Why do people like the Armour of Misery?

Basically the title.

I just can't see the appeal of the Armour of Misery and I'm curious as to why so many people seem to like it.

It's cheap, I guess, but -2Ld seems like a downside more than a benefit. Maybe if we had some pinning weapons, but I don't believe we have a single one. In combat it just seems counter-intuitive.

"Aha! I made your unit flee! Now you can... shot my unit in your turn. Oh."

Being Initiative 7, how often have your opponent actually succeeded in running away without being swept?

@Sigmaril wrote:

Being Initiative 7, how often have your opponent actually succeeded in running away without being swept?

I don't understand how that relates to my point.

The 4+ armour with 6++ invul is nice too, helps survive some shots before she gets into combat...

@The Shredder wrote:

@Sigmaril wrote:

Being Initiative 7, how often have your opponent actually succeeded in running away without being swept?

I don't understand how that relates to my point.

Because its better for you if they focus on your 2+ invul save hq than if they focus on everything else? Because if you keep your hq cheap whatever unit he ran down probably cost as much as he did?

Also, allies. Psychic shriek + armor of misery = fun!

@The Shredder wrote:

@Sigmaril wrote:

Being Initiative 7, how often have your opponent actually succeeded in running away without being swept?

I don't understand how that relates to my point.

I missed your point. I thought you meant that the running unit would turn around and shoot. Giving it a bit more though, I realize that wasn't what you meant at all Sorry...

Ever broken a riptide ? )

My entire list is built around Ld shenanigans.  Coven formations, Coven units with Fear, allies with Pinning weapons, Farseers with Hallucination, Dominate, and Psychic Shriek, Tank Shocks, and Torment Launchers (if I'm feeling saucy) all work nicely together, and all benefit from the Armor of Misery.

https://www.thedarkcity.net/t10971-the-freakshow-an-army-idea

If I'm playing a game big enough for all three armies to have room (usually at 1500 or more), it can really have an impact.

I'm being drawn into trying to make a list based solely on terror for fun. Phantasm grenade launchers, torment grenades, coven stuff, armour of upset just to see if its possible to just cause an army to flee rather than shoot them to death. Its a fun little artifact but really its clearly not often going to be a competitive choice!

@ShadowcatX wrote:

Because its better for you if they focus on your 2+ invul save hq than if they focus on everything else?

Well, surely it depends what they're using?

e.g. IG aren't going to be using their buckets of lasguns on your transports, but I'm sure they'd be happy to fire them at your Archon. Same goes for a lot of small-arms fire, I'd imagine.

@ShadowcatX wrote:

Because if you keep your hq cheap whatever unit he ran down probably cost as much as he did?

What about his squad though? Or, do you take Archons alone?

@Sigmaril wrote:

@The Shredder wrote:

@Sigmaril wrote:

Being Initiative 7, how often have your opponent actually succeeded in running away without being swept?

I don't understand how that relates to my point.

I missed your point. I thought you meant that the running unit would turn around and shoot. Giving it a bit more though, I realize that wasn't what you meant at all Sorry...

No worries.

@Grub wrote:

I'm being drawn into trying to make a list based solely on terror for fun. Phantasm grenade launchers, torment grenades,

You must not face many marine armies.

Oh no I really do Its a challenge that I will have to organise with some of my ork/guard/tau/eldar etc friends. The fact that they don't effect anything with ATSKNF really does spoil the fun!

Since Succubi aren't actually invincible, a Fear test at -2 so that they hit her on 5's instead of 4's is nothing to turn up your nose at. Unless it's Space Meringues or anything with Fearless, sure, but those are the breaks. And even then, a 4+ armour save means that getting shot by a bolter isn't an automatic wound; at least you get to roll some dice, instead of just stand there! Very reasonable at 15 points!

@Barking Agatha wrote:

Since Succubi aren't actually invincible, a Fear test at -2 so that they hit her on 5's instead of 4's is nothing to turn up your nose at. Unless it's Space Meringues or anything with Fearless, sure, but those are the breaks.

Unfortunately, Space Marines or Fearless stuff is all I seem to face.

Frankly, you could replace every reference to Fear in my book with swears, and I wouldn't notice the difference.

@Barking Agatha wrote:

And even then, a 4+ armour save means that getting shot by a bolter isn't an automatic wound; at least you get to roll some dice, instead of just stand there! Very reasonable at 15 points!

Fair enough.

Though, is that really enough to save her if she ends up in the open?

I'm in the camp of using it simply in a fun list. I.e. the terror tactic ideas people have mentioned above, though without any of the craft world nonsense Against marines it will be fairly worthless but dropping it and archangel of pain into a tau gun line can be very satisfying with that -4 leadership and phantasm and torment grenades flying into nearby squads.

IMO having Grotesques or Incubi around serves as a better armor than that. If they can shoot down your meat wall then this 4+ wouldn't do much.

I like putting it on my haemunculus with my grotesques. If I want my grotesques to live, he can be quasi tanky with 4+ Armor, 6+ invul and 5+ FnP!

I think the big issue is the opportunity cost. I'd rather give an Archon the Helm of Spite. Or even Parasite's Kiss. If PGL's and Torments weren't horrible, maybe I'd run the Armor? But those things are so bad that it's hard to justify.

If you aren't running a list that it fits into, it'll be a waste of points. The Helm is probably the best utilitarian relic, especially for tourneys. That being said, if you run a list based around Ld shenanigans (and I do) then it's an invaluable asset.

@django_unchained wrote:

I like putting it on my haemunculus with my grotesques. If I want my grotesques to live, he can be quasi tanky with 4+ Armor, 6+ invul and 5+ FnP!

You know, I don't think I even considered giving the armour to a Haemonculus. I just automatically assume they'll have the Parasite's Kiss.

@Izathel wrote:

I think the big issue is the opportunity cost.  I'd rather give an Archon the Helm of Spite.  Or even Parasite's Kiss.  If PGL's and Torments weren't horrible, maybe I'd run the Armor?  But those things are so bad that it's hard to justify.

I really hate that they made units with ATSKNF immune to those weapons.

You've found the Kiss useful, Shredder?

@Jimsolo wrote:

You've found the Kiss useful, Shredder?

Depends what you mean.

It doesn't have the utility of the Helm of Spite (IMO our best artefact), but on the other hand it's 1/5 of the cost of said Helm.

For its cost, I think it's a nice addition to a character, and a good way to add a bit of flavour without breaking the bank. My only complaint is that it's poison 2+, rather than Fleshbane.

But, maybe I'm just a sucker for stuff that lets my characters regain wounds.

Other than striking a haemunculus with that poison-negating artefact, what is the difference between poison 2+ and fleshbane?

@Sigmaril wrote:

Other than striking a haemunculus with that poison-negating artefact, what is the difference between poison 2+ and fleshbane?

I believe poison doesn't work on some of the big MCs (might be Super Heavy ones or something like that, I'd have to check), but Fleshbane does.

In most 'normal' games though, it won't make a difference.

Okay. I think the odds of running into that Haemunculus I mentioned is probably a bit higher. At least, I have never met someone who owned a gargantuan creature

I run into gargs occasionally. In most cases actually, I prefer poison, since it can give you rerolls to wound more often than you will run into gargs.

Side note: I miss old agonizers. They still wounded Transcendent C'Tan on a 4+.