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 1850 MSU - Is this how you do it?

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Laughingcarp
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Laughingcarp

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PostSubject: 1850 MSU - Is this how you do it?   1850 MSU - Is this how you do it? I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 11 2014, 06:36

I've never run shooty MSU before but I figure I should try it out since it is (or was?) apparently one of the more competitive ways to run DE. Here is the list. Looking for C&C, and tips on how and where to tweak it.

Dark Eldar CAD
HQ - Archon, Blaster, SF, WWP

Troops - 5 Kabalites, Blaster, Venom w/SC
5 Kabalites, Blaster, Venom w/SC
5 Kabalites, Blaster, Raider w/DL
5 Kabalites, Blaster, Raider w/DL
5 Kabalites, Blaster, Raider w/DL
5 Kabalites, Blaster, Raider w/DL

Elite - 5 Trueborn, 4 Blasters, Raider w/ DL
4 Mandrakes

Fast - Razorwing w/DLs
6 Reavers, 2 CC
5 Scourges, 4 HWB

Heavy - Ravager w/3 DL

Formation
Scalpel Squadron - 5 Wracks, Ossefactor, Venom w/SC
5 Wracks, Ossefactor, Venom w/SC

1844/1850

So how'd I do?
21 lances, 4 HWB, 77 poison shots, and a couple other fun things.
Do I swap the Blaster on the Archon for the Animus Vitae?
Mandrakes conceivably work to help Scalpel get FB, Archon probably rides with the Trueborn for a pinpoint 6 DL attack (or someone disembarks to split up targeting). Reavers steal Quad-guns and that kind of thing. Everyone but the Archon/Trueborn likely starts on the board.

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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 MSU - Is this how you do it?   1850 MSU - Is this how you do it? I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 11 2014, 16:25

@Laughingcarp wrote:
I've never run shooty MSU before but I figure I should try it out since it is (or was?) apparently one of the more competitive ways to run DE. Here is the list. Looking for C&C, and tips on how and where to tweak it.
Aw heck, I suppose I'm obligated to answer this since I am a shooty MSU guy advocate Wink

@Laughingcarp wrote:
HQ - Archon, Blaster, SF, WWP
Not sure why you're bothering to spend points on a s.field on a guy who is useless in assault and will just be sitting back pew-pewing in a squad otherwise. Are you planning to tank hits on him? Because that's the only value I see.

@Laughingcarp wrote:
Troops - 5 Kabalites, Blaster, Venom w/SC
5 Kabalites, Blaster, Venom w/SC
5 Kabalites, Blaster, Raider w/DL
5 Kabalites, Blaster, Raider w/DL
5 Kabalites, Blaster, Raider w/DL
5 Kabalites, Blaster, Raider w/DL
This is actually exactly what I like to have in my troop slot Laughing

@Laughingcarp wrote:
Elite - 5 Trueborn, 4 Blasters, Raider w/ DL
I'm guessing this is where the Archon goes - it's an okay spot.

@Laughingcarp wrote:
4 Mandrakes
Awesome, 18" snipers... Neutral

@Laughingcarp wrote:
Fast - Razorwing w/DLs
I like this.

@Laughingcarp wrote:
6 Reavers, 2 CC
This is okay.

@Laughingcarp wrote:
5 Scourges, 4 HWB
I like this.

@Laughingcarp wrote:
Heavy - Ravager w/3 DL
Good, though I'm starting to notice a dearth of early long range shooting.

@Laughingcarp wrote:
Formation
Scalpel Squadron - 5 Wracks, Ossefactor, Venom w/SC
5 Wracks, Ossefactor, Venom w/SC
This is interesting, it will pair well with the RJBs.

@Laughingcarp wrote:
21 lances, 4 HWB, 77 poison shots, and a couple other fun things.
You do not have 21 lances. You have 21 weapons with the lance effect.
You have 10 lances and 11 Blasters.
2 of those lances won't show up till Turn 2 at the earliest.
3 if you are putting the Archon in reserve with the Trueborn, as I suspect you are.
So you have 8 lances at game start that can fire at 6 different targets.

@Laughingcarp wrote:
Do I swap the Blaster on the Archon for the Animus Vitae?
I wouldn't.

@Laughingcarp wrote:
Mandrakes conceivably work to help Scalpel get FB
Yeah they could conceivably do that.

@Laughingcarp wrote:
Archon probably rides with the Trueborn for a pinpoint 6 DL attack (or someone disembarks to split up targeting). Reavers steal Quad-guns and that kind of thing. Everyone but the Archon/Trueborn likely starts on the board.
What I like in the list is what the Scalpel squadron will bring (in fact, I'd love to hear some feedback if you play some high class armies) and I think the Archon drop is good.

What I don't like is that you're going to be hurting a little bit on damage output on Turn 1 vs. mech. Disabling mech is a big deal, especially with things like Knights and Serpents running around. Your army wins by being able to smear almost any one unit in a turn by weight of firepower while proving hard to dismantle in return due to sheer number mass.

I would tend to advocate working in at least a second Ravager, as I think the ability to reach out Turn 1 and touch dangers is pretty important and as currently stands if there are two dangerous vehicles on the board Turn 1 you are going to have a difficult time bringing much damage to them.

Also, as playstyle advice, never be scared to hop your lads out of their boats if you need that extra 1-6" to get full BS shooting - you aren't paying a lot for each individual unit, be aware of that and play them like a true Archon and treat them as the expendable chattel they are.

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The_Burning_Eye
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 MSU - Is this how you do it?   1850 MSU - Is this how you do it? I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 11 2014, 16:38

I'd definitely second the point about disabling mech - it's something a really struggled with when I'd only got one ravager - i brought a second in my last game and trashed a forgefiend and a predator.

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Laughingcarp
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 MSU - Is this how you do it?   1850 MSU - Is this how you do it? I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 11 2014, 19:55

Burning_Eye I read that batrep, t'was educationally good!
My problem with that plan is I only actually own 1 ravager. Lol this list uses all my vehicles.

Thor665 thank you. That is exactly the kind of response I always hope to get when asking for criticism and help with a list!
Idea behind Shadowfield was simply not giving up Slay the Warlord. But I guess that is 40pts that could go elsewhere.
Lol I know Mandrakes aren't exactly competitive but I have the models painted... And they've proven useful for outflanking objective grabbing in the past.
How is it you're saying the RJB work well with the Scalpel Squadron?
Also thoughts on swapping the RJB CC to Blasters? 30" threat range will help distract from the scourges and add some AT first turn, presuming I'm going before they've had to jink.

So if we're talking losing the chaff to grab a 2nd Ravager, which I first have to buy, Mandrakes and SF are 88pts. 37 points... could get 10 from Reavers swapping CC to Blasters.
But you don't seem sold on the Archon/Trueborn/WWP drop. Not as competitive as I'm expecting? Or just maybe not worth having to wait unit Turn 4? Losing the WWP nets me 35 and opens up enough to turn those Mandrakes into a Ravager.

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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 MSU - Is this how you do it?   1850 MSU - Is this how you do it? I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 11 2014, 20:03

@Laughingcarp wrote:
How is it you're saying the RJB work well with the Scalpel Squadron?
Alone they are just an annoyance up in the opponent's grill - together they provide multiple threats of roughly equal danger, which is the point of MSU.

@Laughingcarp wrote:
Also thoughts on swapping the RJB CC to Blasters? 30" threat range will help distract from the scourges and add some AT first turn, presuming I'm going before they've had to jink.
Depends on your goals. If you do this then don't strike in the Wracks as aggressively.
And, frankly, if you have the points and models, make the Wracks something other than Wracks.

@Laughingcarp wrote:
But you don't seem sold on the Archon/Trueborn/WWP drop. Not as competitive as I'm expecting? Or just maybe not worth having to wait unit Turn 4?
That unit is theoretically functional on Turn 2-3. The thing is, if starting them on the board, it would also be functional Turn 2-3, and maybe Turn 1 if the opponent is narf or aggressive by dint of his list/mission.

I, personally, would not bother with the WWP and would just start the unit on the field to help me with the killing asap. I would also consider +1 Ravager to be well worth the cost of -1 Shadowfield (which you don't need) -1 WWP (which you don't need) and -4 Mandrakes (which are Mandrakes Wink ) I think it would increase your Turn 1 saturation and your ability to hit hard asap - both of which are prime MSU concepts.

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Grub
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 MSU - Is this how you do it?   1850 MSU - Is this how you do it? I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 11 2014, 20:19

I missed the memo, what is MSU, it keeps popping up and I am clueless.

Besides that the list looks pretty good although as before mentioned, I would drop the shadowfield to try and buff another unit

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Skulnbonz
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 MSU - Is this how you do it?   1850 MSU - Is this how you do it? I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 11 2014, 20:46

Multiple Small Unit...
It is an army design that works VERY well for Dark Eldar, except in Kill point missions.

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Grub
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 MSU - Is this how you do it?   1850 MSU - Is this how you do it? I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 11 2014, 22:32

I thought it was along that line, couldn't work out what it stood for, many thanks!

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Laughingcarp
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 MSU - Is this how you do it?   1850 MSU - Is this how you do it? I_icon_minitimeWed Nov 12 2014, 14:59

Ok cool thanks for the pointers and for spelling it out for me! I've added in that Ravager and will hopefully test the list out this weekend.

As for the Scalpel Squadron, I've not got any more trueborn or anything to put in the Venoms, my troop slots are full up. I could swap them for a couple Talos but that's about it.

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PostSubject: Re: 1850 MSU - Is this how you do it?   1850 MSU - Is this how you do it? I_icon_minitime

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