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 1850 DE list I'm not 100% stoked about. C&C please!

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Grub
barenone
Laughingcarp
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Laughingcarp
Wych
Laughingcarp

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PostSubject: 1850 DE list I'm not 100% stoked about. C&C please!   1850 DE list I'm not 100% stoked about. C&C please! I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 29 2014, 14:35

First, the list:

HQ - Lhamaean

Troops - 5 Kabalites, Blaster, Raider, Nightshield, DLance
5 Kabalites, Blaster, Raider, Nightshield, DLance
10 Kabalites, Blaster, Raider, Nightshield, Splinter Racks, DLance

Fast - Razorwing, 2 DLance, 1 Shatterfield
5 Scourges, 4 Haywire
5 Scourges, 4 Haywire
9 Reavers, 3 Caltrop, 3 Blaster

Heavy - Ravager, Nightshield
Reaper, Flickerfields
Talos, Haywire

Dark Artisan Formation -
Cronos, Spirit Probe
Talos, Chain-Flails, TL-Heat Lance
Haemonculus, Webway, Panacea, Scissorhand (Warlord)

So the issues I'm feeling with this list are twofold; One, it doesn't have too terribly much in the way of anti-infantry fire. Ravager, Razorwing missiles, a few Kabalites and a Splinter Rack Gunboat.  
Talos, Dark Artisan, and Reavers should be able to do well enough in that capacity but not until at least turn 2, likely later for the lone Talos. Is this enough AI?

Second, with only the Reavers and Dark Artisan in the enemy DZ I'm worried this won't be enough saturation and they'll get focused down too quickly. Wanted to add the Grotesquerie formation but don't know where/how/what (scissorhand or agonizer? My meta is mostly SM & Tau).

There are 9 Haywire Blasters, the Reaper's Storm Vortex Projecter, a precision Heat Lance, 5 Dark Lances, and 6 Blasters at range, with 2 Talos, a Cronos Smash, Haemy Scissorhand, and 3 Caltrops for CC AT. I feel like this may be overkill. Yes or no?

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Fleet Shadowmaker - Kabal of the Dying Sun; Cult of Marrow Excised; Coven of Lambent Hunger
Sons of the Last Breath - Chaos Space Marines
Host of Shattered Purity - Chaos Daemons


Last edited by Laughingcarp on Wed Oct 29 2014, 15:15; edited 1 time in total
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barenone
Kabalite Warrior
barenone

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PostSubject: Re: 1850 DE list I'm not 100% stoked about. C&C please!   1850 DE list I'm not 100% stoked about. C&C please! I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 29 2014, 15:00

i think it would be a good idea to squeeze i n another gunboat. as it is you do not have many targets for the enemy to shoot at. how much is that reaper? i do not know much about it, i read it a while back and said ehhh but i do not remember what it said.
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Grub
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 DE list I'm not 100% stoked about. C&C please!   1850 DE list I'm not 100% stoked about. C&C please! I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 29 2014, 15:03

I'm pretty sure you need an Archon to use any thing from the Court of the Archon. I know there is some discussion on it but there is no doubt in my mind that the court of the archon is not a HQ slot but rather a null-slot that can be bought If you bring an Archon. Unfortunately. Sad

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Laughingcarp
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 DE list I'm not 100% stoked about. C&C please!   1850 DE list I'm not 100% stoked about. C&C please! I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 29 2014, 15:14

Barenone, Reaper as kitted comes out to 145pts. Not quite enough for a gunboat but maybe I can fiddle something around.
Grub, since RAW is still debatable as you mentioned I and my meta interpret the Court to be able to be taken without an Archon babysitter, so that Lhamaean will be staying put.

Could remove the Reaper, drop NS off both 5-man Raiders, and add in a NS Raider w/3 Grots? Provides AI, helps me by adding another distraction unit thrown at the enemy, and is always fun?

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Fleet Shadowmaker - Kabal of the Dying Sun; Cult of Marrow Excised; Coven of Lambent Hunger
Sons of the Last Breath - Chaos Space Marines
Host of Shattered Purity - Chaos Daemons
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The_Burning_Eye
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 DE list I'm not 100% stoked about. C&C please!   1850 DE list I'm not 100% stoked about. C&C please! I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 29 2014, 16:05

As you've got a decent amount of AT already, you could make the 5 man units ride venoms instead to boost your AI.

In terms of target saturation, the artisan should arrive same as your gunboat (assuming you're ds'ing it?), and I'm assuming you'll be boosting the reavers forward. With a WWP you should be able to manipulate the artisan's arrival point to maximise cover/los blockers, I wouldn't worry too much about them - your opponent is going to want to take down venoms if they're anything like the guys i play against.

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Laughingcarp
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 DE list I'm not 100% stoked about. C&C please!   1850 DE list I'm not 100% stoked about. C&C please! I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 29 2014, 16:34

Yup DS the gunboat unless they're swimming in interceptor.
Changing the Raiders to Venoms makes decent sense Burning_Eye, thanks for that idea.

I'm leaning more towards the Grots instead of the Reaper. Trouble is, now I'm trying to figure out how I can add a Haywire/Glaive Succubus into the mix which gets rid of that Lhamaean. Any ideas?

Something like this...

RSR Detachment
HQ - Succubus, Glaive, HWG

Elite - 3 Grots, Aberration, Scissorhand, Raider w/NS

Troops - 5 Kabbies, Blaster, Venom w/SC
5 Kabbies, Blaster, Venom w/SC
10 Kabbies, Blaster, Raider w/DL, SR, NS

Fast - Razorwing, 2 DL, NS
9 Reavers, 3 CC, 3 BL
5 Scourges, 4 HWB
5 Scourges, 4 HWB

Heavy - Ravager, NS

Dark Artisan - Cronos, Probe
Talos, TL-HL
Haemy, WWP

Dumped the Lone Talos (picture him with a cowboy hat on a tilt and a pair of splinter cannons strapped to his hips) and a few other things then used the extra points to add a Scissorhand Aberration and a Succubus, and NS on the Razorwing.

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I dedicate these deaths to Odin Allfather, Spearshaker, One Eye.
Fleet Shadowmaker - Kabal of the Dying Sun; Cult of Marrow Excised; Coven of Lambent Hunger
Sons of the Last Breath - Chaos Space Marines
Host of Shattered Purity - Chaos Daemons
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The_Burning_Eye
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 DE list I'm not 100% stoked about. C&C please!   1850 DE list I'm not 100% stoked about. C&C please! I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 29 2014, 16:42

I do like running a Succy with Grots - she gives them a Ld boost they definitely need, and has plasma grenades so if they charge into cover she'll still get her strikes in at her natural initiative - even if she only kills a couple that could make all the difference to stop the grots getting overwhelmed before they get the chance to strike back.

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My Blog - The Burning Eye Blog (check it out - comments always welcome)

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Laughingcarp
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 DE list I'm not 100% stoked about. C&C please!   1850 DE list I'm not 100% stoked about. C&C please! I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 29 2014, 16:49

Yeah I remember reading one of your posts elsewhere on why Succubus and Grots are bffs, helped me think in that direction..

Rundown on that 2nd list;
-3 DL, 6 BL, 8 HWB, 1 TL-HL for ranged AT. That kinda feels lacking now.
-HWG, Grots + Scissorhand, 3 CC, 2 MCs for close combat AT. That feels decently solid.
-4 Monoscythe missiles, 4 Dissies, Kabbie Gunboat, 2 Venoms, Spirit Syphon, and Reaver rifles for ranged AI. Not bad.
-2 MCs, 9 Reavers w/3 CC, 4 Grots, Glaive Succubus, and late-game the Kabbies for close combat AI. Acceptable.

Thoughts?

And then, do I consider stripping Night Shields off everything and adding in a single Dark Lance Raider?

What about running the reavers as two units, one of 6 models and one of 3?

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I dedicate these deaths to Odin Allfather, Spearshaker, One Eye.
Fleet Shadowmaker - Kabal of the Dying Sun; Cult of Marrow Excised; Coven of Lambent Hunger
Sons of the Last Breath - Chaos Space Marines
Host of Shattered Purity - Chaos Daemons
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Ly'khal the Exiled
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 DE list I'm not 100% stoked about. C&C please!   1850 DE list I'm not 100% stoked about. C&C please! I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 30 2014, 17:55

I wouldn't break up the Reavers, a unit of 3 only has 1-2 meat shields before your special weapons start to drop. If you field both blaster and the caltrops on a single bike, you'll have 6 models to take the beating before your enemy can touch those 3 special-gun bikes. Just as a thought. In my opinion MSU has always worked for us but you can easily overdo it, making too fragile unit that won't do squat. 3 Reavers will just get killed.
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Laughingcarp
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 DE list I'm not 100% stoked about. C&C please!   1850 DE list I'm not 100% stoked about. C&C please! I_icon_minitimeSun Nov 02 2014, 17:57

Groovy thanks for the tips. I'd been reading lots about people running MSU Reavers and was wondering if that's how I should be playing it, though the last time they all got killed horrifically by SMS Missilesides.
Game is today, will post details.

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I dedicate these deaths to Odin Allfather, Spearshaker, One Eye.
Fleet Shadowmaker - Kabal of the Dying Sun; Cult of Marrow Excised; Coven of Lambent Hunger
Sons of the Last Breath - Chaos Space Marines
Host of Shattered Purity - Chaos Daemons
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thaotic
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 DE list I'm not 100% stoked about. C&C please!   1850 DE list I'm not 100% stoked about. C&C please! I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 03 2014, 02:22

With your switch to the Venoms, I'm worried your Gunboat will be a bit lonely in it's range bracket.

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Animus12
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 DE list I'm not 100% stoked about. C&C please!   1850 DE list I'm not 100% stoked about. C&C please! I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 03 2014, 05:37

@thaotic - It may seem like it, but he also has 2 scourge squads and a reaver blob (when shooting) in the same general range bracket. Given the 2 strong melee units (possibly 3 with reavers) dropping in the opponent's face and the long range support, I'd say he is pretty set.
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Laughingcarp
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 DE list I'm not 100% stoked about. C&C please!   1850 DE list I'm not 100% stoked about. C&C please! I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 03 2014, 07:58

Yeah the Gunboat Raider had plenty of friendlies nearby in my test-run of the list today so that wasn't a concern. I swapped 1 of the venoms back to a DL Raider though since I was worried about having enough Anti-Tank at range.
Check it out here:https://www.thedarkcity.net/t10681-1850-de-vs-iron-hands

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I dedicate these deaths to Odin Allfather, Spearshaker, One Eye.
Fleet Shadowmaker - Kabal of the Dying Sun; Cult of Marrow Excised; Coven of Lambent Hunger
Sons of the Last Breath - Chaos Space Marines
Host of Shattered Purity - Chaos Daemons
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1850 DE list I'm not 100% stoked about. C&C please! Empty
PostSubject: Re: 1850 DE list I'm not 100% stoked about. C&C please!   1850 DE list I'm not 100% stoked about. C&C please! I_icon_minitime

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