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exsquared
Hellion
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PostSubject: Formations   Formations I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 15 2014, 15:50

Looking at our repurposed grenades i.e. soulfright, I was reminded of the WD formation we got a while back, the Kabalite Stormsurge [link to picture: https://i.imgur.com/RU6dBsP.jpg] . Seeing as formations are now treated as detachments, is there anything stopping us from using said formation in a typical game?

Because if not, it could be very effective, especially if they have infanty on the board that are succeptable to soulfright.

Combine that formation with the armour of misery on the Archon, torment grenade launchers on the skimmers and phantasm grenade launchers on the Archon and Kabalites. You arrive turn 1, lower their leadership by 5 then hit them with the grenades to go through armour and cover saves. Plus you can shoot as normal, so plenty of spliter/lance fire etc, and those 3 reaver squads can be given heat lances to hit tank rear armour.

Hell, if we can do this, why not take multiples of this? You could have a second Archon take the Archangel of Pain. The units hit by this could have as much as a -7 Ld penalty on their test.

So returning to my original question, can we take this formation in a typical game?
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Unorthodoxy
Beating A Different Drummer
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PostSubject: Re: Formations   Formations I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 15 2014, 15:57

If its in white dwarf its supposed to be legal. But with a new codex I kinda think old material is probably not legal as it no doubt refers to the Dark Eldar book and not the Codex: Dark Eldar book?

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Count Adhemar
Dark Lord of Granbretan
Count Adhemar

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PostSubject: Re: Formations   Formations I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 15 2014, 15:58

It's an Apocalypse Formation so no, you can't use it in regular games.

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exsquared
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PostSubject: Re: Formations   Formations I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 15 2014, 16:02

When it was introduced, formations only appeared in Apocalypse. But now that formations are a regular part of the game, is it explicitly stated anywhere that it is Apocalypse only?
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Count Adhemar
Dark Lord of Granbretan
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PostSubject: Re: Formations   Formations I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 15 2014, 16:05

@exsquared wrote:
When it was introduced, formations only appeared in Apocalypse. But now that formations are a regular part of the game, is it explicitly stated anywhere that it is Apocalypse only?

Formations were around before that issue of WD. I'd have to check my copy at home but I'm 99% sure that it says Apocalypse only as it's an addon to the Warzone Valedor, which is an Apoc supplement.

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Laughingcarp
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PostSubject: Re: Formations   Formations I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 15 2014, 19:09

It does specifically say "Apocalypse Formation" in the White Dwarf issue. I can't find the picture I posted last time this was brought up, but "Apocalypse Formation" is the heading the formation falls under.

Not for use in regular games.

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Klaivex Charondyr
Wych
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PostSubject: Re: Formations   Formations I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 15 2014, 19:12

The Formation Situation is pretty much unclear.
The Formations/Dataslates published before 7th hit had this statement:

Quote :
If a Formation is referred to as an Apocalypse Formation, it can only be used in games of Warhammer 40,000: Apocalypse.

7th edition BRB itself makes no more remarks to Formations belonging to one Game or another:

Quote :

Formations
Formations are a special type of Detachment, each a specific grouping of units renowned for their effectiveness on the battlefields of the 41st Millennium. Whilst some Formations provide you with all the gaming information you will need to use them in your games, it is not uncommon for them simply to describe a number of special rules that apply when you include several specific units together. Instead of including a Force Organisation chart, the Army List Entries that comprise a Formation are listed on it, along with any special rules that those units gain. Unless stated otherwise, each individual unit maintains its normal Battlefield Role when taken as part of a Formation.
Unlike other Detachments, Formations can also be taken as part of Unbound armies. If they are, their units maintain the special rules gained for being part of the Formation.

Formations/Dataslates coming out AFTER 7th Edition (like Assassines for example) also no longer mention different Formations for Apoc and "standard" 40k:

Quote :
FORMATIONS
A Formation presents a collection of units that fight alongside one another in a particular way. Each Formation will tell you what units you need to take and what, if any, options or restrictions apply to the units that make up that Formation. The Army List Entries for each unit in the Formation (the units’ profiles, points values, unit types, unit composition, special rules, battlefield role etc.) can all be found in this dataslate.

Thoughts?
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aurynn
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PostSubject: Re: Formations   Formations I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 15 2014, 20:05

We need a clarification from GW. This issue is so serious IMHO that it cannot be "ruled by community". Which unfortunatelly means that we will never be sure. :-D
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El_Jairo
Kabalite Warrior
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PostSubject: Re: Formations   Formations I_icon_minitimeSat Oct 18 2014, 00:41

I would say Apoc Formation are only allowed in Unbound armies, so your opponent has to agree upon it.
As it comes with a different symbol as the 7th Ed Formations.
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PostSubject: Re: Formations   Formations I_icon_minitime

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