WWP Dark Artisans: know where to land

@Hellstrom wrote:

Your Haemy shouldn't have died in 1 shot.  He's Toughness 7 when being shot at whilst in a unit of Toughness 7 average.

Instant death uses models own T-value. General wounding majority's toughness.

How? Pg36 says "Any Wound allocated to a model has the ID special rule if the Strength value of that attack is at least double the Toughness value (after modifiers) of that model."

Well .. after modifiers, it has Toughness 7. Surely?

@Hellstrom wrote:

How?  Pg36 says "Any Wound allocated to a model has the ID special rule if the Strength value of that attack is at least double the Toughness value (after modifiers) of that model."

Well .. after modifiers, it has Toughness 7.  Surely?

Majority Toughness isn't a modifier. At no point does the model actually change its toughness value.

Well that makes my unit considerable harder to use then. Thank you for the info Really can't decide whether the DA is sensible at 1500 points or not.

Keeping the Haemie in base to base with both MCs for LOS wound allocation and giving him a Nightmare Doll can somewhat mitigate Instant Death concerns.

Gonna use this next week, looking forward to it, though I'm taking the panacea perverted rather than the nightmare doll - I'm just looking forward to seeing my opponents realise I'm getting wounds back on my warlord on a 4+

Good idea, please tell us how it went.

About the 1500pts: I tested DA in 850, 1250 and 1500 lists. I prefer them in the smaller one because they are harder to deal with.

@The_Burning_Eye wrote:

Gonna use this next week, looking forward to it, though I'm taking the panacea perverted rather than the nightmare doll - I'm just looking forward to seeing my opponents realise I'm getting wounds back on my warlord on a 4+

If you have the points, why not give the Haemie both?

Yeah points is the issue

I suppose it is a big points sink at 1500pts with the portal however it's almost guaranteed to throw a spanner in your opponents plans, especially arriving mid game where your they've already committed to a plan. Granted you might only get two assaults off with it but as long as you pick them carefully it could very well win you the game.

I used the DA formation last night, without a WWP. It was my ManConstruct of the Match! Charged a unit of Canoptek Wraiths turn one and tied them up for the rest of the game, sucking in (and destroying) a unit of Necron Warriors and some allied Obliterators and Terminators in the process. They finally finished chewing through that lot on turn 5, having taken only 1 wound per model, and then charged the Necron Warlord and cut him into tiny pieces of scrap metal.

That's good to hear, I'm bringing one to use against Chaos Marines in a doubles game (I'm on the side of Tyranids - my haemonculus must be after more genetic material from his 'friends')

Seeing as it's only really the Talos that does the majority of the killing, does it not seem more sensible to just outflank or scout a Corpsethief formation?

@Hellstrom wrote:

Seeing as it's only really the Talos that does the majority of the killing, does it not seem more sensible to just outflank or scout a Corpsethief formation?

The interesting rules interaction the units in the DA have with each other and other friendly units along with the gear and possible warlord traits of the haemi provide plenty of incentive to field it over and above its pretty good cc prowess.

I'm going to be building a fun coven themed army this coming year and I will make the Dark Artisan formation a staple unit. I really like the Talos and Cronos models and will try to stuff just about as many as I can in the army.

I've used the DA for the last 4 games I've played and it's done really well, I just feel like I'm waiting for it to fail. I suppose I should just keep on waiting


I've actually just made a list with both formations in (DA and Corpsethief). Looks pretty powerful, until I come across Grav of course........

@Hellstrom wrote:

Seeing as it's only really the Talos that does the majority of the killing, does it not seem more sensible to just outflank or scout a Corpsethief formation?

Firstly, I don't think there's too many people (including Games Workshop if you look at the pictures in the Covens supplement!) who have 5 Taloi models. Secondly, whilst the Talos certainly does most of the heavy lifting, the Cronos and Haem add to the survivability of the Talos, by increasing his FNP rolls, adding ablative wounds, absorbing challenges etc.

And corpse thief is a mahoosive points sink (600min?)

600 minimum, indeed!
Lol agreed that nobody has that many models. So of course nobody is going to expect 5 talos to the face, myself included. Imagine my dismay when my pick-up opponent the other week kept pulling more... and more... talos out of his case. 3 new models, 2 old ones. Got a batrep up in the Realspace Raids section HERE.
He fielded the Corpsethief Claw with 5 Haywire Blasters and 5 Ichor Injectors (overkill on the CC, I think).
Kicked my CSM's marine-tide butt too.
Anyone else try it out yet?

Planning on testing Corpsethief Claw and Dark Artisan as my contribution to a 1000pt doubles tourney coming 'round in the spring, with my partner fielding the SM formation that gives you 6 Stormtalons and a couple marines.

Corpsethief Claw - 5 Haywire Blasters, 3 Chain-Flails
Dark Artisan - Spirit Probe, Ichor Injector, Hexrifle
with
Tyrannic War Vets - Chaplain, 5 Vets w/ 2+psn bolters, 6 Stormtalons w/Skyhammer missiles

Think it'll hold up?

Corpsethieft talos have fnp 5+
DA talos and cronos have (if the haemie is your warlord) 4+ fnp with reroll for the 1. Its a nice bonus on T7 monsters

The cronos and the Haemie, while not as killy as the talos, can still do some damage.

Yeah but if you keep the DA Cronos close enough to your other Talos models, they gain 4+ FNP.

Indeed. If I was using the Corpsethief I'd obviously run at least 1 Cronos behind it. Would 2 be required do u think?

The only issue with running a cronos behind the corpsetheif is that you're sacrificing the ability to outflank to do that, assuming you mean from the start of the game. Of course you could take a dark artisan to drop down behind it for the buff to fnp but that's probably overkill and an even bigger points sink.

I don't really see the outflank happening. I'd far rather people are shooting at my unit of Talos (or Cronos) that is walking at them, than popping my skimmers. The Scout move is likely to be more beneficial than outflanking a huge majority of the time. The hard part for me, is deciding whether I should be running the 2 units (Corpsethief and Cronos) or shooting Haywire each turn.

Agree with Hellstrom. The possibility that the 600pts unit is going to be delayed or on the wrong flanc is too big risk to take.

I even hesitate using Dark Artisan via WWP in case it delays. It should draw fire from T1

Another vote for never outflanking with Corpsethief. Too many points that you really really want people to waste their shooting on hiding in reserve, never to be seen again.
As for the Cronos keeping up, yeah with their Scout move the Cronos will have to run turn 1 to do that, but all it has is a template weapon anyway so that's likely what he'd do regardless. And you can just position the Talos so that 1 stays within 6" and you're golden.