WWP Dark Artisans: know where to land

Used Dark Artisans again last night. Killed a Trygon Prime and tied up a unit of 15 Genestealers for the entire battle, gradually whittling them down. Lost the Cronos on turn 5 due to some lucky Rends from the Genestealers but the Talos and Haem (my Warlord) were unscathed at the end of the battle.

Nice

Nice to see you had succes with them!

I played DA against a tank heavy blood angels in a 1k game. Deployed in the middle of the field, T1. It was a kill point game: my opponent gained 4 VP for destroying them... Yes they were really useful as a fire magnet and really tough, but they awarded too much victory points for my taste. A unit of 3 Talos would have been nearly as tough (the cronos fell first), with 3 TLHWB instead of one, and worth only 1 VP instead of 4.

Used this tonight, and despite getting tied up by a maulerfiend (damn thing passed its daemon save against the overwatch from twin heatlance, which would have blown it up as well (we checked)) it held on for several turns until rescued by a trigon (played a doubles game)

@Count Adhemar wrote:

Used Dark Artisans again last night. Killed a Trygon Prime and tied up a unit of 15 Genestealers for the entire battle, gradually whittling them down. Lost the Cronos on turn 5 due to some lucky Rends from the Genestealers but the Talos and Haem (my Warlord) were unscathed at the end of the battle.

Nice.

What upgrades did you give the squad?

Ha! I must be the only one who has had a DA fail
I haven't played Necrons for a while, and made the mistake of letting some Canoptek Wraiths charged the DA. What was worse, there was a Lord with mindshackle scarabs in the unit. My Talos spent most of the combat attacking his own unit, and the other two didn't manage to dent the wraiths.
The unit definitely has potential though. I'll be fielding it again.

@Plastikente wrote:

Ha! I must be the only one who has had a DA fail  
I haven't played Necrons for a while, and made the mistake of letting some Canoptek Wraiths charged the DA.  What was worse, there was a Lord with mindshackle scarabs in the unit.  My Talos spent most of the combat attacking his own unit, and the other two didn't manage to dent the wraiths.
The unit definitely has potential though.  I'll be fielding it again.

You're not alone: I played DA four times: they made me won the first game, and made me lose the 3 others (bad deployment and/or too many victory points when slain).

@Mononcule wrote:

(bad deployment and/or too many victory points when slain).

How do the VPs work for DA? When we counted, I gave my opponent 4 - 1 for each MC, 1 for the IC and 1 for the warlord.  He replied that because it is 1 unit, it only gives 1 point, +1 for the warlord.  How is anyone else playing it?

@Plastikente wrote:

@Mononcule wrote:

(bad deployment and/or too many victory points when slain).

How do the VPs work for DA? When we counted, I gave my opponent 4 - 1 for each MC, 1 for the IC and 1 for the warlord.  He replied that because it is 1 unit, it only gives 1 point, +1 for the warlord.  How is anyone else playing it?

I'd also like an answer to this.

Also, do you get the VPs one by one, or only when the whole unit is slain?

If the latter, what happens if the Haemonculus is the only model left alive, and he joins another unit?

Da is a unit, since when are each model of a unit granting one vp? I am surprised there could be a discussion

@Aroban wrote:

Da is a unit, since when are each model of a unit granting one vp? I am surprised there could be a discussion

Well, they are a unit, but they're a unit that includes an IC, and 2 MCs that are technically separate but form a unit at the beginning of the game.

I think there's a fair amount of grey area.

@Aroban wrote:

Da is a unit, since when are each model of a unit granting one vp? I am surprised there could be a discussion

I'm also surprised but for a different reason. Combined units are addressed in the Haemonculus Covens book and Dark Artisans are even given as an example!

Quote :

COMBINED UNITS
Some Formations allow you to combine several units together into a single, combined unit. Where
Victory Points are awarded for units that have been completely destroyed, a combined unit awards a
number of Victory Points equal to its constituent number of units if it is completely destroyed. For
example, if the combined unit from a Dark Artisan Formation, was completely destroyed, your
opponent would count as having destroyed 3 units.

@Plastikente wrote:

Ha! I must be the only one who has had a DA fail  
I haven't played Necrons for a while, and made the mistake of letting some Canoptek Wraiths charged the DA.  What was worse, there was a Lord with mindshackle scarabs in the unit.  My Talos spent most of the combat attacking his own unit, and the other two didn't manage to dent the wraiths.
The unit definitely has potential though.  I'll be fielding it again.

That's unfortunate. I tried the DA against Necrons a couple weeks ago and charged it into a unit of wraiths (normally wouldn't, but they were camping the objective I needed), wiping the squad handily. It then drew the ire of 1000+ points of Necron shooting and tanked it all for 2 turns.

@Count Adhemar wrote:

I'm also surprised but for a different reason. Combined units are addressed in the Haemonculus Covens book and Dark Artisans are even given as an example!

Quote :

COMBINED UNITS
Some Formations allow you to combine several units together into a single, combined unit. Where
Victory Points are awarded for units that have been completely destroyed, a combined unit awards a
number of Victory Points equal to its constituent number of units if it is completely destroyed. For
example, if the combined unit from a Dark Artisan Formation, was completely destroyed, your
opponent would count as having destroyed 3 units.

Interesting. How does that apply to the Corpsethief Claw, do you think? Because without the formation you could field 5 Taloi as anything between 2 and 5 separate units.

Also, am I correct in understanding that either formation gives no points until completely destroyed, at which point it gives up all the VPs?

@Plastikente wrote:

Interesting. How does that apply to the Corpsethief Claw, do you think?  Because without the formation you could field 5 Taloi as anything between 2 and 5 separate units.

Well, this is GW we're dealing with, so I'm guessing the answer involves a d6.

@Plastikente wrote:

Also, am I correct in understanding that either formation gives no points until completely destroyed, at which point it gives up all the VPs?

Yep, that's right.

So just make sure the Haemonculus is the last one standing, and then hide him in another unit for the rest of the game.

For the Corpsethief Claw it specifically calls it out as being 1 unit of Talos, "even though this is not normally allowed" under the Restrictions section of the formation.

Indeed. This argument was attempted sometime ago on here but it didn't really hold up. Corpsethief is a single unit that is larger than normally allowed. It is not a combined unit.

Good old GW and their clear, unambiguous rules writing...

Dark Artisan redeemed herself tonight. I tried out the version with WWP and max templates. Turned up on time on Turn 2 and wiped half a squad of Shining Spears, then proceeded to shrug off the remainder of the squad when they charged in my opponent's turn. All in all, the DA soaked the shooting from the Spears, and from a squad of Dire Avengers, a squad of Wraithguard and a squad of rangers for the next 2 turns until the rest of my army had finished tabling my opponent. A few lucky FnP rolls meant that I didn't lose a single model from the DA formation. Definitely going to be a regular in my army lists

Thanks for sharing I'll for sure give them another try.

Awesome avatar btw!

@Mononcule wrote:

Awesome avatar btw!

Thanks. I'd been meaning to model a female Haemie for a while (my army fluff requires a brother and sister pair of Haemonculi, trying to outdo each other with their fleshy creations). When the new plastic model came out, I saw my chance.