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 Night Shields

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clever handle
Kabalite Warrior
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PostSubject: Re: Night Shields   Night Shields - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 10 2014, 00:36

@Mushkilla,

5+ w/ no jink & thus full firepower on a venom is better than 4+ w/ jink & thus crap shooting (IMO).

Also, since 7th dropped, I really haven't seen ObSec being that big of a deal - ONE game out of perhaps 30, I've had an ObSec rhino be able to uproot some tyranid living artillery off of an objective... Once. That being said, my gaming group invariably has been playing full Maelstrom since we've been playing the "standard" (can't even remember what they're called now Embarassed ) missions for the last two years, and frankly we're all sick to death of scouring & relic.

Also, I don't do tournaments much anymore, but I spent all my time with the 5th edition codex going to tournaments & not once did I find myself with what I would consider sufficient LOS blocking terrain to hide even a fraction of my army - hell, a lot of the time even getting a coversave from anything but my own models was all but impossible. I would NEVER count upon having suitable terrain to hide for a 4+ / 5+ obscured save.

Also, SRF + necron solar pulse = profit. (there, a list without CWE allies!)
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HERO
Hekatrix
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PostSubject: Re: Night Shields   Night Shields - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 10 2014, 01:04

@Mandor wrote:
@Mushkilla wrote:
@PainReaver wrote:
Eldar Fire Prisms pay the same points for the same thing.

And so do AM's Camo Netting.

There's a difference Tau and Eldar get +1 to their cover save, meaning it stacks with stealth and night fight. We get stealth which doesn't stack with the stealth from night fight. Night shields would be a lot nicer if we could get a 2+ cover save when playing night fight.

Yup, same price, but Dark Eldar get a worse effect, of course. That's GW for you.

Autarchs have a great ability, comes with a 4++ and Haywires, for 10 points more than the Archon. Figuratively speaking, are you seriously telling me +1 WS, I and A is worth not having all that? I would trade it in a god damn half a heartbeat.

If you want to compare Eldar vs. DE, it's not even a remotely fair codex comparison.

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clever handle
Kabalite Warrior
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PostSubject: Re: Night Shields   Night Shields - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 10 2014, 01:51

Oh come now! Don't undersell the Autarch, you've missed that in those 10 points they also bring:

3+ armor save, compared to 5+
THREE unique abilities - which are all awesome for various reasons, compared to two - where only one is worth mentioning
- Ancient Doom is just an awesome fluffy rule that is done right.  It doesn't break the game but builds to the fluff providing a minor buff and a minor drawback.  Why don't Dark Eldar have this rule as well?
- Battle Focus. 'nuff said
- Path of Reserve manipulation.  Again.
Whereas,
- PFP builds to being pretty amazing
- Night Vision is.. ok I guess? good to have if you decide to try and play with night fight turn one and actually roll it.

The Autarch can also take wargear representative of each of the eldar aspects.

That being said, the Autarch competes with the seers.
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Hekatrix
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PostSubject: Re: Night Shields   Night Shields - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 10 2014, 01:53

You would think by now Archons figured out how to wear Incubus armor.

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PainReaver
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PostSubject: Re: Night Shields   Night Shields - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 10 2014, 02:14

Archon and Autarch double team with a DE/E airforce flying above them can be priceless.
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Timatron
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PostSubject: Re: Night Shields   Night Shields - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 10 2014, 02:17

I just talked about this in a video on Youtube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKJBubKLCdg
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The Red King
Hekatrix
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PostSubject: Re: Night Shields   Night Shields - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 10 2014, 06:25

Well if you bring imotek (before the new codex) and get lucky rolls, that formations night fight bonuses could last a while.

However you'll need it to dodge your own "allies" lightning I think.

For fluff fans, convert them up as a very "weird science" mechanical coven. Plenty of crazy covens in the dark city.

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Mushkilla
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PostSubject: Re: Night Shields   Night Shields - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 10 2014, 08:46

@clever handle wrote:
5+ w/ no jink & thus full firepower on a venom is better than 4+ w/ jink & thus crap shooting (IMO).

Venoms have a 5++ invulnerable save anyway so that argument is moot. Using cover and your own vehicles (Screening raiders with venoms etc) gives you the same affect. Finally you only need to jink if you get shot at.

@clever handle wrote:
Also, since 7th dropped, I really haven't seen ObSec being that big of a deal - ONE game out of perhaps 30, I've had an ObSec rhino be able to uproot some tyranid living artillery off of an objective... Once.  That being said, my gaming group invariably has been playing full Maelstrom

A Rhino isn't a raider/venom it can't move 30" ignoring intervening terrain in one turn to steal something with ObSec. In maelstrom ObSec on transports that can move like a raider are game winning, I would say arguably more so than in the eternal war missions. Why? Because you can use that ability almost every turn. It also draws a fair bit of fire away from the rest of your army as your opponent will need to shoot empty raiders to stop them from being so annoying.


@clever handle wrote:
but I spent all my time with the 5th edition codex going to tournaments & not once did I find myself with what I would consider sufficient LOS blocking terrain to hide even a fraction of my army - hell, a lot of the time even getting a coversave from anything but my own models was all but impossible.  I would NEVER count upon having suitable terrain to hide for a 4+ / 5+ obscured save.

Tournament terrain in 7th is a lot better than it was in 5th. But even so you only need one ruin to obscure your first transport and cascade cover to the rest. Even if you don't have a ruin, you can screen with venoms with flicker fields or 1-2 raider that can jink (as jinking doesn't affect a raiders passengers fire power), and the rest of your army doesn't have to jink at all. Even if your screening raiders get taken out those behind can alway opt to jink.

Another point is that good deployment first turn will keep your forces out of range of most of your opponents weapons, and the ones that do have range *cough* serpents ignore cover anyway.

Like I said the 5+ cover on troops for the first turn is a nice gimmick, but it doesn't give us anything we didn't already have.

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