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 Archons: load outs and uses

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Brom
Wych
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PostSubject: Re: Archons: load outs and uses   Archons: load outs and uses - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 05 2014, 18:19

The klaivex is the true combat monster of this book. Our HQs have really been reduced to unlocking portals and artefacts. Outside of allies I'm actually not sure the portal is gonna perform that well either.  Its a lot to invest into a unit that is primarily geared for combat or can accomplish its ranged goal better without the portal.

Quote :
Electrocorrosive whip is better then Agoniser on Abberation- you still wound on strenght, reroll to wound in most of the cases, and have concussive which in case of Grots can actually matter.
Right, against t3-4 its better where concussive is meh. My point is the abberations stats don't support the weapon like the archons does. ws/init- 7 is the deal breaker for me. Not that it matters since I use fuegan anyway..
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mika
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PostSubject: Re: Archons: load outs and uses   Archons: load outs and uses - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 05 2014, 19:00

Agonizer is now a poison weapon!

It means that it works pretty nice with soul trap,why not take both?
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Archons: load outs and uses   Archons: load outs and uses - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 05 2014, 19:30

@mika wrote:
Agonizer is now a poison weapon!

It means that it works pretty nice with soul trap,why not take both?

Because, as above, it's hard to justify a piece of wargear that literally only works if your opponent allows it to. rabbit
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Mushkilla
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PostSubject: Re: Archons: load outs and uses   Archons: load outs and uses - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 05 2014, 19:54

@The Shredder wrote:
Because, as above, it's hard to justify a piece of wargear that literally only works if your opponent allows it to. rabbit

But if a piece of cheap wargear makes your opponent refuse all challenges then it is having an affect on the game, even if it's power is never being triggered.

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El_Jairo
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PostSubject: Re: Archons: load outs and uses   Archons: load outs and uses - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 05 2014, 21:53

I am also tempted by the Agonizer Soultrap combo.
I feel the Soultrap improved as you now don't need IC or MC to enable it.
Even if it only results in seargents hiding behind their mooks. It is typically lowering the Ld by 1.
Agonizer you need to inflict wounds in the first place. Believe me I was a believer in England and it is though to pull off wounds on 5+ or 6+.
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Crazy_Irish
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PostSubject: Re: Archons: load outs and uses   Archons: load outs and uses - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 05 2014, 21:57

@Mushkilla wrote:
@The Shredder wrote:
Because, as above, it's hard to justify a piece of wargear that literally only works if your opponent allows it to. rabbit

But if a piece of cheap wargear makes your opponent refuse all challenges then it is having an affect on the game, even if it's power is never being triggered.

Exactly! I guess I'll be going the road of the feared and demoralising archon. Combining the armour of misery with the soul trap. If he refuses the challenge his unit will not be able to take his LD and has to pass the fear test on their own LD -2. As the char is often one LD above his troops, it's like having -3 LD on the test ;-)

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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Archons: load outs and uses   Archons: load outs and uses - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 05 2014, 22:04

@Crazy_Irish wrote:
Exactly! I guess I'll be going the road of the feared and demoralising archon. Combining the armour of misery with the soul trap. If he refuses the challenge his unit will not be able to take his LD and has to pass the fear test on their own LD -2. As the char is often one LD above his troops, it's like having -3 LD on the test ;-)

If we ever play a game, please do that to me.

My biggest concern is being assaulted and not fleeing. Getting stuck in a losing combat means I won't be able to shoot your unit and, in the likely event that the combat ends in my turn, you'll be able to assault another unit.

However, if you're throwing -2Ld around and taking my sergeant's Ld out of the equation, then my squad will almost certainly flee and I can sit back, relax and blow your squad to bits in my turn.
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Crazy_Irish
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PostSubject: Re: Archons: load outs and uses   Archons: load outs and uses - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 05 2014, 22:38

@The Shredder wrote:

If we ever play a game, please do that to me.

My biggest concern is being assaulted and not fleeing. Getting stuck in a losing combat means I won't be able to shoot your unit and, in the likely event that the combat ends in my turn, you'll be able to assault another unit.

However, if you're throwing -2Ld around and taking my sergeant's Ld out of the equation, then my squad will almost certainly flee and I can sit back, relax and blow your squad to bits in my turn.

It would not be the only thing I do to you I promise ;-) 'cause we all know that to master DE it is important to use synergy. If I would assault the bulk of your force with but one squad unsupported, sure then it would be a mistake I would hardly do twice ;-)
Though a rightful assault would leave your supporting troops crippled, thus ensuring a weak return fire. But that's all tabletop theories - nothing to write home about.

I just like the idea of using fear across the board - if you think I'm crazy, then you might be on to something ;-)

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Mushkilla
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PostSubject: Re: Archons: load outs and uses   Archons: load outs and uses - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 05 2014, 22:55

@The Shredder wrote:
then my squad will almost certainly flee and I can sit back, relax and blow your squad to bits in my turn.

Making someones idea look tactically unsound is easy, all you need to do is make an assumption that renders your opponents argument invalid. In this case you made the deliberate assumption that your opponent assaulted one of your expendable chaff units rather than something crucial to the mission or your own battle plan.

In my case to counter your argument I'm assuming my opponent is competent enough not to assault an expendable chaff unit of no value. Wink

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Anggul
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PostSubject: Re: Archons: load outs and uses   Archons: load outs and uses - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 05 2014, 23:57

I took huskblade, soul trap, combat drugs, phantasm grenade launcher and shadow field before. Now that huskblades have lost AP2, Archons can't take combat drugs and phantasms no longer let Incubi strike at initiative I think I'll go for agoniser, soul trap and shadow field now if not just leaving him bare.

I might take the helmet too. Seems amusing. The armour seems like a bad idea to me. I don't want the enemy to flee on the turn I charge them, I like not being shot.

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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Archons: load outs and uses   Archons: load outs and uses - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 06 2014, 12:22

@Mushkilla wrote:

Making someones idea look tactically unsound is easy, all you need to do is make an assumption that renders your opponents argument invalid. In this case you made the deliberate assumption that your opponent assaulted one of your expendable chaff units rather than something crucial to the mission or your own battle plan.

No, I made no such assumption. If anything, you're the one assuming that I was referring to a chaff squad.

Bear in mind that I believe very strongly in redundancy - so if a particular unit is important to my plan, you can expect me to have multiple such units in case one of them dies.

@Mushkilla wrote:

In my case to counter your argument I'm assuming my opponent is competent enough not to assault an expendable chaff unit of no value. Wink

I was assuming exactly the same, yet my argument remains unchanged.

My units are not meant to survive in assault. So, if an elite(ish) CC unit makes it into melee with them then they're doomed. Obviously I'd try to avoid this in the first place (e.g. making an effort to shoot down your transport, block charge lanes with chaff/transports etc.), but if it does happen then the unit is already dead. Simple as that. The only question is how long it will take them to die.

And, on that front, I'd rather the fight ended in your turn - letting me shoot the offending squad - rather than potentially dragging on and ending in my turn (leaving you free to assault a different unit with no retaliation).
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PainReaver
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PostSubject: Re: Archons: load outs and uses   Archons: load outs and uses - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 06 2014, 12:39

To solve the problem of people refusing challenges, wipe out the unit that the character is in, make a sinister smile and offer the challenge.

That said my loadout would be:

Shadow Field, Agonizer. 125 pts.

You can use this to tie up big monsters and hunt space marines.
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RikuXIII
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PostSubject: Re: Archons: load outs and uses   Archons: load outs and uses - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 06 2014, 16:25

With the soul trap + agonizer combo and the rules for poison, if my strength increased (lets just say to 10) will I now need 2's to wound marines, or do I merely get my rerolls to wound?

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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Archons: load outs and uses   Archons: load outs and uses - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 06 2014, 16:26

@RikuXIII wrote:
With the soul trap + agonizer combo and the rules for poison, if my strength increased (lets just say to 10) will I now need 2's to wound marines, or do I merely get my rerolls to wound?

I believe you wound them on 2s and get rerolls.
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Count Adhemar
Dark Lord of Granbretan
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PostSubject: Re: Archons: load outs and uses   Archons: load outs and uses - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 06 2014, 16:27

@RikuXIII wrote:
With the soul trap + agonizer combo and the rules for poison, if my strength increased (lets just say to 10) will I now need 2's to wound marines, or do I merely get my rerolls to wound?

Both.

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Lord Azrael
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PostSubject: Re: Archons: load outs and uses   Archons: load outs and uses - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 06 2014, 16:30

Agonizer will wound on 4+, if your strength is higher then your victims toughness, youre allowed to reroll. thats all.
2+ reroll agonizer would be crazy Very Happy

*edit*
Missed this sentence: "unless a lower result would be required". OMG 2+ agonizer IS crazy oO


Last edited by Lord Azrael on Mon Oct 06 2014, 16:33; edited 2 times in total
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Archons: load outs and uses   Archons: load outs and uses - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 06 2014, 16:32

That said, I think getting to S10 might be a bit tricky (if nothing else, that's a lot of combat turns Wink ).

Unless your opponent says to himself "Well, I've already fed 6 sergeants to that Archon, but I have a really good feeling about sergeant #7..." Laughing


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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Archons: load outs and uses   Archons: load outs and uses - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 06 2014, 16:38

You don't really need S10 though. S6 will deal with 90% of the models out there. Just don't go hacking at Wraithlords!

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Archons: load outs and uses - Page 2 YhBv3Wk
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Lord Azrael
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PostSubject: Re: Archons: load outs and uses   Archons: load outs and uses - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 06 2014, 16:42

Would be still S4 with 5 attacks or whats the problem with wraithlords?
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RikuXIII
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PostSubject: Re: Archons: load outs and uses   Archons: load outs and uses - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 06 2014, 16:48

So... Then I don't see the point of a huskblade. ID is nice, but the agonizer seems 9 out of 10 times more suited to the job

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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Archons: load outs and uses   Archons: load outs and uses - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 06 2014, 17:00

@RikuXIII wrote:
So... Then I don't see the point of a huskblade.

The Huskblade no longer has a point.

Virtually any character or MC you'd want to use it on has a 2+ save.

If they don't have a 2+ save, well that's what Splinter Racks and poisoned shooting is for. Very Happy
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lelith
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PostSubject: Re: Archons: load outs and uses   Archons: load outs and uses - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 06 2014, 17:03

@Sinisterjon wrote:
WWP Archon with blaster in a raider with 4 blaster born and deacon with blast pistol. DS, 6 lance shots (snapshots) flatout behind cover, 6" move next turn 5/6 lance shots. That's terminator killing potential, land raider mauling potential. Imperial knight killing potential.

In fact this is my plan for the game tommorow, except for Dracon upgrade.

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Lord Azrael
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PostSubject: Re: Archons: load outs and uses   Archons: load outs and uses - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 06 2014, 17:44

Passengers are not allowed to shoot when going flat out
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lelith
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PostSubject: Re: Archons: load outs and uses   Archons: load outs and uses - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 06 2014, 17:53

Of course. My plan is simply WWP/DS in the back of enemy vehicle and shoot it. No flatout.

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Archon Rixec
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PostSubject: Re: Archons: load outs and uses   Archons: load outs and uses - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 06 2014, 18:13

so, they are assault weapons, henche no snapshots Smile
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