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 Dark Artisan Troubles

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SCP Yeeman
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PostSubject: Dark Artisan Troubles   Dark Artisan Troubles I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 14 2014, 17:15

I have played a few games with the Dark Artisan Formation and have had mild success. I equip the Talos with a Heat Lance for pinpoint Melta, the Cronos with Probe (duh!), and the Haemon with the Sump and Portal. They have dropped down flamed or melta'd things as needed and usually grab a squad or something in melee Turn 3. However, Turns 4-7 they seem to do almost nothing.

People avoid the unit like a plague, because it is so ridiculously hard to kill. For me a unit that costs 365pts needs to do more. I don't think I am dropping them in the wrong place, or have a terrible set up with them. The armies I have been playing have been rather fast (Eldar, Screamerstar, FMCs).

The Formation performs for a turn or two but for the point cost, I feel like I need more from it. Anyone running into the same thing? Possible things I am missing? Appreciate any and all comments.
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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Artisan Troubles   Dark Artisan Troubles I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 14 2014, 17:47

I'll be honest - it sounds like a deployment decision error.

Even if your enemies are fast enough to just utterly leave an empty zone of a 20" or so null bubble around the unit you should still be able to block them in with the rest of your army and/or deny them objectives by doing so - no?

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Izathel
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Artisan Troubles   Dark Artisan Troubles I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 14 2014, 20:21

I think that's correct. If your nearly 400 point unit kills literally nothing but wins the game, wasn't it worth it?

In objective games, which the vast majority are, remember to deploy objectives correctly. The tighter the grouping, the better for you. If people are terrified of your unit, you basically have already won the game. And you are apparently never giving up Slay The Warlord, so that's another free victory point.
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Evil Space Elves
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Artisan Troubles   Dark Artisan Troubles I_icon_minitimeMon Dec 15 2014, 04:19

Are you able to use them to corral your opponent's forces towards your main forces using this formation? Running from big scary units is a viable tactic that any good opponent will use, but with our mobility you should be able to give them a series of bad options and directions to move into (splinter cannons/blasters and dark lances). You are at least denying them Slay the Warlord while earning Linebreaker if the unit is ignored and avoided.

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SCP Yeeman
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Artisan Troubles   Dark Artisan Troubles I_icon_minitimeMon Dec 15 2014, 05:14

My opponents do come closer to my main force, yes. Denying them Warlord, and scoring Linebreaker and most likely 1 other objective is nice. I guess for me, I want them to kill more things or take a more active role in the army.

I have deployed them a couple of times to deal with things that I otherwise could not and they were left in the wind for the rest of the battle. Maybe I just have higher hopes or bigger aspirations for the unit then what they will give me.

I also have not really found a list I am completely happy with but I want the Dark Artisan to be a mainstay. But with it costing so many points, I am leaning towards using the points for 2 units rather than the one albeit if they fill a different gap in my army.
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clever handle
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Artisan Troubles   Dark Artisan Troubles I_icon_minitimeMon Dec 15 2014, 19:40

Deploy the unit centrally, keep them away from walkers, TH:SS terminators, or anything with a significant quantity of force weapons & let them feast on anything else. By keeping them in the middle of the table, you're reliably able to threaten about a 24" bubble (6"+6" to either side plus unit width). Watch as your opponent's forces break around this spearhead, allowing you to focus the rest of your fast army on one flank or the other.

I've used the formation in a couple of battles now & can tell you that it has always performed wonderfully - eating more than one unit of berserkers (AoBF lord included), CC geared tyranid warriors, tyranid monstrous creatures, and templar crusader squads (just not that damned unkillable chaptermaster!)

I would suggest keeping the unit cheap & cheerful - I drop the ichor injector on the Talos and the spirit probe on the cronos & that is it. No augmented shooting, no upgrades on the haemonculus - I loath deathstars.
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SCP Yeeman
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Artisan Troubles   Dark Artisan Troubles I_icon_minitimeMon Dec 15 2014, 22:42

I cant see Walkers, outside of Super Heavy being a problem, the Talos is faster and will kill them rather reliably with WS 6 and 4 base attacks. Not to mention even the Cronos can do something. Termies could be a problem, but having the 4+ FnP rerolling the 1s is nice to have and grants them a good amount of defense along with only having them wound on 3s instead of 2s.

I honestly think I just need to play with them more and hopefully against a wider range of opponents.

I put the Heat Lance on so I can get a pinpoint melta and the Sump on there so I have a range of things from CC 4+ Poison to regaining wounds with my Warlord. For 10 pts the thing is a steal.
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clever handle
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Artisan Troubles   Dark Artisan Troubles I_icon_minitimeMon Dec 15 2014, 23:39

Dreadnought w/ 3 attacks minimum (assuming it has a DCCW), defilers with 4-6, furiouso's w/ 4-base and armor 13...

Talos at S7 is fishing for 5's & 6's, where the dreadnought is wounding on 2's.

I just think that's a bad news situation... but then again, I'm the guy that puts a khornate daemon prince into combat with a riptide... and loses...
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Izathel
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Artisan Troubles   Dark Artisan Troubles I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 18 2014, 22:58

I think the real issue there is that those 5s and 6s mostly go without saves. The incoming 2s get saved more than half of the time even assuming an AP3 weapon.
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Hellstrom
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Artisan Troubles   Dark Artisan Troubles I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 18 2014, 23:04

Also .. Smash attack from Cronos and Talos. That's 2 str 10 hits at AP2. Going to hurt a vehicle. Not saying a dread is the best target, but I'd still expect to win the fight.
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sweetbacon
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Artisan Troubles   Dark Artisan Troubles I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 18 2014, 23:52

While not an ideal target for the Talos and Cronos, Dreads aren't super worrisome either, due to Smash (both) or 4-5 Strength 7 attacks (Talos). Unless it is one of those super CC-oriented Dreads like the Murderfang which can have an insane number of attacks on the charge, or a Dread that has a 3++ to negate any damage. Overall, though, I'm not super worried about Walkers if I take DA or Corpsethief. Grots are the Coven unit with the most to fear from Walkers.
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