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 Finishing a 1500pt list

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The Shredder
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The Shredder

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PostSubject: Finishing a 1500pt list   Finishing a 1500pt list I_icon_minitimeFri Feb 06 2015, 10:46

I have a 1500pt list, but I'm trying to decide how to complete it.

Here's the base list (just missing an HQ and accompanying unit)

DE CAD:
5 Warriors w/ Baster, Venom w/ Splinter Cannon
5 Warriors w/ Baster, Venom w/ Splinter Cannon
5 Warriors w/ Baster, Venom w/ Splinter Cannon
5 Warriors w/ Baster, Venom w/ Splinter Cannon
5 Warriors w/ Baster, Raider w/ Dark Lance
5 Warriors w/ Baster, Raider w/ Dark Lance
Razorwing Jetfighter w/ Dark Lances
5 Scourges w/ 4x Haywire Blaster
9 Reaver Jetbikes w/ 3 Cluster Caltrops
Ravager w/ 3x Dark Lance

Anyway, the first possibility is:
Haemonculus w/ Scissorhands, Hexrifle and Parasite's Kiss
5 Wracks w/ Ossefactor, Raider w/ Disintegrator
(this would be a primarily backfield unit - aiming to snipe away with Hexrifle and Ossefactor, but can also go into melee to finish off depleted units).

The second possibility is:
Archon w/ Clone Field, Blaster, Haywire Grenades, Parasite's Kiss
Court of the Archon - 2x Medusae, Raider w/ Dark Lance
(In this case, the Archon would go with one of the Raider warrior squads and try to make use of his blaster.)

So, does one of these look better than the other? Also, any other thoughts or suggestions on the list in general?

EDIT: There's now a third possibility, suggested by Azdrubael, which is to add DA. So, I could remove the bikes and HQs to get this list:

DA
Haemonculus w/ WWP, Scissorhands, Sindriq's Sump and Vexator Mask
Chronos w/ Spirit robe
Talos w/ Heat Lance, Ichor Injector

CAD
Lhamaean
5 Warriors w/ Baster, Venom w/ Splinter Cannon
5 Warriors w/ Baster, Venom w/ Splinter Cannon
5 Warriors w/ Baster, Venom w/ Splinter Cannon
5 Warriors w/ Baster, Venom w/ Splinter Cannon
5 Warriors w/ Baster, Raider w/ Dark Lance
5 Warriors w/ Baster, Raider w/ Dark Lance
Razorwing Jetfighter w/ Dark Lances
5 Scourges w/ 4x Haywire Blaster
Ravager w/ 3x Dark Lance


Last edited by The Shredder on Fri Feb 06 2015, 20:03; edited 1 time in total
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Razorfate
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PostSubject: Re: Finishing a 1500pt list   Finishing a 1500pt list I_icon_minitimeFri Feb 06 2015, 11:18

I would suggest to split up the reaver jet bikes into 3 3-man squads. But this can only be made if you bring more than one combined arms detachment. If your meta does not prohbit 2 combined arrm detachment, you will only need 2 hqs as you already have more than 4 troop choices.
Court of the archon unit can provide you a cheap HQ choice. What is more, you can deplıy Archon wtih them as you mentioned in your post.
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Finishing a 1500pt list   Finishing a 1500pt list I_icon_minitimeFri Feb 06 2015, 12:21

I'm not sure about splitting up the Reavers. It seems like a bad idea for a few reasons:

1) If I use 3-man squads, then every single casualty will force a morale test on Ld8. With my 9-man squad, they have to kill 3 guys to force a morale test.

2) With 3-man squads, my opponents only need to kill 3 Reavers to get rid of a set of Cluster Caltrops. But, with a larger squad, I can generally force them to kill 4-5 models before they can even reach my caltrop-carrying Reavers.

3) I'm not sure what 3-man squads will accomplish. With my large squad, it's the caltrops that do all the heavy-lifting and which make them a threat. With just one set. I'm dubious as to how much damage a 3-man squad will do. I guess I could pile multiple reavers into the same combat, but that then raises the question of why I don't just use a single squad. tongue

The other aspect is that a larger squad looks more threatening and so tends to be a better distraction.
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Razorfate
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PostSubject: Re: Finishing a 1500pt list   Finishing a 1500pt list I_icon_minitimeFri Feb 06 2015, 18:26

I am not very experienced in dark eldar style since I starter to play them only this year. I suggested to split up the readers because:
1. Msu style lists works in favor of our strengths and weaknesses. You can sacrifice a 3 man squad to hold a much bigger threat. And you can do this 3 times if needed.
2. Any opponent can kill 3 reavers without much effort in competetive games. Waveserpents. Thunderfire cannons, etc are two examples. A wave serpent (150ish pts) can kill 9 man reaver squad (199 pts)or force athem a ld test. If you bring 3 man squad then the same wave serpent can kill only 1/3 of its point cost in 1 shooting phase, thus reduces its eficiency.
3. You can score or contest 3 objectives each turn instead of 1.
4. Readers are optimised to kill backfield units such as devastators, firewarriors and such. 3 is optimum for 2 turn fights while 9 is overkill.
5. 3 man squads are very easy to hide from LOS.

All that I say above is meaningless if you build your army around reavers like Mushkilla does or if this is the style you want to play.
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Azdrubael
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PostSubject: Re: Finishing a 1500pt list   Finishing a 1500pt list I_icon_minitimeFri Feb 06 2015, 19:15

Quote :
Ravager w/ 3x Dark Lance
This is the part i dont like, why only 1? If you want to bring to the table what Ravagers bring - you need at least 2.

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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Finishing a 1500pt list   Finishing a 1500pt list I_icon_minitimeFri Feb 06 2015, 19:20

@Azdrubael wrote:
Quote :
Ravager w/ 3x Dark Lance
This is the part i dont like, why only 1? If you want to  bring to the table what Ravagers bring - you need at least 2.

Because I only own 1 Ravager Sad
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Azdrubael
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PostSubject: Re: Finishing a 1500pt list   Finishing a 1500pt list I_icon_minitimeFri Feb 06 2015, 19:28

Quote :
Because I only own 1 Ravager Sad
Oh thats sad...when i look at every list now im trying to push Dark Artisan there...can you?

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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Finishing a 1500pt list   Finishing a 1500pt list I_icon_minitimeFri Feb 06 2015, 19:34

@Azdrubael wrote:
Oh thats sad...when i look at every list now im trying to push Dark Artisan there...can you?

I could, but I was trying to make a list that used a lot of small, cheap units - rather than using any big death-star units (ideally, I'd exchange something for a second Ravager, for redundancy purposes, but that will obviously have to wait).

I was also trying to make a list without coven units for a change. Wink

Out of interest though, what would you take out to add in Dark Artisan? I could replace my Warlord and his unit with a Lhamaren, but I don't know what else to remove.

EDIT: Actually, what if I took the Reavers out as well for DA? Would that work, do you think?

That would give me:

DA
Haemonculus w/ WWP, Scissorhands, Sindriq's Sump and Vexator Mask
Chronos w/ Spirit robe
Talos w/ Heat Lance, Ichor Injector

CAD
Lhamaean
5 Warriors w/ Baster, Venom w/ Splinter Cannon
5 Warriors w/ Baster, Venom w/ Splinter Cannon
5 Warriors w/ Baster, Venom w/ Splinter Cannon
5 Warriors w/ Baster, Venom w/ Splinter Cannon
5 Warriors w/ Baster, Raider w/ Dark Lance
5 Warriors w/ Baster, Raider w/ Dark Lance
Razorwing Jetfighter w/ Dark Lances
5 Scourges w/ 4x Haywire Blaster
Ravager w/ 3x Dark Lance

Does that look better?
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Razorfate
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PostSubject: Re: Finishing a 1500pt list   Finishing a 1500pt list I_icon_minitimeFri Feb 06 2015, 21:54

I would try haywire blaster for Talos for range purposes.
Also i would recommend to use night shields for the lone ravager.
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Finishing a 1500pt list   Finishing a 1500pt list I_icon_minitimeFri Feb 06 2015, 23:02

@Razorfate wrote:
I would try haywire blaster for Talos for range purposes.

Thing is, the unit is deploying by WWP, so range shouldn't be an issue.

And, after that, I'm hoping that my ~400pt unit will be doing something more productive than stripping 1hp per turn from a vehicle. Wink

I think Haywire Blasters would be more useful on something like the Corpsethief - where there are 5 of them footslogging up the field.

@Razorfate wrote:
I am not very experienced in dark eldar style since I starter to play them only this year. I suggested to split up the readers because:
1. Msu style lists works in favor of our strengths and weaknesses. You can sacrifice a 3 man squad to hold a much bigger threat. And you can do this 3 times if needed.

But that only holds true if said squad can actually delay the big threat. And, I don't see 3 Reavers doing that.

@Razorfate wrote:

2. Any opponent can kill 3 reavers without much effort in competetive games. Waveserpents. Thunderfire cannons, etc are two examples. A wave serpent (150ish pts) can kill 9 man reaver squad (199 pts)or force athem a ld test. If you bring 3 man squad then the same wave serpent can kill only 1/3 of its point cost in 1 shooting phase, thus reduces its eficiency.

I'm pretty sure a WS will struggle to kill 9 reavers in a single turn.

Regardless though, if said WS is shooting my 16pt jetbikes and not my 60-65pt vehicles, I'll be a happy man. Very Happy

@Razorfate wrote:

3. You can score or contest 3 objectives each turn instead of 1.

True, but I already have 12 Objective Secured units in my list - and 6 of those are fast skimmers. Scoring multiple objectives really shouldn't be an issue.

@Razorfate wrote:

4. Readers are optimised to kill backfield units such as devastators, firewarriors and such. 3 is optimum for 2 turn fights while 9 is overkill.

Ah, perhaps we're talking at cross-purposes then. See, if my Reavers get to the backfield, they should count themselves very lucky indeed. Usually I throw them into a particularly tough target and try to rend it to death with a ton of rending HoW hits.

@Razorfate wrote:

5. 3 man squads are very easy to hide from LOS.

Indeed, but I actually use them the other way round - I hide my vehicles behind them.

@Razorfate wrote:

All that I say above is meaningless if you build your army around reavers like Mushkilla does or if this is the style you want to play.

Well, the thing is, I often use them as a big distraction. With T4, 3+ jink and FNP they can absorb quite a bit of firepower. If my opponent dedicates enough firepower to wipe them out, then that's a lot of firepower not targetting my vehicles. If my opponent doesn't target them (or fails to kill them), then there are 3d6 S6 rending hits coming his way.

I do appreciate your advice regarding the Reavers, but I think we have very different tactics in mind for them.
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