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The_Burning_Eye
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Norrin
Hellion
Norrin


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PostSubject: Scourges   Scourges I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 17 2014, 19:50

Next up!  I love these guys.. they look promising, and the models are amazing!

To DS them or not.  Here is what I have come up with.  Let me know what you think, as I am all theory and almost no practice (so far).

They have a move, if they choose not to shoot, of 12, plus thrust of 2d6.  So on average they can move up to 19".  If they DS, then they are ineffective and cannot shoot first turn anyways.

So my options would be either DS them in and amongst the enemy, or move them into a good firing position.  Either way, turn 1 will be wasted for them.  This is all based on what weapons they are assigned of course...  HWB could still give them an effective move and shoot range of 24" + 19" = 43" assuming clear LOS.

What I was thinking was either load them up with DL, position them first turn, then open fire from a good spot, or DS them, give them more blasters (with a HWB in case of a bad DS scatter), and maybe a HL if they are lucky enough to get in close.  The DS build would let them move around a bit, which would be handy. The DL build would mean that they cannot move, but if I get a good firing position, they may not have to move too much.

Thoughts?

Edit: I am viewing them as a possible anti-armour unit, as you may have guessed.

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skullmonkeyz
Hellion
skullmonkeyz


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PostSubject: Re: Scourges   Scourges I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 17 2014, 20:05

First of all, scourges are jump infantry, not jet pack infantry, so they don't get to make a thrust move, ever.
Next, after deepstriking, you may shoot or run with the unit as normal, so nothing "ineffective" there except being at the mercy of your reserve rolls.
As far as loadout is concerned, i think i personally prefer the HWB variant, though there's a lot of discussion about this very topic all around the forum.
The consensus seems to be that if you want heat lances, you might want an IC with WWP to get into melta range and also to protect your sorry a** from any explosion, though i'd say such a unit will be shot to pieces first thing in your opponent's turn.

That's only my opinion though! Smile
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Norrin
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Norrin


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PostSubject: Re: Scourges   Scourges I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 17 2014, 20:10

They are ineffective first turn, yes. Cannot DS until 2nd turn.

Dammit.. I guess that huge move was too good to be true! TY for pointing that out!

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skullmonkeyz
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PostSubject: Re: Scourges   Scourges I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 17 2014, 20:27

I think there's nothing wrong with starting your scourges on the table. Assuming the HWB loadout, you have an effective threat range of 36", which is probably plenty most of the time.

Furthermore, unless you are playing on planet bowling ball, chances are you can keep your scourges out of harm's way if needed. Always remember: for line of sight purposes, wings are not considered part of the model, so your huge wings are not a disadvantage when determining who can shoot at you and what kind of cover save you will be getting Smile
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thesaltedwound
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thesaltedwound


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PostSubject: Re: Scourges   Scourges I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 17 2014, 21:39

They're not??
That's good news.

And yeah, I was going to say. They can shoot all they want on their arrival turn, they just can't assault. Deep striking them without a WWP is dangerous though, as they'll be most effective where they can hide = where they'll land and break an ankle.

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Panic_Puppet
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PostSubject: Re: Scourges   Scourges I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 17 2014, 22:01

Haywire blasters all the way for me. I run 5 with 2, have done all the way through since I started the army, and they work pretty well. They've got a great threat range, and are pretty reliable. 4 HWBs have a not unreasonable chance of straight-out one-shotting a 3HP vehicle.

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thesaltedwound
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PostSubject: Re: Scourges   Scourges I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 17 2014, 22:05

Panic, are you not tempted by 4 HWB in one squad now we can do that?
Any reason for staying at 2/5?

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dhrakon
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PostSubject: Re: Scourges   Scourges I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 17 2014, 22:20

probably ablative wounds
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darthken239
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PostSubject: Re: Scourges   Scourges I_icon_minitimeSat Oct 18 2014, 01:14

might pay to mix it up a bit with 2 differently armed squads, i recently played an orc army and by turn 2 the only AV model he had on the board was a flyer. this left me 8 S4 shots which was abysmal.
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Cerve
Hekatrix
Cerve


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PostSubject: Re: Scourges   Scourges I_icon_minitimeSat Oct 18 2014, 01:24

Scourges with 4 HWB all the time! They are the best antitank choice on de Codex, they can make first blood almost easy with a 36" complessive range, and if u going second, they can DeepStrike.
HWB is the best choice. Blasters and Poisoned shoot can find in other choice; haywirenblaster is for the Scourges.
imho
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lessthanjeff
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PostSubject: Re: Scourges   Scourges I_icon_minitimeSat Oct 18 2014, 02:27

darthken239 wrote:
might pay to mix it up a bit with 2 differently armed squads, i recently played an orc army and by turn 2 the only AV model he had on the board was a flyer.  this left me  8 S4 shots which was abysmal.

I think in a 750-1250 game I'd try to do one squad of blasters and one of haywires because of what you're describing, but games bigger than that I'd probably stick with 2 units using haywire and only get a blaster one in if I want to run a third squad. I like to have backups of everything because I know if I only run one unit of scourges with haywire and it is a serious threat to something my opponent has, then he'll just make sure he knocks it out. Backups are always appreciated imo.
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Muugly
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PostSubject: Re: Scourges   Scourges I_icon_minitimeSat Oct 18 2014, 05:58

depends on what you are bringing and the deployment type if you are deploying on the long edges of the table it would probably be worth it to keep them on the table turn one as you are probably going to be in range of something if you are deploying on the short edges you probably want to keep them in reserve and for corners it's a toss up. Since i usually have lots of dark lances already i bring my scourges in 10 man squads base with shardcarbines as a bomb of 30 poisoned shots if you have multiple squads you now have disruption units all over the table and you didn't even need to bring a WWP
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urden93
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PostSubject: Re: Scourges   Scourges I_icon_minitimeSat Oct 18 2014, 07:02

I prefer 2x5 i usually play against 6 LR variant in 1250 or a big landraider ooor the fine gentleman Achilles i rarely wipe all bawks even with dragon/hawk/spider aspectstorm with cwe
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PostSubject: Re: Scourges   Scourges I_icon_minitimeSat Oct 18 2014, 08:54

Tomorrows game I'll be running a unit with 4 HBs and another with 4 DLs. Both will start in the board with the DL squad camped in cover with a nice big firing arc. The HB squad will start more hidden and can pounce out

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Mr Believer
Wych
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PostSubject: Re: Scourges   Scourges I_icon_minitimeSat Oct 18 2014, 10:06

I have two squads, both five strong with four haywire blasters. I've learnt from painful experience that deep striking the unit to get close enough to hurt something is fraught with dangerous possibilities. Some of these can at least be mitigated by a character with a webway portal, but that does mean you're leaving an HQ choice hanging out to dry. With heat lances, you could be supremely unlucky and only knock off a couple of hull points, then you're only 9" away. At least with haywire blasters you can stay at a bit more of a range. The best my Scourges ever did (before this codex made them good) was when I started them on the table with haywire blasters, because they could pop out from behind cover and strip hull points off stuff, whilst not having to suffer huge amounts of retaliatory fire.

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PainReaver
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PostSubject: Re: Scourges   Scourges I_icon_minitimeSat Oct 18 2014, 10:20

Personally I'm of the Heat Lance variety, as those Haywire scourges have no use after shutting down armor, or at the very least not arming all of them with Haywires. If you have say 6 squads, suggest arming three to four, and the rest on heat lances for a deep strike, going for a classic pincer.

If you are going the all-Haywire route, you will also need Dark Lance Ravagers, and some Blasterborn to boot. Why? You are within 24" range, and is the sole AT threat on the field, you can bet on the opposing pretty much focusing every single firepower in annihilating that unit, cover saves be damned.

Also according to some battle reports, the enemy can leave out baits for your Scourges to destroy, ensuring the Scourges will be destroyed the next turn. Haywire Scourges also have problems when vehicles are obscured by cover. Similarly the opponent deployment may entirely deny line of sight for their vehicles from the eyes of your Scourges.

Haywire Scourges should be deployed via deep strike, thus, to circumvent any attempts at LOS denial.

Against skimmers, take into account Jink.
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skullmonkeyz
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PostSubject: Re: Scourges   Scourges I_icon_minitimeSat Oct 18 2014, 11:02

Meh, i'm not sure i really like heat lances on scourges. I mean, we can all agree that HL scourges within 9" of a tank are going to murderize it and leave it a pile of ash, but then you most probably just deepstruck your AT unit to certain doom.
With the HWB, even when deep striking, chances to blow up the target are slim at best, leaving you with a nice wreck to hide behind. And i want to capitalize again, wings are not counted for LOS purposes, so hiding behind something like a rhino should be rather doable Smile
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PainReaver
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PostSubject: Re: Scourges   Scourges I_icon_minitimeSat Oct 18 2014, 11:10

When you go Heat Lances on Scourges, you are kind of aware, that the unit is going to die after it kills the Land Raider/Predator/Leman Russ etc.

Actually with HW scourges, your chance of glancing a 3 HP vehicle to death is relatively 50-50. You average about 2.
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Druchii
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PostSubject: Re: Scourges   Scourges I_icon_minitimeSat Oct 18 2014, 21:26

I had a go with 2 min squads with 4 HWB in each. They worked really well!! I had some really good rolls though and both squads scored 4 glancing hits each in one go.
On the other hand, I ganked one ork trukk each with em...
That said.... Yes, I WOULD have wrecked two land raiders at 200-ish pts each but instead I ganked 2 trukks at 50-ish (??) pts each. And the trukkaboyz was in shooting range afterward. Point-wise it was a down flip. On the other hand. Those poor trukkboyz had to footslugg towards me Wink.

I don't know exactly where to land in this rant but... Scourges work wonders and the HWB is REALLY sweet. But if your opponent is fielding only Trukks/Rhinos and other low AV transports, then they may be points better spent else where...
On the other hand, two five-man squads with HWB is two solid choices in any all-comers-list. scratch
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NiteOwl
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PostSubject: Re: Scourges   Scourges I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 21 2014, 19:53

In my play group (Tau, Orks, Tyranids, Space Marines) veichles are non-existent except for the lonesome Devilfish and Trukk. Therefore I am trying to equip my Scourges with anti-infantry weapons. The problem is that I am unsure which one to choose. Shredders, Splinter Cannons or Blasters?

At the moment I have ten Scourges unequipped waiting at the armoury.

Shredder:
Pros: Cheap, alot of hits, easy to wound.
Cons: Short range, no AP

Splinter Cannon:
Pros: Long range, lots of shots, poison
Cons: Need to remain stationary to maximize its power, only AP5

Blaster:
Pros: S8, AP2
Cons: Few shots

With the Shredders I have a hard time to get within necessary range when I flap across the board. Would Deep Strike help them with this?

Four Splinter Cannons in a squad of five would put out 24 shots at 36 inch while remaining stationary. While moving, 15 shots at 18 inch. I see potential in this build. Deploying in cover but with a good firing arc over the board. Then just laying down torrents after torrents until movement is needed. The redeploy and still maintain some pressure.

The Blasters will have an easy time wounding and penetrating most stuff, hopefully killing some multiwound T4 models. But with four shots I get unsure, so easy to fluff all the damage output by bad hit-rolls.

What would you have equipped and why?

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The Red King
Hekatrix
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PostSubject: Re: Scourges   Scourges I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 21 2014, 20:56

I recommend blasters m you never know when someone might bring tanks and anti infantry is not lacking in our army. Venoms are imo a much better way to get splinter cannons.

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Aroban
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PostSubject: Re: Scourges   Scourges I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 21 2014, 20:58

Splinter carbines ;-)

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NiteOwl
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PostSubject: Re: Scourges   Scourges I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 21 2014, 22:06

Well I intend to find a use for my Scourges because I like them and I have them. Venoms might be better but I have none and I have no intent to buy any in the near future.

Carbines you say Aroban. Well it feels like a waste to not use the four special/heavy-weapon slots. But then again plain carbines are cheaper. Hmm...

How about a ten strong unit with carbines and a solarite with power spear? For support and late game assault.

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Panic_Puppet
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PostSubject: Re: Scourges   Scourges I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 22 2014, 00:27

thesaltedwound wrote:
Panic, are you not tempted by 4 HWB in one squad now we can do that?
Any reason for staying at 2/5?

I own five and that's how they're modeled, don't particularly want to rip them apart and remodel them. I'm tempted to get another box and do them the same, so I can run the same unit twice or an anti-infantry unit and an anti-tank unit.

Part of it though, is that they won't always have targets. Then the 5 S4 shots become a bit meh. I think that, personally, 2/5 gives you a bit more versatility as that way you're more than capable of infantry hunting, whilst stripping a hull point here and there.

If I ran 4/5 haywires, I'd use them in place of a ravager and they'd essentially be the list's main anti-tank squads. But as it stands, I have plenty of anti-armour, and prefer to use my scourges in more of a support role than a dedicated anti-tank one.

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PostSubject: Re: Scourges   Scourges I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 22 2014, 09:47

I was excited by scourges when the new book first dropped as ive had the models since the start of 6th and hardly used them.
But the more i use them the more i realise they arent all that. Yes, they have the ability to drop a land raider in one go, but usually id expect at least one of the 4 HWB to miss.
I'm thinking heat lances make much more sense as at least that can threaten infantry, but even then, the unit is so fragile.
Im planning on dropping the scourges entirely for 6 man reaver squads, 2 heat lances and 1 caltrops at 131 points is much more mobile and generally more survivable. They dont have quite as much of the anti-armour potential from their shooting, but then theyve got those HoW hits. Or if you do get a lucky melta lance shot, you can assault move away.
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