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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Soul Trap   Soul Trap I_icon_minitimeSat Jan 03 2015, 15:27

Hi everyone!

Quick question regarding soul traps:
You get +1s for every wound in a challenge.. do overkill wounds that fall onto the unit count toward this as well?

Sorry for the newbie question!

Thanks!
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Soul Trap   Soul Trap I_icon_minitimeSat Jan 03 2015, 15:43

If the wound is applied to an enemy character, then maybe. Otherwise, no.
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PostSubject: Re: Soul Trap   Soul Trap I_icon_minitimeSun Jan 04 2015, 10:11

Would you be able to explain why not?

As far as logic tells me, a wound caused in a challenge is still a wound caused in a challenge, regardless of whether it bleeds over into the unit after the challenger has died.

Again, sorry to be the new dude with the stupid questions!
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PostSubject: Re: Soul Trap   Soul Trap I_icon_minitimeSun Jan 04 2015, 11:39

The wording says for each unsaved wound in a challenge - so yes, kill the sarge with 3 unsaved wounds and you get +3S despite those wounds overflowing - IMO

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Klaivex Charondyr
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PostSubject: Re: Soul Trap   Soul Trap I_icon_minitimeSun Jan 04 2015, 12:15

actual wording:

Quote :
...for each unsaved Wound it inflicts in a challenge on an enemy character.

The spill over wounds are not inflicted on an enemy character (unless they spill over on another character)
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PostSubject: Re: Soul Trap   Soul Trap I_icon_minitimeSun Jan 04 2015, 13:24

But they are inflicted on an enemy character - the character then dies and they are resolved against the unit

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PostSubject: Re: Soul Trap   Soul Trap I_icon_minitimeSun Jan 04 2015, 13:27

You can only inflict one unsaved wound on the character, as there is no majority armor save and you have to roll wounds one by one.
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PostSubject: Re: Soul Trap   Soul Trap I_icon_minitimeSun Jan 04 2015, 14:14

As mentioned, the rule for Soul Trap specifically states that you gain +1S for each unsaved Wound inflicted in a challenge against a character.

The challenge rules for when a combatant is slain in a challenge state: "If a character that is involved in a challenge slays his opponent, each excess Wound inflicted by the victor is then allocated, one at a time, to the next nearest enemy model that is locked in the combat."

For there to be excess Wounds to inflict on the unit, those wounds have to have not been unsaved. If they were unsaved, there wouldn't be any excess to spill over. So, as has been said, you'll only get the +1S if the excess wounds get assigned to another character.

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PostSubject: Re: Soul Trap   Soul Trap I_icon_minitimeSun Jan 04 2015, 17:30

Fair enough, I stand corrected

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PostSubject: Re: Soul Trap   Soul Trap I_icon_minitimeSun Jan 04 2015, 21:31

Sorry everyone, I read the paragraph wrong originally..
I thought, for some reason, it said "or against an enemy character".

This being the case, how often would you see an enemy character accept a challenge from an archon? Not often?
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PostSubject: Re: Soul Trap   Soul Trap I_icon_minitimeMon Jan 05 2015, 14:34

It works pretty well with an agoniser and you manage to find a wraithlord wandering as its a character mc, just remember solo characters cannot deny challenges

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PostSubject: Re: Soul Trap   Soul Trap I_icon_minitimeMon Jan 05 2015, 21:41

@Taffy10 wrote:
It works pretty well with an agoniser and you manage to find a wraithlord wandering as its a character mc, just remember solo characters cannot deny challenges

Doesn't a wraithlord have a 2+ armour?
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Klaivex Charondyr
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PostSubject: Re: Soul Trap   Soul Trap I_icon_minitimeMon Jan 05 2015, 22:21

3+

But he is hardly in use. Wraithknight is way better and not a Character.
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PostSubject: Re: Soul Trap   Soul Trap I_icon_minitimeMon Jan 05 2015, 22:23

Probably not often unless they think they can win. Even if they deny though, they sacrifice their own attacks, allowing the Archon to slice through the rest of the squad.
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PostSubject: Re: Soul Trap   Soul Trap I_icon_minitimeMon Jan 05 2015, 22:33

@Klaivex Charondyr wrote:
3+

But he is hardly in use. Wraithknight is way better and not a Character.
So if you were lucky enough to score a wound on him with huskblade, he'd be dead instantly (what i mean to ask is: are they immune to instant death?)


@Jimsolo wrote:
Probably not often unless they think they can win. Even if they deny though, they sacrifice their own attacks, allowing the Archon to slice through the rest of the squad.
Ah, so the soul trap is more of a double edged sword. One function is to buff the character, and the other is to play psychological warfare in making the player decide whether it's worth taking the chance of having to deal with a S7 Archon...
Deliciously evil.
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PostSubject: Re: Soul Trap   Soul Trap I_icon_minitimeMon Jan 05 2015, 22:40


Quote :
So if you were lucky enough to score a wound on him with huskblade, he'd be dead instantly (what i mean to ask is: are they immune to instant death?)

No they are not.

Quote :

Ah, so the soul trap is more of a double edged sword. One function is to buff the character, and the other is to play psychological warfare in making the player decide whether it's worth taking the chance of having to deal with a S7 Archon...
Deliciously evil.

Not really. There are only 2 types of leaders. The types that kill the Archon and will accept and the types who back out. Since wounds spill over into the unit anyways there is no reason at all to accept.
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PostSubject: Re: Soul Trap   Soul Trap I_icon_minitimeMon Jan 05 2015, 22:51

But if you decline the challenge, then you may not attack at all, correct? I have no issue with forcing an enemy character to twiddle their thumbs while their unit dies around them. Combined with the armour of misery, they are most likely running away.
Unless my brain isn't braining right today?
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PostSubject: Re: Soul Trap   Soul Trap I_icon_minitimeMon Jan 05 2015, 23:26

I guess that hurts the imperial guard pretty hard that they lose out another WS3 S3 attack...

Everyone kitted out for combat (which would be indeed a valuable target if they would back out) can potentially kill the archon and will accept. Models which decline are not useful in that combat phase anyways.
I think the only army in the entire game which actually powers up the archon is CSM. Because they HAVE to issue challenges.
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PostSubject: Re: Soul Trap   Soul Trap I_icon_minitimeMon Jan 05 2015, 23:34

Hmm, fair call.
Out of curiosity, are CSMin 40k as overpowered as WoC in fantasy?
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Soul Trap   Soul Trap I_icon_minitimeTue Jan 06 2015, 00:07

Lol, no.
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PostSubject: Re: Soul Trap   Soul Trap I_icon_minitimeTue Jan 06 2015, 00:10

phew.

I have a fundamental hatred for anything chaos Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Soul Trap   Soul Trap I_icon_minitimeTue Jan 06 2015, 01:47

Tzeentch daemons are what we really need to avoid, given that we have (without allies) virtually no defense against them.
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PostSubject: Re: Soul Trap   Soul Trap I_icon_minitimeTue Jan 06 2015, 01:58

They are immune to being shot at? We seem to alot of things to shoot Very Happy
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Soul Trap   Soul Trap I_icon_minitimeTue Jan 06 2015, 05:46

Can't shoot down a psychic attack.
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PostSubject: Re: Soul Trap   Soul Trap I_icon_minitimeTue Jan 06 2015, 05:47

How do you rate the adamantium will/perils of the warp helmet, then?
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