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Roc
Kabalite Warrior
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PostSubject: Scouting help/Intel needed   Scouting help/Intel needed I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 07 2014, 12:51

As with most, I am working my way through the new book and looking,to adjust my standard lists. However, I realize that I no longer have a decent understanding of what is out there on our enemies side. My playtime has become extremely limited (1 or 2 games a year) and need some help.

So: what are the biggest baddest single units we face? What hard counters to our list (guessing ignores cover, but while it's being mentioned I am unsure what we actually face that ignores cover outside wave serpents)? And finally, what opponent builds do people find most troublesome?

Also, gargantuan creatures? Where are these?

Thanks!
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jgascoine011
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PostSubject: Re: Scouting help/Intel needed   Scouting help/Intel needed I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 07 2014, 13:14

I imagine that tanks are going to be a pain to kill.
Scourges with haywire blasters will help this problem a bit but in reality, 4 shots, 3 hits, 3 glance, 1 saved by cover means that they still are not guaranteed to kill even a rhino.
However with no transport and about as tough as paper, they will deepstrike on, shoot at a tank and then be blasted off the table. but i kind of wish scourges were in heavy to help alleviate fast attack.

I think combat characters are a trap. With no real armour to speak of they are not survivable and anything that they kill could probably be killed by shooting.

The troops choice has gone from a possible 4 choices to now to really 1 choice. Wyches are just pathetic and so its only warriors.


The talon would be good but its way over costed by around 30-40 points.
The flyer is okay but again its stupidly over costed by around 60 points
The ravangers may still find a place in lists as distractions.


Dark eldar do anti-infantry very well. Personally i think skip raiders altogether unless you are taking grots (which are actually pretty good now), and just take venoms. 5 man warrior squads in venoms with a blaster and blast pistol will do anti-tank and anti-infantry.
Use scourges to back up anti-tank.
Blasterborn may be of use depending on personal taste but personally i would go for gots in raiders for some staying power.
Skip heavy support unless you need a flyer
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Mr Believer
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Location : Nottinghamshire, UK

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PostSubject: Re: Scouting help/Intel needed   Scouting help/Intel needed I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 07 2014, 13:43

@Roc wrote:
As with most, I am working my way through the new book and looking,to adjust my standard lists. However, I realize that I no longer have a decent understanding of what is out there on our enemies side. My playtime has become extremely limited (1 or 2 games a year) and need some help.

So: what are the biggest baddest single units we face? What hard counters to our list (guessing ignores cover, but while it's being mentioned I am unsure what we actually face that ignores cover outside wave serpents)? And finally, what opponent builds do people find most troublesome?

Also, gargantuan creatures? Where are these?

Thanks!

Tau have ready access to Ignores Cover through markerlights. Pathfinder units and drones have them, they are an extreme force multiplier and have to be gotten rid of ASAP. Eldar have Conceal/Reveal, which is very nasty if they're running a Seer Council. I can't remember if there are other powers in the rulebook that allow you to ignore cover too, Perfect Timing did previously... Astra Militarum have a profusion of weapons that ignore cover or make it useless, the Manticore being my personal "Most Hated." D3 large blast templates per turn for four turns, at strength 10, AP4, ordnance barrage. Barrage means that cover is worked out from the central hole of the template, so in open ground or against a vehicle it's essentially ignoring cover. The Wyvern is the new hotness, a heavy 2 small blast barrage with strength 4, Ignores Cover and shred. Marines have the Whirlwind, which I believe has an option to ignore cover, and the Thunderfire Cannon might do that too. I'd be surprised if Centurions couldn't too, but they're so hilariously dangerous anyway that ignoring your cover is practically the dusting of icing sugar on the pyramid of cherries topping a very decadent cake. All flame weapons will ignore cover obviously, making things like the Hellhound pretty nasty to us. The Heldrake is the bane of the Dark Eldar, even though it has taken a bit of a (sensible, and deserved) hit. Nothing in our army gets an armour save against it, it can clip our vehicles hard enough to explode them as it flies past, then torch another one, occupants taking D6 hits too.

Not having played the new Guard, I'm interested to see if they're still my toughest match up. I suspect they are. My opponent liked to run a Hellhound, a Hydra, two Manticores, two Vendettas and a Sanctioned Psyker squad. I am very glad those psykers have gone, but I suspect it'll still be a challenge. I find that combination does so much damage to me in the first couple of turns that even if I manage to start blowing stuff up later in the game, it's usually too late to get a win.

Everyone struggles with the Eldar Seer Council on jetbikes. Serpent spam is extremely nasty too.

In terms of gargantuan creatures, Tyranids have the Haruspex and Hierodule I think. Orks have a Squiggoth. Not sure about any others. I only recently faced my first super heavy vehicle - spent the entire game cowering from it, but not as scary as I thought - and have never faced off against a gargantuan creature, so can't help that much there.

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The_Burning_Eye
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PostSubject: Re: Scouting help/Intel needed   Scouting help/Intel needed I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 07 2014, 13:58

Centurions don't have ignores cover, you'd have to use a psyker with the correct power to give them that buff. They're actually a really good target for wyches, since a) they only have 1 attack each and b) they can't fire overwatch.

Don't forget the Wyvern has two of those mortars as well, so you're looking at four templates per turn, not two!

If you're worried about the seer council, you could always take a culexus assassin as an ally...

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Roc
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PostSubject: Re: Scouting help/Intel needed   Scouting help/Intel needed I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 07 2014, 16:06

Great information, thank you!

What about the things that are hard to take down? Obviously fliers/helldrakes, but have we had troubles with riptides or wraithknights?

Are there any bigger high T low invul. Save models out there?

And those G creatures-- are they in supplements or is the squiggly in the codex?
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Mr Believer
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PostSubject: Re: Scouting help/Intel needed   Scouting help/Intel needed I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 08 2014, 10:24

@Roc wrote:
Great information, thank you!

What about the things that are hard to take down? Obviously fliers/helldrakes, but have we had troubles with riptides or wraithknights?

Are there any bigger high T low invul. Save models out there?

And those G creatures-- are they in supplements or is the squiggly in the codex?

Gargantuan creatures are currently only in supplements as far as I'm aware, so things like Escalation and the Imperial Armour books.

Wraithknights and Riptides put out quite a lot of shooting (well, certainly the Riptide does) but poison takes them down like anything else. A Wraithknight is basically as difficult for us to kill as six marines. Easier, possibly, due to how visible it is. Just don't let it do what it wants, close it down as early as you can, and stop it regrowing wounds through psychic buffing. The Riptide has access to Feel No Pain and gets a 2+ armour save, though I think it gets less wounds. I'm not 100% sure on that though. Torrents of splinter weaponry will see them off though.

I think Daemons are supposed to be pretty nasty with some of the combos they can do. Grimoire of True Names and Iron Arm will potentially make units unkillable. It does something like increasing their toughness by 3 and improving their invulnerable save or something equally cheesy. Thankfully I've only played daemons once, and it was pre-seventh edition. It still went badly, determined for a rematch...

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Calyptra
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PostSubject: Re: Scouting help/Intel needed   Scouting help/Intel needed I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 08 2014, 19:23

For Space Marines, the Whirlwind and the Thunderfire can both ignore cover and don't need line of sight. One uses the large blast template, and the other will drop 4 of the small ones. I can't find anything in their codex about Centurions ignoring cover.

If it makes sense to get close enough, the Crucible of Malediction and the Helm of Spite should both make Seer Councils unhappy.

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