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 DE TBR #2: 1850 Pure DE vs. Tau

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HERO
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PostSubject: DE TBR #2: 1850 Pure DE vs. Tau   DE TBR #2: 1850 Pure DE vs. Tau I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 22 2014, 07:39

He had some FW components, but I wouldn't say his list was optimal. I didn't know Knarlocs existed in this game until today.

The game can be found here, or what's left of it:
http://lkhero.blogspot.com/2014/10/de-tactical-battle-report-2.html

Come for the thoughts and pictures, but that's about it.

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Amornar
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PostSubject: Re: DE TBR #2: 1850 Pure DE vs. Tau   DE TBR #2: 1850 Pure DE vs. Tau I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 22 2014, 15:21

Nice battle report HERO, playing aggressive against tau while trying to maximize your cover is really the best way to go. I know the talk about how scary tau are to play against nowadays has been around the forums a lot and I think this report is a good example of solid target priority.
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The_Burning_Eye
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PostSubject: Re: DE TBR #2: 1850 Pure DE vs. Tau   DE TBR #2: 1850 Pure DE vs. Tau I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 22 2014, 15:29

As you say, very definitely not an optimal list (I generally look at Tau lists with more than one Riptide in them as being sub-optimal even in a friendly setting, I've always found their damage output to be less than the investment made in them). Still, good to see how they go down under weight of lance fire, now if only that worked against serpents!

Question - I know you don't like the coven models, but putting their appearance aside for a moment, would you change you list up to include them if you did like them, or would you still concentrate on the lance & poison combo you run with at present? I see the coven stuff as mainly CC orientated so I'm guessing not?

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HERO
Wych
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PostSubject: Re: DE TBR #2: 1850 Pure DE vs. Tau   DE TBR #2: 1850 Pure DE vs. Tau I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 22 2014, 17:43

Quote :
Question - I know you don't like the coven models, but putting their appearance aside for a moment, would you change you list up to include them if you did like them, or would you still concentrate on the lance & poison combo you run with at present? I see the coven stuff as mainly CC orientated so I'm guessing not?

Yep, that's partially it.

Other reasons to not include them aside from fluff/aesthetic/they smell reasons:
1. Nothing aside from CC scares enemy players. You need to be able to scare enemies with long-range Poison shooting, or lances, and Coven doesn't have any of these. The fact they took out all the crazy Shattershard and other forms of death just further minimizes their footprint in an experienced player's mind.
2. Subpar shooting, no S8 AP2 ID threat, no AP2 threat, not enough range.
3. Really slow, you walk everywhere, or have to reserve (which means you're not contributing on T1). You really need to be able to contribute to the fight immediately in this edition because weight of fire provides you with momentum for the rest of the game.
4. Focuses on durability over offense, and offense is just a must have with Dark Eldar because you need to control the tempo of the game.
5. It conflicts with the rest of the Dark Eldar army, since your other units want to be on offensive, shooting, scooting, and advancing, you're either too slow to keep up or don't offer the same kind of punch. Think of it like a school of piranha: The less you have doing the same thing means you achieve less overall.
6. CC is generally poor in this edition. You kill something, you get shot in return. Some dude takes a crap unit and spreads it out in a line, you're basically stuck having to charge it or get shot some more.

These are my main gripes with coven units, Grotesques, Talos, Chronos, whatever. The Grots are a little better because you can Raider them off and just aethersail your way into their lines, but they still cost points and won't do jack crap on turn 1. With the amount of points you spend there, think about the equivalent of Venoms and Lances you can buy. Not to mention if you Talos or Chronos, you'll want to take multiples. A single one won't do much because that's how they're designed, so you're forced to take more which then costs points, which then leads to me asking you: How many poison and lance shots are you missing out instead? I think you get my point.

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Laughingcarp
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PostSubject: Re: DE TBR #2: 1850 Pure DE vs. Tau   DE TBR #2: 1850 Pure DE vs. Tau I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 22 2014, 23:28

First thing I noticed, in your deployment picture, was the terrain setup.
I like the AMOUNT of terrain being fielded...
But it is set up perfectly to help gun lines and hinder everything else! What the heck?
The middle of the board is a killing field.
Was that how you two set it up, or was it pre-set?
Also I've read your bit about Dark Lances and their necessity in DE lists, but what are your opinions on Disintegrator Cannons?

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HERO
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PostSubject: Re: DE TBR #2: 1850 Pure DE vs. Tau   DE TBR #2: 1850 Pure DE vs. Tau I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 22 2014, 23:58

@Laughingcarp wrote:
First thing I noticed, in your deployment picture, was the terrain setup.
I like the AMOUNT of terrain being fielded...
But it is set up perfectly to help gun lines and hinder everything else! What the heck?
The middle of the board is a killing field.
Was that how you two set it up, or was it pre-set?
Also I've read your bit about Dark Lances and their necessity in DE lists, but what are your opinions on Disintegrator Cannons?

Yeah, it does kind of bias gunlines and the such, we kinda just picked up pieces and put them around the board and then asked each other if we're comfortable.  Of course he was!

I don't feel the need for Disintegrator Cannons.  We have a lot of weapons that is designed to kill infantry or at least push enough wounds to make them roll saves.  What we do need is the S8 for ID threat and a high enough S to wound T6-8 reliably. The higher strength also doubles up as AT which the DC does not, and when you combine the higher S, Lance rule and AP2, you have a pretty decent weapon.

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Laughingcarp
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PostSubject: Re: DE TBR #2: 1850 Pure DE vs. Tau   DE TBR #2: 1850 Pure DE vs. Tau I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 23 2014, 03:49

Haha yeah figured he would be. My regular Tau opponent does the same thing.
Excellent summary. Thanks!

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PostSubject: Re: DE TBR #2: 1850 Pure DE vs. Tau   DE TBR #2: 1850 Pure DE vs. Tau I_icon_minitime

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