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 Drop pod rites of teleportation shenanigans

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Thor665
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doomseer11b
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PostSubject: Drop pod rites of teleportation shenanigans    Drop pod rites of teleportation shenanigans  I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 17 2015, 16:14

So a buddy of mine is trying to pull some shenanigans. Not sure if it is or isn't, so I figured I would consult the oracles Razz. This is a post he put on another website. Lemme know what you guys think.




Oh, Rites of Teleportation. Why couldn’t you have been written clearer? Why would your words be so vague? Why? So we can abuse the hell out of it!

I’ve seen this argument before. Not many threads ever come up with a clear cut answer, but I’m here to put that to bed for good. The question is, "can a drop pod full of Grey Knights still use the Rites of Teleportation rule?" Well let’s find out.

For those of you who are unfamiliar, Rites of Teleportation is a Command Benefit for the Nemesis Strike Force Detachment located on page 94 of Codex: Grey Knights. It reads as follows.

Rites of Teleportation: “Instead of making Reserve Rolls from the start of your turn two, you can make Reserve Rolls for any unit in this Detachment that is placed in Deep Strike Reserve from the start of your turn one. These units will arrive from Deep Strike Reserve on turn one on the roll of 3+. In addition, all units from this Detachment can both Run and Shoot, in any order, in the same turn that they arrive from Deep Strike Reserve.”

Notice the rules never state “arrive by deep strike” or “only units comprised entirely of models from this detachment”. Rites only refers to “Deep Strike Reserve” and “any unit in this Detachment”. That’s right, “any” unit in this Detachment. Rites doesn’t even require the unit to have the deep strike rule. It opens so many doors. So in order to be targeted by Rites of Teleportation you have to belong to two groups simultaneously;
1) the unit must be in Deep Strike Reserve and
2) The unit must be from the Nemesis Strike Force detachment.

So let’s see. I’ve got my three drop pods full of awesome Purifiers. To get those pods I’ve got to ally with either Space Wolves or Blood Angels and use their fast attack pods. Thank you Battle Brothers for letting me embark. Two of them come in turn one because of Drop Pod Assault. Lucky us. A clearly written rule. So how do I get that third pod on turn one? Drop Pod Assault again.

Drop Pod Assault: “Drop Pods and units embarked upon them must be held in Deep Strike Reserves. At the beginning of your first turn, half your Drop Pods (rounding up) automatically arrive from Reserve. The arrival of remaining Drop Pods is rolled for normally.”

Thank you first sentence! Not only is the drop pod considered to be in Deep Strike Reserve, but now so is the unit that is embarked in it. So now those Purifiers meet both requirements of Rites. They are from the NSF Detachment, and are in Deep Strike Reserve. So how does that non NSF drop pod react to me tugging at my Purifiers with Rites of Teleportation? It wants to be rolled for “normally”. What does “normally” really mean? Let’s ask Warhammer 40k: The Rules over on page 135 under Combined Reserve Units.

Combined Reserve Units: “During deployment, when deciding which units are kept as Reserves, you must specify if any of the Independent Characters in Reserve are joining a unit, in which case they must arrive together. Similarly, you must specify if any units in Reserve are embarked upon any Transport vehicles in Reserve, in which case they will arrive together. In either case, when making a Reserve Roll (see below) for a combined unit, roll a single dice for the unit and/or it’s Independent Character/Transport vehicle.”

Did I read that right? The last sentence where it said I can roll for either the unit and/or the Transport vehicle? Then on top of that they MUST arrive together? Gosh, this “normally” thing from DPA is really working in our favor here. Notice again the delicious use of the word “any” when referring to Transport Vehicles in the second sentence.

So when reading it under RAW, my Purifiers are from the NSF Detachment and are in Deep Strike Reserve, so are a legal target for Rites of Teleportation. I can roll for the Purifiers instead of the drop pod and the pod has to come in with them since they are inside it. All of these things are very nice. And that Combined Reserve Units paragraph also opens up opportunities to bring Independent Characters along with deep striking GKs. The only problem is the Independent Character wouldn’t be allowed to run and shoot when he lands with them since he’s not from the NSF Detachment. Put for GKs coming from a drop pod? Absolutely! Remember, Rites never said anything about not being able to run and shoot just because you came from a transport vehicle that isn’t from the NSF. Rites only requires that you do arrive from Deep Strike Reserve and are part of the Detachment.

So please ladies and gents, feel free to Pod in, shoot, and run for cover turn one all you wish. I don’t write the rules, but I will read them.

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The_Burning_Eye
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PostSubject: Re: Drop pod rites of teleportation shenanigans    Drop pod rites of teleportation shenanigans  I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 17 2015, 16:23

Erm, don't you have to have taken a transport as a dedicated transport in order to start the game embarked on it? Or in other words, none of the grey knight units can embark on pods taken from a different codex?

I may be thinking 6th, so please correct me if I'm wrong!

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Drop pod rites of teleportation shenanigans    Drop pod rites of teleportation shenanigans  I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 17 2015, 16:30

@The_Burning_Eye wrote:
Erm, don't you have to have taken a transport as a dedicated transport in order to start the game embarked on it? Or in other words, none of the grey knight units can embark on pods taken from a different codex?

I may be thinking 6th, so please correct me if I'm wrong!

No, you can get Drop Pods from the Fast Attack section now and these can be embarked on by any unit, including battle brothers, as they are not dedicated transports.

At first glance, this all seems legit but I don't have time at the moment to go over it with a fine tooth comb and by his own admission he's abusing the hell out of the rules so don't expect to get away with it too often.

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The_Burning_Eye
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PostSubject: Re: Drop pod rites of teleportation shenanigans    Drop pod rites of teleportation shenanigans  I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 17 2015, 16:40

Ah yes, I see where I'm going wrong, dedicated transports can only embark the unit they were bought for during deployment, but non dedicated units can embark anything.

Damn my brain!

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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: Drop pod rites of teleportation shenanigans    Drop pod rites of teleportation shenanigans  I_icon_minitimeThu Feb 19 2015, 03:57

I don't have my books with me as I'm traveling - but even if I were to accept it as legit that he gets the Purifiers - how does he justify the Drop pod showing up? Even if it works, the Drop Pod would be left behind in reserve - as it is not a 'unit in the detachment' and also is not a dedicated transport, so has no connection to the Purifiers.

And at that point, the Purifiers, functionally, could not be legally placed as they lack the Deep Strike rule regardless of if they were able to legally be placed in Deep Strike Reserve - thus making it impossible to place them and also severing them from their connection to the Drop Pod, still allowing it to arrive per normal Deep Strike Reserves, albeit now empty.

I'm pretty sure the game implodes somewhere in there.

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Ispa
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PostSubject: Re: Drop pod rites of teleportation shenanigans    Drop pod rites of teleportation shenanigans  I_icon_minitimeThu Feb 19 2015, 04:46

@Thor665 wrote:

I'm pretty sure the game implodes somewhere in there.

lol!

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Mushkilla
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PostSubject: Re: Drop pod rites of teleportation shenanigans    Drop pod rites of teleportation shenanigans  I_icon_minitimeThu Feb 19 2015, 07:05

The drop pod comes on turn 1 as per the drop pod rules (half the drop pods rounding up come in turn 1, if he only has one, then it comes in turn 1). The purifiers can be embarked in it as it is purchased from the fast attack section and not a dedicated transport (the same way vets can be embarked in a valkery in reserve). As they were placed in deesptrike reserve they will benefit from the run move before/after shooting that the rule gives.

It's all very cheesy but it's legit. Not sure about making other pods come in turn 1, that seems strenuous, also unnecessary. Cleansing flame is warp charge 2 so you need 5-6 dice to get it off reliably, so more than 1 drop pod containing two 5 man combat squads of purifiers casting two cleansing flames is going to need 10-12 warp charges, that's already a big chunk out of your dice.

However it's not all doom and gloom. Two things GK players often forget. The Rites of teleportation happens in the shooting phase, so he won't be able to use the run move to get more of your units in range of cleansing flame as it is cast in the psychic phase. Secondly and this is the killer, cleansing flame is a nova and is resolved like a shooting attack meaning like shooting attack it can't kill models outside its max range (so no killing things more than 9" away). This makes it a lot less effective, as sure it's causing 2d6 S5 AP4 ignore cover hits on each unit, but if only 2 models of that unit are in range, it can only kill two (regardless of how many wounds it actually inflicted). If I was a betting man, I would say your opponent was unaware of this limitation.

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PostSubject: Re: Drop pod rites of teleportation shenanigans    Drop pod rites of teleportation shenanigans  I_icon_minitimeThu Feb 19 2015, 09:48

I think it's legit, although hardly cheesy. Sure, you get a decent alpha strike, but as with most alpha strikes, you better make sure you clean up, or your precious Armour 3+ models will just stand there, ripe for the picking.
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PostSubject: Re: Drop pod rites of teleportation shenanigans    Drop pod rites of teleportation shenanigans  I_icon_minitimeThu Feb 19 2015, 20:04

Is that the ruling verbatim because my GK friend asked the same thing a several weeks ago and we determined that it was units with the Grey Knight Faction may do so only. An Imperium allied Drop Pod (Wolves, BA, etc) transporting a GK unit is not GK Faction as a whole.

And Thor raised an excellent point about the difference in the wording; starting in Deep Strike reserve is not the same as arriving via Deep Strike....when one does not deep strike.

What is that meme? "One does not simply.....Deep Strike" tongue

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PostSubject: Re: Drop pod rites of teleportation shenanigans    Drop pod rites of teleportation shenanigans  I_icon_minitimeFri Feb 20 2015, 00:56

Thank you guys for all the responses. And thank you mush as always for the enlightenment. I will inform him promptly. I really need to branch out from dark Eldar. Know thy enemy right?

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PostSubject: Re: Drop pod rites of teleportation shenanigans    Drop pod rites of teleportation shenanigans  I_icon_minitime

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