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 To CAD or Not To CAD?

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Panic_Puppet
Wych
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PostSubject: Re: To CAD or Not To CAD?   To CAD or Not To CAD? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 08 2014, 16:17

I like the Realspace Raiders detachment. Mostly because the more I look at the dex, the more I think our strengths lie outside of our troops slots, so I'm likely to only be taking the minimum 2 troops units (possibly 3 on occasion). Objective Secured gets better the more troops units you have, and yes, I know we have fast raiders that have objective secured, but those aren't particularly likely to survive a 5 turn game (essentially if your opponent can't take down an AV10 open topped vehicle in 5 turns chances are you'll probably have a fairly easy time).

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Creeping Darkness
Wych
Creeping Darkness

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PostSubject: Re: To CAD or Not To CAD?   To CAD or Not To CAD? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 09 2014, 04:55

@MyNameDidntFit wrote:
I don't know how you can not find ObSec useful on our Dedicated Transports that count as Troops and thus get it. Being able to zoom over 30-36" and take an objective from under the enemy's nose is beautiful--especially in the Maelstrom mission where you can claim the enemy's cards.

I think anything above 1250-1500 I'll be using two CADs to get my 6 FA slots. But I need to do some testing.

I don't think it's particularly useful because I tend to find that one or more of these barrier conditions is true:

- My fast transport is dead
- My fast transport has disgorged its troops and is no longer anywhere near the enemy
- My fast transport does not want to be 36" away from the rest of its support when 50-66% of the time the game continues past the late game objective grab
- My fast transport does not want to be 36" away from its friends leading to defeat in detail in the early stages of a Maelstrom game
- The enemy's objectives are held too securely for my fast transport to physically approach within 3" of it
- There are no enemy left to claim or contest objectives

The last point is usually my aim Wink. In summary, I figure 6 FA choices will usually help more than a highly situational benefit on a very small percentage of my army.
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El_Jairo
Kabalite Warrior
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PostSubject: Re: To CAD or Not To CAD?   To CAD or Not To CAD? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 12 2014, 01:08

Thank you Darkness to put a new light on ObSec for me Very Happy
You make some valid points but I assume you are talking Eternal War and I am more thinking Maelstrom. If you can score each turn with ObSec than it really matters.
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Mushkilla
Arena Champion
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PostSubject: Re: To CAD or Not To CAD?   To CAD or Not To CAD? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 12 2014, 12:24

I think ObSec is a lot more useful in Maelstrom missions, where our transports don't have to survive until turn 5. Also ObSec increase the threat level on an empty raider considerably, which can be a real boon for target saturation.

The 5+ cover save granted by our detachment is not so appealing when you consider all our transports can jink for a 4+ cover save, hide behind a ruin for a 4+ cover save (something we don't need a formation to get).

Choosing to use the new Dark Eldar formation is not the clear cut decision, you get a first turn gimmick that you don't really need, and access to 6 Fast Attack choices (the real reason for taking the formation). However, you lose ObSec, which is a game winning special rule with our highly mobile dedicated transports. Not something to give up lightly.

Personally I would almost always go with a regular detachment and ObSec unless I really felt the need to take more than three fast attack choices, in that case though I would probably just take a second detachment instead.

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Mahakala
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PostSubject: Re: To CAD or Not To CAD?   To CAD or Not To CAD? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 12 2014, 15:24

@Mushkilla wrote:
I think ObSec is a lot more useful in Maelstrom missions...

Personally I would almost always go with a regular detachment and ObSec unless I really felt the need to take more than three fast attack choices, in that case though I would probably just take a second detachment instead.

I agree.  And empty, line breaking, ObjSecuring Transports are ridonkulously common and useful for me.  They are either being targeted instead of what was in them or they are flat-outing scoring me points.
For friendly games at my meta, we usually roll to randomize what missions we play, whether Maelstrom or Eternal.  Our army's adaptability is what makes this challenge fun.  

Having just played against the Sisters without any ObjSec units or Troops in my army, it did cause me a bit of a headache.  My Dark Artisan Formation with Haemi Warlord were surrounding an objective that I needed, but his stupid, empty, dedicated Rhino secured it, broken tread and all.  If the game hadn't ended in Turn 5, I think this simple fact would have cost me the win.  

A buffed out (my version at least) 6FA costs 1058pts -
5 Scourge, SolariteVB, 4hwb
5 Scourge,SolariteVB, 4HL,
2X(9 reaver, 3CC,3HL)
2X(RZWJF, NS, DLs, SC)

You throw your WWP HQ in there and you are already at 1200 pts.  No Troops, No ObjSec and fliers out of the running.  I think this comes back to bite you in the buttocks more often than not, while having loads of fun doing so.

Just my two pence

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PainReaver
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PostSubject: Re: To CAD or Not To CAD?   To CAD or Not To CAD? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 12 2014, 17:08

The thing is that the DE warlord traits are actually kind of good. By that I mean, if you run a Succubus, it's awesome. Tough luck if you're running a Haemonculus.

The rulebook traits are pretty situational imho, whereas the DE traits are just a passive bonuses that can be useful anytime during the game.

So CAD w/ DE warlord traits, but you don't get to re-roll in case you score a 1.
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Azdrubael
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PostSubject: Re: To CAD or Not To CAD?   To CAD or Not To CAD? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 12 2014, 19:06

Quote :
The thing is that the DE warlord traits are actually kind of good.

There is 1 great 4 meh and 1 terrible.

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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: To CAD or Not To CAD?   To CAD or Not To CAD? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 12 2014, 19:17

@Azdrubael wrote:
Quote :
The thing is that the DE warlord traits are actually kind of good.

There is 1 great 4 meh and 1 terrible.
#2 is good, #5 is functionally useless.
The others are on varying scales of okay as long as your warlord is an assault tool.

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The_Burning_Eye
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PostSubject: Re: To CAD or Not To CAD?   To CAD or Not To CAD? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 12 2014, 20:02

I think what i really like about CAD vs Realspace Raiders is that it's not a no-brainer. Sometimes CAD will be better for you, other times Realspace raider will be more important.

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Creeping Darkness
Wych
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PostSubject: Re: To CAD or Not To CAD?   To CAD or Not To CAD? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 13 2014, 03:00

@The_Burning_Eye wrote:
I think what i really like about CAD vs Realspace Raiders is that it's not a no-brainer. Sometimes CAD will be better for you, other times Realspace raider will be more important.

I agree, gotta love a choice that is actually a choice.

I admit I've only played Maelstrom once. But surely having your ObSec unit fly off to score a point from an objective (or deny an opponent a point) is rarely worth having them blown up next turn by the very unit they denied?

That's my problem with ObSec in a nutshell: it can be a very useful rule for durable units, which we are not.
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LSK
Kabalite Warrior
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PostSubject: Re: To CAD or Not To CAD?   To CAD or Not To CAD? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 13 2014, 09:38

I played a 1250 pts game last friday, against Tzeentch Daemons / summoning list.
Scenario was Will of the Emperor, with one additional objective in the middle of the table (3 obj. total).

I played a CAD, and I went second. I won 4-2 .
DE: linebreaker (1) + 1 objective (3)
Daemons : linebreaker (1) + 1st blood (1)

I was able to won only because I managed to drop a squad of 5 kabalite warriors (obsec) on one objective to secure it on turn 6, and then move / flat out their venom (obsec) to contest the one which was controlled by a unit of 10 pink horrors.
The last objective was held by a Herald of Tzeentch and contested by one ravager (with one poor remaining hull point ^^).

Fortunately there was no turn 7, I would have lost the last objective.

If you run RSR you should make sure that your firepower is high enough to deal with the number of troops your opponent can put on the table.
In my case he has summoned at least 400 additional points during the game.

I'm not sure I would have won without a CAD.

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