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 Dark Eldar Reaper Viability?

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ShamPow1999
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PostSubject: Dark Eldar Reaper Viability?   Dark Eldar Reaper Viability? I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 14 2014, 22:13

Now that Dark Lance Ravagers seem it have been hurt quite strongly with an increase in price as well as a loss of the aerial assault special rule, is the Reaper a more viable option?

Most armies will handle tanks with the use of haywire Scourges and a long-ranged haywire gun would fit right in. Right now I can only see Ravagers used for massed Disintegrator spam. Are you Archons still using them for AT, and if so, would you consider yourself maybe switching one or two for a Reaper?
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar Reaper Viability?   Dark Eldar Reaper Viability? I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 14 2014, 22:35

I'm going to run one or two myself, because they are beautiful, the haywire thing, but also the killshock rule for the stronger beam that causes instant death on a 5+ to models with toughness value.

Ok not the most reliable thing but certainly not to be sniffed at, especially at strength 7, though sadly ap3, but given how often I could pass my flickerfield saves I reckon its good for a few big beasties!

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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar Reaper Viability?   Dark Eldar Reaper Viability? I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 15 2014, 00:28

I have had two for a while and they are awesome! As they are str7 you get the str7 hit on a vehicle then the haywire d3 haywire roll on top.
When they hit they are pretty potent, I have ran a farseer to make them twin linked.
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar Reaper Viability?   Dark Eldar Reaper Viability? I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 15 2014, 01:20

I love the reaper for AT, it being a Beam is insane to push 2-4 vehicles a HP off for 1 shot.

Im thinking baout getting 2 and running them.

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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar Reaper Viability?   Dark Eldar Reaper Viability? I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 15 2014, 07:27

@amishprn86 wrote:
I love the reaper for AT, it being a Beam is insane to push 2-4 vehicles a HP off for 1 shot.

I'm afraid it doesn't work like that. Beam is simply the name of the firing mode, not a special rule of the weapon. It just hits the one target and does D3 Haywire rolls.

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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar Reaper Viability?   Dark Eldar Reaper Viability? I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 15 2014, 07:47

@Count Adhemar wrote:
@amishprn86 wrote:
I love the reaper for AT, it being a Beam is insane to push 2-4 vehicles a HP off for 1 shot.

I'm afraid it doesn't work like that. Beam is simply the name of the firing mode, not a special rule of the weapon. It just hits the one target and does D3 Haywire rolls.

FFS, I read it wrong, glad only play 2 games with it, I have the armor book, and Read it as beam in Profile but it isnt.

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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar Reaper Viability?   Dark Eldar Reaper Viability? I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 15 2014, 12:59

Are you talking about the dark reaper ( eldar ) ?
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The_Burning_Eye
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar Reaper Viability?   Dark Eldar Reaper Viability? I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 15 2014, 13:13

@Selvhan wrote:
Are you talking about the dark reaper ( eldar ) ?

No, the forgeworld Reaper - looks a bit like a raider with a bigger sail and a huge haywire blaster on the front.

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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar Reaper Viability?   Dark Eldar Reaper Viability? I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 15 2014, 13:45

I could never spend those points for a 1 shot weapon. My Dark Lance raiders always miss!

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The_Burning_Eye
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar Reaper Viability?   Dark Eldar Reaper Viability? I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 15 2014, 13:52

@Skulnbonz wrote:
I could never spend those points for a 1 shot weapon. My Dark Lance raiders always miss!

I know the feeling - Ravagers? never more than 1 hit, which fails to pen

I'm very tempted by the model though - it's cheaper than the voidraven!

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar Reaper Viability?   Dark Eldar Reaper Viability? I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 15 2014, 14:22

Apparently the Dark Eldar have lost the technology to twin-link their weaponry. Mad

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The_Burning_Eye
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar Reaper Viability?   Dark Eldar Reaper Viability? I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 15 2014, 14:29

@Count Adhemar wrote:
Apparently the Dark Eldar have lost the technology to twin-link their weaponry. Mad

Something I've always found highly irritating, especially since the Talos can! It's as though they think lances are more dangerous than they really are. Personally I think they'd have been better allowing less general access to Dark Lances but making them Heavy 2

But back to the Reaper - Love it!, the 5" blast is nice for dropping on that motor pool (yes, I have seen people put tanks that close together, and no, he wasn't a noob) for scourges/Talos etc to finish off, but if your opponent spreads the vehicles out the beam is still a perfectly viable option, especially when boosted by DL's on raiders.

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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar Reaper Viability?   Dark Eldar Reaper Viability? I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 15 2014, 22:54

as promised, my thoughts on Reapers. I used them in 5th and for a few games in 6th but haven't in 7th and probably won't now (the new codex ripped 800 points out of my usual 1500 point force and I need to buy extra kits to even make units legal and I'm refusing).

Anyway back to the Reaper.

It's now only 10 points dearer than the Ravager in A/T configuration (3 DL) which works strongly in its favour, before it was just way too expensive. You can also still add a Flickerfield which is a huge bonus as, in my experience this unit draws fire like no other. Maybe it's the fear of haywire, Forgeworld or maybe it's just because it's got a huge flipping sail and people assume it's nasty, I don't know!

It also keeps the old Aerial Assault rule which is handy too.

The gun is pretty good, but it is what I think is also its Achilles heel. If you don't take the flickerfield, or want the 4+ save you are going to need to jink - that means you are only ever firing the gun in beam mode and as snap shot. Sure you will hurt if you hit, but odds are against it. Also, the Reaper is still open topped, meaning that any shot that doesn't blow it to pieces has a good chance of knocking off a gun (more so if the firer has AP1 or 2) and it only has one. This vehicle can be rendered useless by being immobilised (the gun is fixed forward) or by losing the gun, which makes it more fragile than the Ravager.

I think you could make an argument by bringing it on from reserve, shooting the big thing for one turn and then expecting to lose it - but it's an expensive suicide unit - maybe for hurting those superheavy LoWs?

Personally, looking at points, 140 gets you Scourges with 3 dark lances which I think would probably be more survivable, and less of an obvious target.

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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar Reaper Viability?   Dark Eldar Reaper Viability? I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 15 2014, 23:01

I think they're good because of how versatile they are. They're especially useful at taking down Daemon Princes or Wraith Knights. If I did my math-hammer correct, then if you even wound a WK with it, it's instant death. I think it also helps us with anti mob, as S5 AP4 Large Blast Pinning / Concussive is very nice against mob armies.
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar Reaper Viability?   Dark Eldar Reaper Viability? I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 15 2014, 23:22

I think wraith knights are T8, so 5+ to wound? Still, if you wound it's a 50/50 you'll get ID on it.

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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar Reaper Viability?   Dark Eldar Reaper Viability? I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 15 2014, 23:55

Instant death for killshock is on a 5+ to wound. (The experimental rules != the rules in IA Apoc) (edit: ia apoc, not ia12, oops)

(Imperial Armour Apocalypse p104) wrote:
...[Kill Shock] inflicts Instant Death on a To Wound roll of 5+, regardless of the targets Toughness.
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar Reaper Viability?   Dark Eldar Reaper Viability? I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 16 2014, 00:08

@dhrakon wrote:
Instant death for killshock is on a 5+ to wound. (The experimental rules != the rules in IA Apoc) (edit: ia apoc, not ia12, oops)

[quote"(Imperial Armour Apocalypse p104)"]...[Kill Shock] inflicts Instant Death on a To Wound roll of 5+, regardless of the targets Toughness.
[/quote]

The problem with this is, it's "experimental rules", which is not 40k approved. So casual games are the only games you'll be able to field them in.
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar Reaper Viability?   Dark Eldar Reaper Viability? I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 16 2014, 00:12

I'm sorry, I wasn't clear:

The experimental rules here state that Kill Shock happens on To Wound rolls of 6. The actual rules, which are printed in Imperial Armour Apocalypse p104 state that Kill Shock happens on To Wound rolls of 5+. Strength 7 shot from the beam profile needs a 5+ to wound a Toughness 8 Wraith Knight, meaning any wounds are Instant Death.
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar Reaper Viability?   Dark Eldar Reaper Viability? I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 16 2014, 05:36

@dhrakon wrote:
I'm sorry, I wasn't clear:

The experimental rules here state that Kill Shock happens on To Wound rolls of 6. The actual rules, which are printed in Imperial Armour Apocalypse p104 state that Kill Shock happens on To Wound rolls of 5+. Strength 7 shot from the beam profile needs a 5+ to wound a Toughness 8 Wraith Knight, meaning any wounds are Instant Death.

On the page from imperial armor apocalypse, page 104, does it have the warhammer 40,000 stamp on that page?
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar Reaper Viability?   Dark Eldar Reaper Viability? I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 16 2014, 06:03

i've blurred out the rules for obvious reasons, hopefully this is ok.

Dark Eldar Reaper Viability? TzHPXlB
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar Reaper Viability?   Dark Eldar Reaper Viability? I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 16 2014, 08:30

Hey, looks legal to me. A lot of tournaments are allowing forgeworld stuff now, but limiting it to the most recent printings that have the 40k stamp of approval like that.
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar Reaper Viability?   Dark Eldar Reaper Viability? I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 16 2014, 09:02

As far as I'm aware, the most recent version of the Reaper is in the IA Apocalypse 2013 book and it 40k approved.

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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar Reaper Viability?   Dark Eldar Reaper Viability? I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 16 2014, 17:40

@Count Adhemar wrote:
As far as I'm aware, the most recent version of the Reaper is in the IA Apocalypse 2013 book and it 40k approved.

It is.

However, I'm concerned about 2 things:
1. Aerial Assault is no longer in the book as a special rule, does it mean its gone (since it refers to the old Dark Eldar codex.
2. Is it even good for the points? A little expensive for a single shot.

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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar Reaper Viability?   Dark Eldar Reaper Viability? I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 16 2014, 17:59

Aerial Assault was the rule that stated you could fire all weapons at full ballistic skill and still move cursing speed, since this vehicle only has one weapon, it doesn't really matter if it's there or not. It's an expensive shot, but I think it averages out better than a ravager (just straight up hull point damage) and you can take flicker fields with it.
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