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 Wych or Grotesque- The Better Tarpit

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lelith
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PainReaver
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PostSubject: Wych or Grotesque- The Better Tarpit   Wych or Grotesque- The Better Tarpit I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 10 2014, 03:17

Wych Tarpitting abilities: 4++, potentially T4, FNP 5+ in turn 3 on.
Wych Attacking abilities: I6, S3/S4 base (S4/S5 FC), 2/3 (3/4- 4/5 with Rage) attacks per model at WS 4/5. Drugs depending.

Grotesque Tarpitting abilities: T5, FNP 5+, 3 wounds per model
Grotesque Offensive abilities: Poison 4++, Lethal Dose, 4/5 (5/6 with Rage) attacks +D3 from Rampage (avg 2-3), S5 (S6 with FC)

Wyches are troops and are beneficial in a CAD list.

Grotesque can survive hammernators which would otherwise pulp a wych. Their offensive abilities are just better overall. And not to mention the virtually guaranteed reroll to wound at 3+.

10x, 2x Hydra Gaunt, Hekatrix w/ Agonizer, DC Raider w/ Sails + NS- 220
4x Grotesques, DC Raider w/ Sails + NS- 220

Grotesques may require a character in lieu of their low leadership value, but used properly, they shouldn't be taking all too many. In Turn 5, low ld values are moot anyway.

Thoughts?
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lelith
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PostSubject: Re: Wych or Grotesque- The Better Tarpit   Wych or Grotesque- The Better Tarpit I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 10 2014, 04:55

1. Grots also re-roll failed rolls To Wound against most of enemies with T4 or less (even against T5 thanks to FC).

2. ObSec may be nullified as I (arguably) prefer RRD and coven formations to CAD now.

3. They look more....grotesque! Wink

4. Above all, if you wanna use tarpitting grots (I expect a fleshhammer role than tarpitting), the coven supplement is your go-to choice: T2 FEARLESS! (and T6 IW...not sure of its usefulness though).

So I'm in favor of Grots.

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PainReaver
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PostSubject: Re: Wych or Grotesque- The Better Tarpit   Wych or Grotesque- The Better Tarpit I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 10 2014, 05:17

@lelith wrote:
1. Grots also re-roll failed rolls To Wound against most of enemies with T4 or less (even against T5 thanks to FC).

2. ObSec may be nullified as I (arguably) prefer RRD and coven formations to CAD now.

3. They look more....grotesque! Wink

4. Above all, if you wanna use tarpitting grots (I expect a fleshhammer role than tarpitting), the coven supplement is your go-to choice: T2 FEARLESS! (and T6 IW...not sure of its usefulness though).

So I'm in favor of Grots.

Already aware of the re-rollable wounds against T4> (and T5> with FC)

May have to find some way fit a Haemonculus though in my list https://www.thedarkcity.net/t10132-kabal-of-the-burning-glaive-1500-pt

And I only have access to the vanilla book for now.
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The Red King
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PostSubject: Re: Wych or Grotesque- The Better Tarpit   Wych or Grotesque- The Better Tarpit I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 10 2014, 06:16

Lelith just doesn't want other wyches getting the chance to surpass her lol

I'm on to you Razz

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Cavalier
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PostSubject: Re: Wych or Grotesque- The Better Tarpit   Wych or Grotesque- The Better Tarpit I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 10 2014, 12:26

I actually don't see it as an either or situation. I think Wyches absolutley need Grotesques to work. I've been saying this on various places across the web... but if you use Grotesques to multi-charge and absorb overwatch, and then have your Wych squads come in second targeting individual units I think Wyches would become very useful. With just a Hekatrix and a hydra gauntlet wych they are killy enough to probably break and sweep their units in the second round (with help from the Grots) while the presence of the grots will help them to get into assault again, or mitigate incoming fire if they end up wiping the units in the first round of CC. Its gonna be tricky but I think Wyches still work, and Grots are a big part of making em work. Gotta try it in games though.

Also the ability to prevent shooty units from doing their thing is priceless in 7th ed... so learning how to incorporate the assault phase into the DE arsenal I think is critical especially in tough matchups against gunline armies.

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PostSubject: Re: Wych or Grotesque- The Better Tarpit   Wych or Grotesque- The Better Tarpit I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 10 2014, 12:53

@Cavalier wrote:
I actually don't see it as an either or situation. I think Wyches absolutley need Grotesques to work. I've been saying this on various places across the web... but if you use Grotesques to multi-charge and absorb overwatch, and then have your Wych squads come in second targeting individual units I think Wyches would become very useful. With just a Hekatrix and a hydra gauntlet wych they are killy enough to probably break and sweep their units in the second round (with help from the Grots) while the presence of the grots will help them to get into assault again, or mitigate incoming fire if they end up wiping the units in the first round of CC. Its gonna be tricky but I think Wyches still work, and Grots are a big part of making em work. Gotta try it in games though.

Also the ability to prevent shooty units from doing their thing is priceless in 7th ed... so learning how to incorporate the assault phase into the DE arsenal I think is critical especially in tough matchups against gunline armies.

My extension to 1750, most likely includes a unit of Grotesques, in which my Succubus will then jump from the Incubi to the Grots (with one model being an Aberration with an Agonizer). Then my total assault units will range from Incubi, Grotesques, Wyches and Reavers, each specialising in a task, like the tools of a Haemonculus. All of them have the job to go in and kill lots of units and in turn protecting my gunboat raiders. The gunboat raiders themselves have the job of whittling down tough units, big giant monsters, and mopping up small units not worthy of assault. From then on to 1850 with the above, i'll add a small throwaway unit of Beast Pack worth exactly a 100 points.

But in my 1500, it'll be a Grot without an Aberration in place of Wyches, if playing RSR.

Because whilst DE has great shooting, some of its best tools are in assault.
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Lord Azrael
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PostSubject: Re: Wych or Grotesque- The Better Tarpit   Wych or Grotesque- The Better Tarpit I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 10 2014, 13:58

Quote :
4x Grotesques, DC Raider w/ Sails + NS- 220
thats only 215 or do i missing something?
Also the wytches could get a third special weapon
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PostSubject: Re: Wych or Grotesque- The Better Tarpit   Wych or Grotesque- The Better Tarpit I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 10 2014, 14:01

@Lord Azrael wrote:
Quote :
4x Grotesques, DC Raider w/ Sails + NS- 220
thats only 215 or do i missing something?
Also the wytches could get a third special weapon

it's 215, bad counting on my part. Only two in my list, because i hit 1499 pts.

But yes in the above case it should be 3x wych weapons.
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Cavalier
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PostSubject: Re: Wych or Grotesque- The Better Tarpit   Wych or Grotesque- The Better Tarpit I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 10 2014, 17:24

@PainReaver wrote:
My extension to 1750, most likely includes a unit of Grotesques, in which my Succubus will then jump from the Incubi to the Grots (with one model being an Aberration with an Agonizer). Then my total assault units will range from Incubi, Grotesques, Wyches and Reavers, each specialising in a task, like the tools of a Haemonculus. All of them have the job to go in and kill lots of units and in turn protecting my gunboat raiders. The gunboat raiders themselves have the job of whittling down tough units, big giant monsters, and mopping up small units not worthy of assault. From then on to 1850 with the above, i'll add a small throwaway unit of Beast Pack worth exactly a 100 points.

But in my 1500, it'll be a Grot without an Aberration in place of Wyches, if playing RSR.

Because whilst DE has great shooting, some of its best tools are in assault.

Totally agree... I think its important to start internalizing the idea that assault is vastly different than it used to be prior to 6th. Assault units have gotten more difficult to play across almost every army. Almost any premier assault unit that isn't SS/TH Termies or an MC -and especially Eldar/DE- needs a screening unit to go in before them. Whether its Wyches, Banshees, Storm Guardians or Incubi they all need either Grots, Wracks, Beasts, Scorpions, Shining Spears, Reavers or Wraithblades to go in first, and preferably multi-charging (though probably not with Reavers, and Spears) if you have multiple squads of Wyches, Banshees or whatever.

Taloi, Wraithlords, and even Wraithknights make a great 3rd wave assault units too so if your Grots, or Wraithblades are all banged up you can have the big boys come into absorb overwatch for them... allowing Wyches, Banshees et. al. to make a 3rd big push as well and not having to worry about overwatch and all the other perils of 7th ed assault phase.

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Crazy_Ivan
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PostSubject: Re: Wych or Grotesque- The Better Tarpit   Wych or Grotesque- The Better Tarpit I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 10 2014, 18:34

I would go with grots every time, now with the coven supplement making them fearless they have gotten even more resilient.
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PostSubject: Re: Wych or Grotesque- The Better Tarpit   Wych or Grotesque- The Better Tarpit I_icon_minitime

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