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Evil Space Elves
Haemonculus Ancient
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PostSubject: Re: New Succubus mini illegally equiped?   New Succubus mini illegally equiped? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 06 2014, 06:08

@skullmonkeyz wrote:
so for the time being, it's "a dozen people from the internet" against the digitally released codex (and the model itself).

i'm still not convinced she's illegal :/

Or rather, it's the BRB and codex entry against the model. lol!

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Archon Rievect
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PostSubject: Re: New Succubus mini illegally equiped?   New Succubus mini illegally equiped? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 06 2014, 11:22

Actually If you want just model the Succubus as it is seen in the WD and codex, just make sure there is also a Sp on her or her stats... THAT way you can technically have her WYSIWYG and you just decide which weapon you use for the battle...... UNFORTUNATELY it makes no sense to have 2 PW type weapons, you have to choose one or the other,we cant stack the powers, hence everyone usually has 1 pw and a pistol of some sort.... unless weapon and shield... but I know we all know this....

I will get the model at some point, nice looking, really liked the orange yellow treatment they showed in the WD ,offsets the dark very well! I love you
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Deathula
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PostSubject: Re: New Succubus mini illegally equiped?   New Succubus mini illegally equiped? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 06 2014, 12:25

From what I'm seeing, you can replace the CCW with a Glaive. Then you can replace her pistol with something else if you want. THEN you can select option from the melee item list IE agoniser. Now would I equip both...No. But you can as per the codex. You wouldn't be replacing the Agoniser with anything just tacking it on.
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PostSubject: Re: New Succubus mini illegally equiped?   New Succubus mini illegally equiped? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 06 2014, 12:34

This needs FAQed for clarification.

Now - the question I have is can a pistol count as a melee weapon for the purpose of the melee weapon wargear restriction.

Pistols count as a CCW in the assault phase per the BRB.  Also, per the BRB, CCWs have a profile of S:User, Type: Melee.  So by definition, if it's a CCW, it's a melee weapon.

However, this would also mean that a pistol as a duel profile. So does 1 profile being a melee weapon count for the restriction?

EDIT: also - could you remove the pistol instead of the generic ccw for the glaive? (I would say no - that this interpretation would be a bit of a stretch).
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Garacesh
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PostSubject: Re: New Succubus mini illegally equiped?   New Succubus mini illegally equiped? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 06 2014, 12:39

I really can't get into the mindset that counts a Pistol as a Melee weapon for the purpose of wargear..

'A model may replace their close combat weapon with..' (Weapons of Torture)
'A model may replace its ranged weapon with..' (Heavy Weapons)
'A model may replace its Melee weapon with..' (Melee Weapons)
'A model may replace their ranged and/or Melee weapon with..' (Tools of Torment)

It seems like it definitely wants to discriminate between ranged and melee. Also, the expanded Wargear catalogue (I don't really know if it has an official name so that's just what I call it.. Pg101-through-109) lists Splinter weapons under the 'Ranged Weapons' category.
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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: New Succubus mini illegally equiped?   New Succubus mini illegally equiped? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 06 2014, 12:48

@Deathula - the only options a Succubus can switch out her pistol for are a blast pistol or (in combination with also switching out her CCW) some Wych Weapon options.

@Unholyllama - there is a difference between something 'counting as in X phase' and 'something *is* something'

Relentless lets me fire my weapons 'counting as stationary' but - I was not stationary, I simply count as it. If I *was* stationary than Relentless would be useless as I would need t be stationary to use it.

And, really, the basic question is this - even if you think it absolutely bcomes a CCW in the assault phase - do you think it is a CCW when you are buying the wargear options? There is nothing that makes it so, it won't be till the assault phase that it becomes a CCW, so how can you switch it out for something that calls for a CCW when it is, in fact, a splinter pistol and a ranged type weapon, not a CCW?


That said, I did find one way that you can make the model.
Start - s.pistol and CCW
Switch out CCW for Glaive
Buy a Djinn Blade off Artefacts of Cruelty (this is a type: melee item)
Switch the Djinn blade for an agoniser since it requires a melee weapon type for the switch.

Congrats - legal model!

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Laughingcarp
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PostSubject: Re: New Succubus mini illegally equiped?   New Succubus mini illegally equiped? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 06 2014, 14:39

@Thor665 wrote:
That said, I did find one way that you can make the model.
Start - s.pistol and CCW
Switch out CCW for Glaive
Buy a Djinn Blade off Artefacts of Cruelty (this is a type: melee item)
Switch the Djinn blade for an agoniser since it requires a melee weapon type for the switch.

Congrats - legal model!

Apologies if this is a dummy of a question... But wouldn't she then cost the extra 30pts for the Djinn blade even though she's not actually carrying it anymore? Since you're overriding it with the agonizer, yes?
Which is, y'know, bad.

Regardless of the above, I agree with Thor's interpretation that the pistol DOES NOT COUNT as a CCW for purposes of war gear selection and purchasing pre-game.

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Crazy_Irish
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PostSubject: Re: New Succubus mini illegally equiped?   New Succubus mini illegally equiped? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 06 2014, 15:45

@Thor665 wrote:

That said, I did find one way that you can make the model.
Start - s.pistol and CCW
Switch out CCW for Glaive
Buy a Djinn Blade off Artefacts of Cruelty (this is a type: melee item)
Switch the Djinn blade for an agoniser since it requires a melee weapon type for the switch.

Congrats - legal model!

Congrats - So you found the way i described in my first posting ;-) See, i was right. It actually is possible, it's just a riddle ;-)

And for the record, i also am sure that a splinter pistole is a ranged weapon, 'cause as you said, it's in the melee section of the book.


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skullmonkeyz
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PostSubject: Re: New Succubus mini illegally equiped?   New Succubus mini illegally equiped? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 06 2014, 15:57

soooo, just to reiterate - had the glaive existed in the 5th edition codex, it would have been totally possible to equip her like that.

translation from 5th ed german codex: replace CCW and / or splinter pistol with:
- venom blade
- yadda yadda yadda all the other non-wych weapon stuff

and now, with the new codex and the release of the model doing exactly this^
you say it isn't possible to do anymore, or only possible by buying an item, overriding it, thus never use it and just pay extra.

i still don't think that this is correct i'm afraid :<
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Calyptra
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PostSubject: Re: New Succubus mini illegally equiped?   New Succubus mini illegally equiped? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 06 2014, 22:20

There was an Archon model back in 3rd ed that was never released because she was equipped illegally (Archons couldn't take blasters back then).

Of course, it's a much smaller lost investment to not release a metal model than a plastic one.

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Barking Agatha
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PostSubject: Re: New Succubus mini illegally equiped?   New Succubus mini illegally equiped? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 06 2014, 22:57

I think this suggests that our codex was rushed. It's the kind of thing that would have been easily caught and fixed in an editing pass, unless they just didn't have time for an editing pass and had to go to print with what they had.

It makes me wonder what else might have been changed if they'd had a little more time? A few little adjustments to *ahem* wyches? Hellions? Maybe they meant to give Vector Dancer to our aeroplanes but it was still undecided at the deadline? Who knows. Smile

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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: New Succubus mini illegally equiped?   New Succubus mini illegally equiped? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 06 2014, 23:07

@Laughingcarp wrote:
Apologies if this is a dummy of a question... But wouldn't she then cost the extra 30pts for the Djinn blade even though she's not actually carrying it anymore? Since you're overriding it with the agonizer, yes?
Which is, y'know, bad.
Yes.
And, yes, it's bad.
But it's legal.

@Crazy Ivan - yeah, I missed that. You're incorrect about the pistol but otherwise did see it.

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Crazy_Irish
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PostSubject: Re: New Succubus mini illegally equiped?   New Succubus mini illegally equiped? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 07 2014, 01:50

@Thor665 wrote:

@Crazy Ivan - yeah, I missed that. You're incorrect about the pistol but otherwise did see it.

Did you mean me? As C. Ivan did not post here ;-) And where was i incorrect about the pistol?

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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: New Succubus mini illegally equiped?   New Succubus mini illegally equiped? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 07 2014, 08:14

You said you would switch out the Djin Blade for the pistol - you would not, you simply aquire it. At the end of the day, the Succubus would still have the s.pistol.

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PostSubject: Re: New Succubus mini illegally equiped?   New Succubus mini illegally equiped? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 07 2014, 08:25

@Thor665 wrote:
You said you would switch out the Djin Blade for the pistol - you would not, you simply aquire it. At the end of the day, the Succubus would still have the s.pistol.

Note 5 in the wargear list confirms that the Djinn blade replaces either the melee or the ranged weapon. Interestingly, the parasites kiss also has this same note, which means if you wanted to you could give the Archon a blaster/blast pistol and the parasites kiss, then you could use them both with the gunslinger rule!

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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: New Succubus mini illegally equiped?   New Succubus mini illegally equiped? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 07 2014, 09:01

You are correct, the Crazy one had it right then and I was wrong.

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Garacesh
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PostSubject: Re: New Succubus mini illegally equiped?   New Succubus mini illegally equiped? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 22 2014, 08:36

Succubus entry has been errata'd

http://www.blacklibrary.com/Downloads/Product/PDF/Warhammer-40k/7th-faq/Dark_Eldar_v1.0_Oct14.pdf

Page 72 - Succubus, Options
Change the first option to:
'May replace close combat weapon or splinter pistol with an archite glaive, 20 pts'
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Unholyllama
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PostSubject: Re: New Succubus mini illegally equiped?   New Succubus mini illegally equiped? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 22 2014, 08:41

OMG new FAQs?!?

In all seriousness - glad they updated the succubus so it's now a legal configuration.


Last edited by Unholyllama on Wed Oct 22 2014, 08:42; edited 1 time in total
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The_Burning_Eye
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PostSubject: Re: New Succubus mini illegally equiped?   New Succubus mini illegally equiped? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 22 2014, 08:41

excellent, so the other change is that you replace the words' close combat weapon' with 'melee weapon' in the weapons of torture section, but there's no change to the wording of the splinter rack rule...guess it must be as written then! Razz

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: New Succubus mini illegally equiped?   New Succubus mini illegally equiped? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 22 2014, 08:50

Most of the other FAQs seem to be pretty trivial. Main one is that super heavy walkers double the highest dice when moving through cover.

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Unholyllama
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PostSubject: Re: New Succubus mini illegally equiped?   New Succubus mini illegally equiped? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 22 2014, 08:53

Khorne Chariots in Daemons got a new rule if they get into assault.

But yea - the big one to me is that they finally addressed "how do super heavy walkers handle difficult terrain".

Most of the space wolf updates are correcting book typos/exclusions that were already in the epub version.
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PostSubject: Re: New Succubus mini illegally equiped?   New Succubus mini illegally equiped? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 23 2014, 04:33

now that the succubus's default model loadout is legal - is there a benefit for taking both archite glaive and agoniser? The poison rule obviously doesnt allow the rerolls when using the higher strength of the archite glaive. The agoniser would help if she goes up against tougher things than what the archite glaive can help with (MCs etc)

But is it worth it? It looks damn cool on the model, the agoniser and archite glaive together - lot of dynamism in the pose. But I still don't see the worth of having both, seems too expensive.
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PostSubject: Re: New Succubus mini illegally equiped?   New Succubus mini illegally equiped? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 23 2014, 04:57

the agoniser will be very situational in my mind, if you manage to roll +1S on drugs and charge with FC then it would work better, but by then (and with those increases) the Glaive could strike at S6 and so would be wounding on a lower score against T4 and T5 anyway. Agoniser might be a better option if you're planning on running the Succubus with Grotesques against MC's, but to be honest, the Archon is a cheaper delivery method then anyway and isn't likely to suffer much in comparison, and his leadership probably more than makes up for deficiency in I and WS

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Its_Rumble
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PostSubject: Succubus FAQ'ed   New Succubus mini illegally equiped? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 31 2014, 17:32

http://www.blacklibrary.com/Downloads/Product/PDF/Warhammer-40k/7th-faq/Dark_Eldar_v1.0_Oct14.pdf

Now the Succubus can exchange its splinter pistol for a archite glaive and can replace the melee weapon for an agoniser.

There you go palls.

I don't know if it has been posted elsewhere.

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PostSubject: Re: New Succubus mini illegally equiped?   New Succubus mini illegally equiped? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSat Nov 01 2014, 10:48

YES!

I was so worried that I couldn't spend +50 points to have two melee-weapons on a succubus that do nothing to add to the other one whatsoever!
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