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 Competitive pure DE?

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Corpsyworpsy
Slave
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Posts : 12
Join date : 2013-02-11

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PostSubject: Competitive pure DE?   Competitive pure DE? I_icon_minitimeThu Nov 13 2014, 00:54

Dark Artisan Formation

Haemonculus (Warlord)
-WWP

Talos
- Ichor Injector, TL Heat Lance

Cronos
- Spirit Probe

Realspace Raiders Detachment

Haemonculus w/

3 x Grotesques
- Aberration
-LG

-Raider
- Enhanced Aethersails

2 x 10 Warriors
- Splinter Cannon

2 x Raiders
- DL

Razorwing Jetfighter
- DLs

2 x 6 Reavers
- Cluster Caltrops

2 x 5 Scourges
- 4 Haywire Blasters

2 x Ravagers
- 3 DLs

Just trying to be as competitive as possible. I haven't tried the Coven Formation yet, but I hear it's pretty good. Thanks for any advice.
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Vasara
Incognito assault marine
Vasara

Posts : 1160
Join date : 2012-08-22
Location : Vantaa

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PostSubject: Re: Competitive pure DE?   Competitive pure DE? I_icon_minitimeThu Nov 13 2014, 06:46

If you are allready taking Haemy and a unit of grots I would recommend taking Grotesquerie formation too. It's way batter then realspace grotesques.

Hope the scourges work for you. For me they didn't.

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Thor665
Archon
Thor665

Posts : 5526
Join date : 2011-06-10
Location : Venice, FL

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PostSubject: Re: Competitive pure DE?   Competitive pure DE? I_icon_minitimeThu Nov 13 2014, 06:49

@Corpsyworpsy wrote:
Just trying to be as competitive as possible.
I will review this army with this in mind.

@Corpsyworpsy wrote:
Haemonculus (Warlord)
-WWP

Talos
- Ichor Injector, TL Heat Lance

Cronos
- Spirit Probe
I don't think this is a bad unit, per se'. I actually have been having fun with it in a slightly competitive fun sense. That said, at the end of the day, it's a pretty slow unit to get rolling (not hitting it's stride till Turn 3 in the *best* case scenario) which is pretty darn slow in a competitive sense as I often have opponents half tabled by then.

I would keep in mind the inherent slowness here and consider it in relation to the speed of competitive play in your area.

@Corpsyworpsy wrote:
Realspace Raiders Detachment
I don't think this is a bad detachment, but do think it's kind of inferior to CAD, quite frankly. The real question is how many missions you will be playing based on objectives - if it's more than 50% of the primary missions then this detachment very much drops in value.

@Corpsyworpsy wrote:
Haemonculus w/

3 x Grotesques
- Aberration
-LG

-Raider
- Enhanced Aethersails
I don't really get this build - you're going for a rush build with the Aethersails, and have the Haem in there...but the Haem won't matter to the Grots until Turn 3+, and by that stage they should have already been in assault for a turn or two - so how many of them (and he) will be around to matter? If you want a rush face smash option I would suggest that a Succubus + Glaive is more valuable to the unit for similar points (since you could drop the Aberration pretty much straight up as she wouldn't need molly coddling like the Haem)

She would provide the AP2 the unit needs, while the unit would provide her ablative wounds from shooting and T 5 to beef up her weaknesses.

@Corpsyworpsy wrote:
2 x 10 Warriors
- Splinter Cannon

2 x Raiders
- DL
I am not a fan of Gunboat builds particularly, and am less of a fan of them when they lack the splinter rack which is basically the point of trying to use them in the first place. Consider the gains/losses if you were to take Venoms w 5 man Blaster squads - you could practically afford 3 of them for what you're paying here for 2 units. Which is better for what you're buying them for? (though I say that while also being worried about your anti-mech prowess...egads! That said, 5 man squads in Raiders are also a thing.)

@Corpsyworpsy wrote:
Razorwing Jetfighter
- DLs
This is okay, and I like that you have lances on it, though I will caution that a single flyer is not much of a hinderence to anyone, tossing in a second would really increase both the reliability to get one on the board Turn 2 and also the overall survivability if the enemy has any anti-flyer tech.

@Corpsyworpsy wrote:
2 x 6 Reavers
- Cluster Caltrops
Do these have 2x Caltrops or just 1x? If it's 1x I don't like them   Laughing
These are not bad as a build option.

@Corpsyworpsy wrote:
2 x 5 Scourges
- 4 Haywire Blasters
I like, though I caution that haywire blasters are more limited than lances, so I do consider the Ravager a pretty viable 5 point upgrade from these.

@Corpsyworpsy wrote:
2 x Ravagers
- 3 DLs
As it ever was, so it shall ever be - Ravagers are always a solid option.


At the core, when I look at your list, I have two main gripes;

1. Too many points in assault (and some slow assault for a big chunk of it)
2. Questionable anti-mech capabilities.

1. At the end of the day you have a lot of points tied up in Grots, Taloi, and Reavers all of which hit their stride on Turn 2+ in assault. That can be a long time if you go second, and even worse if your reserve (for which you have no manipulation tech built in) whiffs its arrival roll. I think our army (and this game edition) favors a shooting force, and at the very least you probably have too many points dedicated to toys rather than a focused killing list in my opinion.

2. My biggest fear is something for you to assess. In my local meta, at the point total you look to be, I would easily and commonly expect to face large mech forces of 5+ Wave Serpents, or Armored IG, or a bunch of mech Necro scum, et al. When I think of that and consider the amount of anti-mech firepower you can put out turn 1 it curls my toes. As an example, someone asked me to build a competitive force for an 1850 tourney, and in going pure DE I offered up something with 17 dark lances, not even counting the blasters and haywire blasters, because to my mind that's the sort of firepower you need. If you don't see that in your meta, then rock on, but if you do, I strongly advocate working in more anti-mech shooting, as you currently barely have any.

Hope some of those thoughts help.

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PostSubject: Re: Competitive pure DE?   Competitive pure DE? I_icon_minitime

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