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 Scalpel formation - gearing up the Wracks

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Sizzly
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PostSubject: Scalpel formation - gearing up the Wracks   Scalpel formation - gearing up the Wracks I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 14 2014, 13:06

So I'm looking to add the Scalpel squadron formation to my Kabalite raiding party.

Since the goal is to claim first blood with the component units (two squads of wracks in venoms) does anyone have some thoughts on what to equip them with?

I was thinking hexrifles on the Acothyst and a Liquifier on one squad and an ossifier on the other.

Or should I not pay the points for the special weapons and hope the 24 splinter cannon shots'll do the deed?

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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: Scalpel formation - gearing up the Wracks   Scalpel formation - gearing up the Wracks I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 14 2014, 13:17

I would say the extra little shooting bump is worth it - about 50% of the point of the thing is managing that kill, so you might as well try to assure yourself you get it. The only other reason to even really run the thing is for total null deployment. Pay your points as needed.

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Sizzly
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PostSubject: Re: Scalpel formation - gearing up the Wracks   Scalpel formation - gearing up the Wracks I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 14 2014, 13:25

So any advice on the gear then? Are hexrifles the way to go? Ossifier vs Liquifier? Twisted minds want to know.

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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: Scalpel formation - gearing up the Wracks   Scalpel formation - gearing up the Wracks I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 14 2014, 13:50

I would say choose Hexrifles and Ossefactors or Liquifiers depending on how aggressive you like to be in your DSing. Mixing and matching the two probably isn't worth it.

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fredpower
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PostSubject: Re: Scalpel formation - gearing up the Wracks   Scalpel formation - gearing up the Wracks I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 14 2014, 19:13

i likie to use the ossefactor if you can shoot on units with no cover save is really nice
the liquefier needs a ds to agresive and for me hexrifle is too expencive by the fact you need the character to have it and is not as good as ossefactor.
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Scalpel formation - gearing up the Wracks   Scalpel formation - gearing up the Wracks I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 14 2014, 19:58

I prefer Ossefactors, and don't think Hexrifles are worth the points.

I would go bare bones on the Wracks, with just the ossies. (I might go Liquifier guns in an extremely horde heavy meta.)
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The Red King
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PostSubject: Re: Scalpel formation - gearing up the Wracks   Scalpel formation - gearing up the Wracks I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 14 2014, 19:59

I always ran double scalpel and have all 4 an ossefactor. I don't think they ever failed to get first blood.

On a side note try to find a squad with an ic in it, something less important like a librarian or royal court necron lord. That way if you wipe the squad points or if you kill just enough to get him points.

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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Scalpel formation - gearing up the Wracks   Scalpel formation - gearing up the Wracks I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 14 2014, 22:15

Personally, I'd go for an Ossefactor and an extra splinter cannon on the venom.

Liquifier guns require a far too risky deep strike IMO.

Hexrifles are too expensive, for what amounts to a single extra poison shot (the venoms already have 12 each).


I'm curious to hear how much success people have had with these squads. Do they get first blood often?
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Sizzly
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PostSubject: Re: Scalpel formation - gearing up the Wracks   Scalpel formation - gearing up the Wracks I_icon_minitimeMon Dec 15 2014, 17:04

Alrighty... So I get that adding the acothyst and the hex rifle is pricey. But a 2+ wound? Not too shabby, especially with the same range as the splinter cannons.

So since the goal is to gain first blood with these guys - wouldn't the point cost be appropriate for a little extra punch?

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PostSubject: Re: Scalpel formation - gearing up the Wracks   Scalpel formation - gearing up the Wracks I_icon_minitimeMon Dec 15 2014, 17:09

@Sizzly wrote:
Alrighty...  So I get that adding the acothyst and the hex rifle is pricey.  But a 2+ wound?  Not too shabby, especially with the same range as the splinter cannons.

I don't understand where you're getting "2+ wound" from.

The Hexrifle is a sniper rifle - it wounds on a 4+. So, taking into account BS4, 2/3 of your shots with it are going to miss or fail to wound. I don't see that as even remotely good value.

@Sizzly wrote:
So since the goal is to gain first blood with these guys - wouldn't the point cost be appropriate for a little extra punch?

I don't believe so, no. If 2 Hexrifles are going to mean the difference between you getting first blood and not, then I think the flaw lies elsewhere i your strategy.

I mean, aren't you shooting your target squad with other units first? I thought the point was just to finish them off with the Wracks?
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Sizzly
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PostSubject: Re: Scalpel formation - gearing up the Wracks   Scalpel formation - gearing up the Wracks I_icon_minitimeMon Dec 15 2014, 17:25

Sorry. It's the ossifier that's got flesh bane (2+ wound). My bad.

Well, the way I see it (and this is just me theorizing) is that you have to kill first turn or else you aren't going to get first blood. Since they wracks'll be in their transports and deep striking the kills have to be done with shooting. That's kinda why I'm trying to pack in more guns.

Is this a poor concept? Should I perhaps be looking at a different formation to use with my box o' wracks?

As you can see from my sig line - I don't accrue many victories so I'm trying out new approaches.

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PostSubject: Re: Scalpel formation - gearing up the Wracks   Scalpel formation - gearing up the Wracks I_icon_minitimeMon Dec 15 2014, 17:55

@Sizzly wrote:
Well, the way I see it (and this is just me theorizing) is that you have to kill first turn or else you aren't going to get first blood.  Since they wracks'll be in their transports and deep striking the kills have to be done with shooting.  That's kinda why I'm trying to pack in more guns.

Well, in terms of theorising, here are my thoughts. Make of them what you will.

1) We're not Eldar. We have very little cheese, and can't rely on OP units to pick up the slack. Essentially, we have to be a lot more careful about our unit choices - since we really can't afford much dead weight.

2) In my view, Acothysts and Hexrifles are both dead weight. IG pay 2pts for sniper rifles, and many people still don't think they're worth it. We pay 5 times that, and ours is barely better. Acothysts might be useful if you're putting a character in the squad (and might want to protect him for challenges), but otherwise they're 10pts for an extra attack. So, you basically end up with 40pts of dead weight.

3) The extra shooting you get is negligible. Without the hexrifles, you're putting out 24 poison shots, 2 AP2 Fleshbane shots, plus the secondary damage from the Ossifactors. And, you're basically paying 40pts to go from 24 poison shots to 26. Is that really a worthwhile increase in firepower?

4) I'd much rather spend that 40pts elsewhere in my army - where I'm sure it could buy some more impressive shooting.

5) The thing is, the Wracks only need to finish off a wounded squad. I have the rest of my army to do the initial damage. The Wracks should only be taking over when the target squad has already been depleted to just a few men. And, I just don't think the Hexrifles add enough firepower to make a meaningful difference in this role.

6) There's the rest of the game to think about. Even if you get them, d3 Victory Points won't win the game alone. And, I'd much rather put that 40pts towards more efficient units that will be useful throughout the game, than to squander it just for a minutely better chance at those initial d3 points.

Again, that's just how I look at things. Feel free to disregard this as idle ramblings.

@Sizzly wrote:
Is this a poor concept?  Should I perhaps be looking at a different formation to use with my box o' wracks?  

Well, it might depend on what the rest of your army is like. Though, in general, I believe it's one of the better Wrack formations - the chance of d3 Victory Points for First Blood is very useful.
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