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 Court of the Archon - Lhamaean bomb ?

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Archon2589
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Archon2589

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PostSubject: Court of the Archon - Lhamaean bomb ?   Court of the Archon - Lhamaean bomb ? I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 06 2014, 14:18

Hi everyone. So before the new DE dex I received this lot of 20 wyches. Not that I saw they got nerfed, I thought : maybe I could use them as Lhamaean proxies ? Do you think a Lhamaean bombs could be something competitive ?
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Deamon
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PostSubject: Re: Court of the Archon - Lhamaean bomb ?   Court of the Archon - Lhamaean bomb ? I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 06 2014, 14:24

It would certainly be a scary MC hunting unit.
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Archon2589
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PostSubject: Re: Court of the Archon - Lhamaean bomb ?   Court of the Archon - Lhamaean bomb ? I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 06 2014, 14:27

Hello fellow Quebecer ! Do you think a unit of 9 in a raider with WWP would be a good idea ?
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Lord Azrael
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PostSubject: Re: Court of the Archon - Lhamaean bomb ?   Court of the Archon - Lhamaean bomb ? I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 06 2014, 15:34

Don't know if wpp help them much. Raider is fast anyway and with sails even faster.
So with wpp you have to ds in a place to hide them as they only got pistols for shooting and have to wait a turn until they can actually do something.

Same is true for a boosting raider except sails are much cheaper then archon+wpp
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Deamon
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PostSubject: Re: Court of the Archon - Lhamaean bomb ?   Court of the Archon - Lhamaean bomb ? I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 06 2014, 15:48

I'm not a big fan of DSing assault units. They can't do anything before turn 3 at best.

Azrael got it right imo, raider is the way to go.
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RikuXIII
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PostSubject: Re: Court of the Archon - Lhamaean bomb ?   Court of the Archon - Lhamaean bomb ? I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 06 2014, 16:09

Agreed on not DSing them. Concider either a couple (i'd say 2 should be fine) sslyth in the unit to soak up overwatch wounds. The 2 sslyth will also add a little to the shooting phase as you line up a decent charge target

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Lord Azrael
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PostSubject: Re: Court of the Archon - Lhamaean bomb ?   Court of the Archon - Lhamaean bomb ? I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 06 2014, 16:39

And if you really feel forced to DS, raider can anyway for free. They only have the scatter issue.
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Mr Believer
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PostSubject: Re: Court of the Archon - Lhamaean bomb ?   Court of the Archon - Lhamaean bomb ? I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 06 2014, 16:53

I'm really looking forward to trying the Lhamaeans out myself, they're going to escort my Succubus. Unfortunately that means I feel obliged to not use wyches, lest people think I'm deliberately misleading them! There are these beauties though:

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-EU/Dark-Elves-Witch-Elves?_requestid=731461

I don't care that their armour doesn't look like it's equivalent to kabalite armour. I'll just say they're really speedy or something Very Happy Not an abundance of places to stick a splinter pistol though. So to speak.

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Archon Rievect
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PostSubject: Re: Court of the Archon - Lhamaean bomb ?   Court of the Archon - Lhamaean bomb ? I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 06 2014, 21:00

@Mr Believer wrote:
I'm really looking forward to trying the Lhamaeans out myself, they're going to escort my Succubus. Unfortunately that means I feel obliged to not use wyches, lest people think I'm deliberately misleading them! There are these beauties though:

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-EU/Dark-Elves-Witch-Elves?_requestid=731461

I don't care that their armour doesn't look like it's equivalent to kabalite armour. I'll just say they're really speedy or something Very Happy Not an abundance of places to stick a splinter pistol though. So to speak.

I don't know, I have seen women sneak things and hide things in pretty ingeious places, once saw a derringer carried in the rear of bikini.. could not even tell!?!?!
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Mr Believer
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PostSubject: Re: Court of the Archon - Lhamaean bomb ?   Court of the Archon - Lhamaean bomb ? I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 06 2014, 22:38

I suppose nobody could possibly confuse them with regular wyches... I'm tempted to try and make wrist mounted splinter pistols for them, but I don't want to make a mess of such nice models. Some minor conversion and a nice paintjob, and I'm sure my regular opponents will be fine with them!

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Mandor
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PostSubject: Re: Court of the Archon - Lhamaean bomb ?   Court of the Archon - Lhamaean bomb ? I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 07 2014, 07:25

Nobody ever will field Wyches in the next five years anyway, so I'd say go for it.
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darthken239
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PostSubject: Re: Court of the Archon - Lhamaean bomb ?   Court of the Archon - Lhamaean bomb ? I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 07 2014, 08:27

Hell yeah ive had one wyche succubus with a venom blade take down and eldar wraithknight in 3 turns of combat.
I can just imagine what a squad of poisoned attacks could do to it. High Toughness, don't care, lots of wounds equals lots of saves, bound to fail a few.
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El_Jairo
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PostSubject: Re: Court of the Archon - Lhamaean bomb ?   Court of the Archon - Lhamaean bomb ? I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 07 2014, 11:12

@Mandor wrote:
Nobody ever will field Wyches in the next five years anyway, so I'd say go for it.
I don't know about that.
I used to call them "Lame-eans" because all they have got is 2+ poison in CC. If they had stinger pistols, it would have been a different story.
But they have the same cost as Wyches but don't get the drugs... and less I.

I just did some math hammer and this is what math says:
Lhamaeans do have 66,66% more combat kills on GEQ and 150% more on MEQ.
But if you look at the wounds coming back into the squad: then numbers turn.
Vs GEQ Lhamaeans take 25,93% less wounds but vs MEQ they take 11,11% more wounds in return from the squad of 10 they charged.
And this result will be influenced by drugs half of the time, on +1A, +1S or +1T.
I also did the math there (and hope I'm right).
With +1A Wyches win on both fronts: Lhamaeans take more wound vs GEQ: +11% vs MEQ: +18%
On +1 Strength vs GEQ it levels at -0,1% and + 15% wounds vs MEQ.
Toughness has the best result for MEQ: +23% wounds and Lhamaeans take -8% wounds vs GEQ.
And WS drugs only benfit to results vs MEQ for Wyches.

So I think Wyches aren't dead yet vs MEQ compared to Lhamaeans. But they are overruled if you go in for low saves. Vs Orks it would be awesome: 7,5 dead orks from 9 Lhamaeans on the 3A Charge. Wyches would only net you 3,8.

Now I didn't do the math for opponents with AP in melee but if you go monster hunting, I guess that  wyches survive better if the MC survives initial charge. Depends on how many wounds you did get off the MC as a 3+ save MC takes "only" 3,75 wounds from 9 Lhamaeans and 2+ goes down to 1,88 wounds. [Edit: assuming WS4+ on the monster; On WS3 you go up to 5 and 2,5 wounds (3+,2+)]

Wyches would need an Agonizer to anything of damage on a MC but I guess we have better candidates for that. I'm looking at you Inchor Injector wielding Talos.

PS: I thought FnP would shift things in favour of Wyches but it changes nothing in the %'s.
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Lord Azrael
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PostSubject: Re: Court of the Archon - Lhamaean bomb ?   Court of the Archon - Lhamaean bomb ? I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 07 2014, 12:03

Why should FnP should shift things in favour of Wyches? Both of them have FnP unless S6+ hits
The thing is Lhamaeans have 5+SV + FnP and Wyches 4+inv. + FnP

The only good thing about Lhameans is 2+ Poison and thus more wounds (with 1 attack base i wouldnt expect much ID dice and all of them allowing saves)

Whyches have invulnerable saves and grenades
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Mr Believer
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PostSubject: Re: Court of the Archon - Lhamaean bomb ?   Court of the Archon - Lhamaean bomb ? I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 07 2014, 13:14

@Lord Azrael wrote:
Why should FnP should shift things in favour of Wyches? Both of them have FnP unless S6+ hits
The thing is Lhamaeans have 5+SV + FnP and Wyches 4+inv. + FnP

The only good thing about Lhameans is 2+ Poison and thus more wounds (with 1 attack base i wouldnt expect much ID dice and all of them allowing saves)

Yes, but they only have to fail one of those saves. I'd rather know that they can put the wounds on there in the first place than rely on a 4++ to win in a war of attrition. Don't get me wrong, a 4++ is great on a troops unit. But wyches don't do enough damage in the first place. You just end up with a bigger squad running away, in my experience. Lhamaeans have a splinter pistol too, so the same number of attacks on the charge as the wyches, barring drugs. A squad of nine stand a good chance of getting a couple of instant death hits in on the charge, even more so if it's a late game charge with Rage. The more saves you can force, the better. That's the Dark Eldar way!

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El_Jairo
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PostSubject: Re: Court of the Archon - Lhamaean bomb ?   Court of the Archon - Lhamaean bomb ? I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 07 2014, 13:27

@Mr Believer wrote:
A squad of nine stand a good chance of getting a couple of instant death hits in on the charge, even more so if it's a late game charge with Rage. The more saves you can force, the better. That's the Dark Eldar way!
I disregarded ID in my math because of simplicity.

But as I hear your strategy: cause enough wounds so the unit is dead. That also implies that you Lhamaean squad will be out in the open receiving return fire from the rest of the army.
I for one can't wait for turn 6+ to gain Rage to go into CC. In my experience Dark Eldar are fragile and must do anything to survive counter fire. Killing off your immediate opponent is good but in early and mid-game they typically have friends to avenge their deaths Sad

So if you are looking for a bomb court, I would go 6 Medusae or Slyths with some Ur-Guls (to lower the price tag). One Ur-Gul might also be handy with the Lhamaens, if fear is triggered you will for sure clean the squad off the table.
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