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 Sky Serpemts 1850 - Reaver Epiphany

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Amornar
Painjunky
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Sky Serpent
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PostSubject: Sky Serpemts 1850 - Reaver Epiphany   Sky Serpemts 1850 - Reaver Epiphany I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 15 2014, 09:26

So, I have many building up my new force over the last week and I just wasn't that excited by the coven elements of my other list. I think I've underrated Reavers and what they bring to the table.

I guess the idea of the list is first turn avoidance and positioning with a second turn beta strike.

Concerns have been raised about the husk blade and lhaemean in my previous army list thread but I'd rather focus on the basics of the list and possible improvements and better ideas.

~

REALSPACE RAIDERS DETACHMENT

Archon, Husk blade, Shadow field, Webway portal, 160pts
8 Sslyth, 1 Lhaemean, Raider, Dark lance, Splinter racks, 285pts

5 Kabalite Warriors, Venom, additional Splinter cannon, 105pts
5 Kabalite Warriors, Venom, additional Splinter cannon, 105pts
5 Kabalite Warriors, Venom, additional Splinter cannon, 105pts
5 Kabalite Warriors, Venom, additional Splinter cannon, 105pts

5 Scourges, 4 Heat lances, 120pts
5 Scourges, 4 Haywire blasters, 120pts
Razorwing Jetfighter, 2 Dark lances, 140pts
6 Reavers, 2 Blasters, 2 Cluster caltrops, 146pts
6 Reavers, 2 Blasters, 2 Cluster caltrops, 146pts
6 Reavers, 2 Blasters, 2 Cluster caltrops, 146pts

Voidraven Bomber, 2 Void lances, 160pts

TOTAL 1843pts

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Grub
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PostSubject: Re: Sky Serpemts 1850 - Reaver Epiphany   Sky Serpemts 1850 - Reaver Epiphany I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 15 2014, 09:40

Looks good to me, how would you play it say you have first turn, night fighting is in effect and there is intermediate cover on the board. What would the go to idea be?

As in you say avoidance, are we talking about large volumes in reserve for example?

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Painjunky
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PostSubject: Re: Sky Serpemts 1850 - Reaver Epiphany   Sky Serpemts 1850 - Reaver Epiphany I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 15 2014, 12:21

Love it so much I already ran it twice and is now my go to build! Works a treat too!

My list is only slightly different...

I have a cheaper archon, same exact court unit tho.
Only 2 warrior in venom units.
I add in a unit of blasterborn in venom.
I go all haywire on the scourge units
2 reaver units have heatlances 1 has caltrops
No voidraven but 3 ravagers, 2 with disis 1 with lances.

At 2000 pts I add a jetbike autarch + jetbike unit for +1 reserves and another super fast unit that can do AT or AI.
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Sky Serpent
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PostSubject: Re: Sky Serpemts 1850 - Reaver Epiphany   Sky Serpemts 1850 - Reaver Epiphany I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 15 2014, 14:08

@Grub wrote:
Looks good to me, how would you play it say you have first turn, night fighting is in effect and there is intermediate cover on the board. What would the go to idea be?

As in you say avoidance, are we talking about large volumes in reserve for example?

I guess for the Reavers that that is the perfect example for them and would allow you to be aggressive and attempt to close the trap; Sslyth bomb, scourges and flyers would start off the board.

Glad we're thinking along the same lines Painjunky - I'm thinking I could drop one warrior venom squad and the voidraven and go with two Ravagers although I am unsure on what would add more to the list. Looking to avoid allies.

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Amornar
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PostSubject: Re: Sky Serpemts 1850 - Reaver Epiphany   Sky Serpemts 1850 - Reaver Epiphany I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 15 2014, 15:45

I really like your list Sky. Mine is similar, bit closer to what painjunky is running. It is posted in the army list forums if you want to see my perspective.

I would support the shift over to two ravagers, they might be a little more pricey but I think worth it as they are more in par with things like predators that are their equivalent and fill that needed niche in out dex of long range anti tank. I also like heat lances on reavers over blasters because I feel blasters are common enough and the reaver chassis allow us to get close and give more tools than just haywire to break big tanks.

I say try the list out and get some battle reports up!!
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Sky Serpent
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PostSubject: Re: Sky Serpemts 1850 - Reaver Epiphany   Sky Serpemts 1850 - Reaver Epiphany I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 15 2014, 20:10

Thanks for the replies so far, you've all really got my creative juices flowing.

Is 3 squads of Reavers too much? I could drop one squad and add a second Razorwing.

I've realised that without objective secured, I shouldn't be so precious about my troops.

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Amornar
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PostSubject: Re: Sky Serpemts 1850 - Reaver Epiphany   Sky Serpemts 1850 - Reaver Epiphany I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 15 2014, 20:19

I have 4 units of 3 for maximum targets....so no I have thought about dropping/swapping to 3 units of 6 though, also really good. Also think two razorwings are better than one I am a firm believer in pairs of high target models working better than just one. If you are running real space raiders detachment there really is little reason for more than minimum troops. I had three units in venoms at one point and realized dropping a unit for 2 "free" archon ones was better as I only cared about the venom for shooting and there was no objecsec anyway.....
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Grub
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PostSubject: Re: Sky Serpemts 1850 - Reaver Epiphany   Sky Serpemts 1850 - Reaver Epiphany I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 15 2014, 20:39

I currently run two squads of 6 reavers, 2 units of 5 scourges and 2 razorwings with 3 squads of kabalites, 2 lots of 10 in raiders and one In a venom. Love the 6 fast attack.

It does give double targets and double the effectiveness. Just have to inflict huge amounts of pain, if things don't work out they can suffer and it be difficult. You have to wipe as much as you can to prevent them getting the late game objectives. Perhaps its too risky but it is fun!I personally might try splitting the warriors into venoms instead like in yours!

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egorey
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PostSubject: Re: Sky Serpemts 1850 - Reaver Epiphany   Sky Serpemts 1850 - Reaver Epiphany I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 15 2014, 21:41


Hmm ... somehow seems familiar. Well, it should indeed work - we discussed reaver spam elsewhere on this forum Wink

I like the idea of so many units flooding the table. Of course my ultimate flood list was dual archons w/lasters in venoms, single lhamaeans, 12 squads of warriors w/balster each, 6 reaver squads of three, 6 venoms - this realspace as well. The list has a slew of blasters and heat lances but the best part is the reserves trickle in and everything will get FNP etc. It is hard to deal with so many MSU units.

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Painjunky
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PostSubject: Re: Sky Serpemts 1850 - Reaver Epiphany   Sky Serpemts 1850 - Reaver Epiphany I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 15 2014, 22:24

@Sky Serpent wrote:
Thanks for the replies so far, you've all really got my creative juices flowing.

Is 3 squads of Reavers too much? I could drop one squad and add a second Razorwing.

I've realised that without objective secured, I shouldn't be so precious about my troops.

3 squads of 6 reavers is definitely not too much IMO. I find them invaluable. Their excellent versatility makes them real workhorses, they can do it all. My opponents hate them as they have to wipe them all out, not an easy thing to do, even a single reaver zooming around can change the game.

But that's just me, 2 razorwings is nothing to sneeze at and may suit your style.
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helvexis
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PostSubject: Re: Sky Serpemts 1850 - Reaver Epiphany   Sky Serpemts 1850 - Reaver Epiphany I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 16 2014, 08:06

3 squads may not be enough for how awesome they are Wink
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Sky Serpent
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PostSubject: Re: Sky Serpemts 1850 - Reaver Epiphany   Sky Serpemts 1850 - Reaver Epiphany I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 16 2014, 17:15

So below is my latest revision and revolves around dropping a Warrior squad in favour of a Ravager. I decided that so many warrior squads weren't ended and the Ravager adds some first turn anti tank that is otherwise missing.

RRD w/ Reavers

REALSPACE RAIDERS DETACHMENT

Archon, Husk blade, Shadow field, Webway portal, 160pts
8 Sslyth, 1 Lhaemean, Raider, Dark lance, Splinter racks, 285pts

5 Kabalite Warriors, Venom, additional Splinter cannon, 105pts
5 Kabalite Warriors, Venom, additional Splinter cannon, 105pts
5 Kabalite Warriors, Venom, additional Splinter cannon, 105pts

5 Scourges, 4 Heat lances, 120pts
5 Scourges, 4 Haywire blasters, 120pts
Razorwing Jetfighter, 2 Dark lances, 140pts
6 Reavers, 2 Blasters, 2 Cluster caltrops, 146pts
6 Reavers, 2 Blasters, 2 Cluster caltrops, 146pts
6 Reavers, 2 Cluster caltrops, 126pts

Voidraven Bomber, 2 Void lances, 160pts
Ravager, 3 Dark lances, 125pts

TOTAL 1843pts

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HERO
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PostSubject: Re: Sky Serpemts 1850 - Reaver Epiphany   Sky Serpemts 1850 - Reaver Epiphany I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 16 2014, 18:51

I like where your head's at, but I really don't like how expensive that Archon is and his unit is as well.

The changes I would make to make the overall list stronger:
-Archon to 110 points, WWP, Blaster - saves you 50 points
-Cut the entire unit of bodyguards - saves you 285

Total points saved: +335

-Add Ravager, 3 Dark Lances - -125
-Add 5x Trueborn, 4x Blasters, Raider Blaster, Aethersails, Night Shields - 195

Total points used: -320

Points remaining: 15

Reasoning to why:
The WWP Archon in Blasterborn gives you 6 lances where you need it, however you want it.  This allows you to range in from 18" from the tip of your Raider, hopefully in some cover, and hits ridiculously hard, essentially giving you 2 Ravagers in their backline, ready to do heavy damage.

The Ravager is added to give you additional anti-tank, which combos with your Venoms if you want to bust open any canned goods for the meat inside.  I find the lack of Blasters in your list disturbing, so hopefully with that 15 points I have left over, you can buy one for a Warrior squad in Venoms.  Otherwise, I would look into putting a Night Shield on the bomber, just so he has the option for a 3+ Jink if things go foul.

PS - I would take the blast lances on the bomber. It's just a stronger weapon overall vs. ground targets.

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Amornar
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PostSubject: Re: Sky Serpemts 1850 - Reaver Epiphany   Sky Serpemts 1850 - Reaver Epiphany I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 16 2014, 20:12

Good suggestions HERO...I don't think dropping the sslyth is an option for Sky...
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PostSubject: Re: Sky Serpemts 1850 - Reaver Epiphany   Sky Serpemts 1850 - Reaver Epiphany I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 16 2014, 22:11

@Amornar wrote:
Good suggestions HERO...I don't think dropping the sslyth is an option for Sky...

Then I would argue he doesn't have enough anti-tank and an over saturation of poison.

S8 AP2 Lance is not just our answer for vehicles btw, it's the answer to everything in life, Terminators, Bikes, Riptides, Dreadknights, Wraithknights that are exposed, basically anything T4 multi-wound (Oblits, Broadsides, Nobz), the list goes on and on.

We have plenty of anti-infantry in our army, and while that can be a good thing, it can be misleading when designing your list. We have to maximize on our lances if we're to make a big impression on targets with 2+ AS because we don't have reliable melee solutions to those. Poison is good, but not enough to punch holes in what we really need to down in most cases.  That's why you must have a healthy amount of lances in your army.[/quote]

Which is another reason why I don't like Scourges with HWB. They do absolutely jack crap to a lot of the targets I listed above.

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Sky Serpent
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PostSubject: Re: Sky Serpemts 1850 - Reaver Epiphany   Sky Serpemts 1850 - Reaver Epiphany I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 16 2014, 22:41

I really like your ideas HERO, I've been following your army list thread/blog with some interest.

Switching the Sslyth to Blasterborn is a very interesting idea. I've made quite a financial commitment with purchasing 8 of them and still want to see how they fare but I'll bear your idea in mind for the future and probably act on it too.

Enhanced Aethersails - I don't see why everyone is taking them? 5pts to go an extra 6' when going flat out?

I can't make my mind up about what weaponry to take on the Bomber. I like the blasts but find the lances safer, especially against enemy fliers.

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aurynn
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PostSubject: Re: Sky Serpemts 1850 - Reaver Epiphany   Sky Serpemts 1850 - Reaver Epiphany I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 16 2014, 22:56

Those 6'' can really make the difference between the initial positioning in safe cover and direct threat in T2. I am starting to be more and more inclined to the belief that T1 is not our most important turn. T1 is jinking turn, turn where we make our enemies cry in dismay as their whole army manages to kill one vehicle in the saturated field or an empty field with 10 reserve rolls just waiting to be rolled... T2 is where we present tough choices while our jinking vehicles still bear the brunt of the enemy shooting and from T3 we start the murder. Reserves are our friend even without the comms or autarch. We are just not there for the enemy to shoot us...

OFC Jink or Cover ignoring armies need deployment adjustments, but that does not change the fact that our game starts T3. I used to despise the fact, but now I am beginning to appreciate the sweet irony of it...

So aethersails yes, if you start on board. If you go DS heavy, dont bother with AS...
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HERO
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PostSubject: Re: Sky Serpemts 1850 - Reaver Epiphany   Sky Serpemts 1850 - Reaver Epiphany I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 16 2014, 23:18

@aurynn wrote:
Those 6'' can really make the difference between the initial positioning in safe cover and direct threat in T2. I am starting to be more and more inclined to the belief that T1 is not our most important turn. T1 is jinking turn, turn where we make our enemies cry in dismay as their whole army manages to kill one vehicle in the saturated field or an empty field with 10 reserve rolls just waiting to be rolled... T2 is where we present tough choices while our jinking vehicles still bear the brunt of the enemy shooting and from T3 we start the murder. Reserves are our friend even without the comms or autarch. We are just not there for the enemy to shoot us...

OFC Jink or Cover ignoring armies need deployment adjustments, but that does not change the fact that our game starts T3. I used to despise the fact, but now I am beginning to appreciate the sweet irony of it...

So aethersails yes, if you start on board. If you go DS heavy, dont bother with AS...

I would argue that Aethersails are even better in a DS list because you can correct a bad scatter with the extra range.

While AS is not mandatory, they're cheap enough to be spammed on almost all of our vehicles.  I would say they're more useful on back-field captures units like 5-man lancers, and less useful on gunboats because they really want to be moving 6" and rapid-firing every turn.

Either way, if you have the points, buy into them.  At 5 points, I use them as space fillers that give me more strategic value than a single Night Shield.

Quote :
Switching the Sslyth to Blasterborn is a very interesting idea. I've made quite a financial commitment with purchasing 8 of them and still want to see how they fare but I'll bear your idea in mind for the future and probably act on it too.

Of course, I understand.  Let me know how it goes, but do heed what I said about your Lance/Poison balance.

On the subject of the Voidraven though, S8 AP2 blasts have a larger kill ratio vs. a larger array of targets than singular lance shots.  Think about it from a point's perspective as well. If you're spending 160 on the damn thing, what's the best way to make its points back? However, the S9 AP2 lance that can shoot in the air is what's really making the difference.  You really have to ask yourself if you're missing out on AA, are there a lot of flyers in your area, and do you really want the VR to be shooting in the air rather than killing ground targets.

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