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Painjunky
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PostSubject: FA formation is the new hotness!   FA formation is the new hotness! I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 01 2014, 12:58

So I've cried tears of blood over the loss of haywire and bladevanes and everything else but now i'm over it and i'm ready to let the darklight in and focus on what we do have (if the rumous are to be believed).

So yeah you know that new formation with the 6 FA choices, your going to see a hell of a lot of that, know why? That's right because FA is the new hotness!

1. Scourges are making a big comeback. They have dropped some points and are packing heat with 4 heavy/specials at min unit size. Not bad at all. I want to drop 4 heatlances behind my buddies Knight and see the HPs drop. Many will want at least 2 units of the bird-dudes.

2. Reavers may have lost bladevanes and that blows but now they are down to a lean 16pts each if the rumours don't deceive me. So that's 6 reavers and 2 heatlances for a measly 120pts! Bargain! 2units of these flying around scoring obj and taking shots at rear armour please.

3. Razorwing is now FA. Bout time! 130pts for one stock with dizzies, hells yeah!

4. Solo venom or raider... always useful. Doubly so if you take our goody goody cousins.

5. BMs. I know this one is a long shot. I know the beasts got a nerf BUT majority T4 with the khymera is cool and may offset the drop in the invuln. Also I believe Clawed fiends get a points discount. A multi-wound, majority T5, S5, clawed fiend unit will rip up anything with rear armour 10 and many light/depleted units. Depending on points it could work, we will see.

So there it is. Hmm, I think I may need more than 6 FA choices at 2000pts actually...
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The_Burning_Eye
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PostSubject: Re: FA formation is the new hotness!   FA formation is the new hotness! I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 01 2014, 13:12

so take two formations!

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Elzadar
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PostSubject: Re: FA formation is the new hotness!   FA formation is the new hotness! I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 01 2014, 13:28

@The_Burning_Eye wrote:
so take two formations!

They are called detachments, not formations Razz

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Klaivex Charondyr
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PostSubject: Re: FA formation is the new hotness!   FA formation is the new hotness! I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 01 2014, 14:08

So and when you get all that shiny stuff in your 6 FA slots... where is your objective secured troops that make you actually win the game?
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clively
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PostSubject: Re: FA formation is the new hotness!   FA formation is the new hotness! I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 01 2014, 14:44

@Klaivex Charondyr wrote:
So and when you get all that shiny stuff in your 6 FA slots... where is your objective secured troops that make you actually win the game?

In all of the games under 7th I've played so far, ObjSec units have not been necessary - and I've used my DE, GK, Daemons, CSM and regular marines against a similar range of opponents.  Probably 70% of those games were Maelstrom where we agreed to discard cards that were impossible to perform.  

Under maelstrom, speed is far more important than objsec as you are constantly moving from one spot to another.  From a tactical perspective, it's completely to our advantage to do everything we can to ensure the objectives are spread out as far as possible.

Under the regular missions, speed and heavy hitting units are what's important. And, again, objective placement is crucial. When facing a drop pod army we have the tools to concentrate our firepower. remove their troops, redeploy and repeat.

If I try to look at the new codex with an open mind, then having 6 FA slots, cheap Reavers and the fliers no longer competing with our heavy choices, then we have been given a huge advantage.  That said, I'll still continue to bemoan the loss of bladevanes  - my opponents absolutely hated them as I frequently used them to full effect.

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The_Burning_Eye
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PostSubject: Re: FA formation is the new hotness!   FA formation is the new hotness! I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 01 2014, 15:06

@Elzadar wrote:
@The_Burning_Eye wrote:
so take two formations!

They are called detachments, not formations Razz

D'OH! That'll teach me to sneakily post while i'm at work thinking about other stuff!

ObSec: It's won me one game since May, and I average at least one game a week.

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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: FA formation is the new hotness!   FA formation is the new hotness! I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 01 2014, 15:35

With the way detachments work I will admit I found the idea of this formation slightly silly. I guess it spares me having to field 4 Troops and 2 HQs...but I mostly do that anyway, and suspect with the new book I will as well, and at that stage the 6 FA slots are a given. I'd have to be pretty blown away by the FA options to consider the formation remotely exciting.

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Massaen
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PostSubject: Re: FA formation is the new hotness!   FA formation is the new hotness! I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 01 2014, 15:38

speaking of formations... I wonder if we get any though?

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The_Burning_Eye
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PostSubject: Re: FA formation is the new hotness!   FA formation is the new hotness! I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 01 2014, 15:51

@Massaen wrote:
speaking of formations... I wonder if we get any though?

I'd hope so, some of the others I've got are quite interesting - not game breaking, but nicely flavoursome.

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Crazy_Ivan
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PostSubject: Re: FA formation is the new hotness!   FA formation is the new hotness! I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 01 2014, 15:56

I guess the advantage of having an battle forged army is re-rolling the warlord trait, especially using if using our own ones.
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Bleaksoul Brethren
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PostSubject: Re: FA formation is the new hotness!   FA formation is the new hotness! I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 01 2014, 16:07

For 2 HQ and 4 Troops you can field 12 FA (if the requirements are the same 1 HQ 2 Troop). That's just ridiculously awesome! 6, 5 man Scourges (4 lances in each) and 6, 6 man Reavers (2 lances in each) is just funny thinking about it. Not to mention the scourges can change their loadout of you dont want them to tank hunt.
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Dat_Other_Guy
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PostSubject: Re: FA formation is the new hotness!   FA formation is the new hotness! I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 01 2014, 16:32

Just thought of bringing 6 Jetbike units made my dream come true! although i still want an archon on a jetbike! >Very Happy
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Bleaksoul Brethren
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PostSubject: Re: FA formation is the new hotness!   FA formation is the new hotness! I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 01 2014, 17:26

Ah, if only i had that many jetbikes I'd play an unbound list with them before the new codex....
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Painjunky
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PostSubject: Re: FA formation is the new hotness!   FA formation is the new hotness! I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 01 2014, 22:12

Can you take a detachment the same as your primary? If so, hell do that instead! Cool If you like to bring Eldar allies this formation will allow you to bring 6 FA without the extra HQ + troops if you don't have the points or don't want to take them.

Also I usually just take 2 troops + transports minimum for Obsec. I'm more in the speed + firepower camp.

There are other posts where people can have the Obsec pros and cons discussion.

I really want to focus on the changes to our FA which I think have a lot of potential!
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Trystis
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PostSubject: Re: FA formation is the new hotness!   FA formation is the new hotness! I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 02 2014, 06:18

@Painjunky, thanks for initiating a constructive thread! I was thinking about this detachment also. I was planning on getting another 5 scourge for a total of 10 and running them in two groups, one with heat lances and one with haywire depending on cost. I was waiting for an excuse to get more of these guys.

Currently I have 9 jet bikes so I'm having trouble deciding how to field them, 3 groups of 3, 6 and a 3, or keep them as a group of 9. I was wondering what people's thoughts are on it. I my get 3 more for a total of 12, then I will probably use 2 groups of 6. I think the HoW attacks from caltrops might have some use against light tanks as well, so I am waiting for the codex to think about their gear.

Then I love my razorwing which has always performed well for me in multiple rolls, but now is Fast attack. Excellent.

With the formation I should be able to field all of that which is quite a bit of anti-tank before even going to other slots. It also frees my heavy up to try out a chronos in addition to my ravager and talos.

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lelith
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PostSubject: Re: FA formation is the new hotness!   FA formation is the new hotness! I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 02 2014, 06:59

And also we can try a flyer spam now. If you don't like the term 'spam', then let's say Dark Eldar Air Force Wink consisting of 6+ fighters and 1-3 bombers.

I know this would be weaker than the sidespam due to our paper armor, but I believe the list would be fun to play in friendly games.

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Painjunky
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PostSubject: Re: FA formation is the new hotness!   FA formation is the new hotness! I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 02 2014, 21:59

@Trystis wrote:
@Painjunky, thanks for initiating a constructive thread! I was thinking about this detachment also. I was planning on getting another 5 scourge for a total of 10 and running them in two groups, one with heat lances and one with haywire depending on cost. I was waiting for an excuse to get more of these guys.

Currently I have 9 jet bikes so I'm having trouble deciding how to field them, 3 groups of 3, 6 and a 3, or keep them as a group of 9. I was wondering what people's thoughts are on it. I my get 3 more for a total of 12, then I will probably use 2 groups of 6. I think the HoW attacks from caltrops might have some use against light tanks as well, so I am waiting for the codex to think about their gear.

Then I love my razorwing which has always performed well for me in multiple rolls, but now is Fast attack. Excellent.

With the formation I should be able to field all of that which is quite a bit of anti-tank before even going to other slots. It also frees my heavy up to try out a chronos in addition to my ravager and talos.


Your welcome mate!

I really think DE FA spam may be a thing. As you said we can pack in a ton of AT which we need.

I too have 9 reavers, I will most probably pick up another box of 3 and run 2 groups of 6.

At 2000 pts I can see myself taking DE primary + this detachment. I'm thinking
2-3 6 man reavers
2-3 5 man scourge
BMs
1-2 Razorwing
1-2 solo venoms or raiders.

So 7 FA minimum, tons of speed, AT and AI. Twisted Evil

@lelith I hadn't thought of DE flyerspam. Combined with a resilient ground force with coms that could be heaps of fun!
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Larndorn
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PostSubject: Re: FA formation is the new hotness!   FA formation is the new hotness! I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 02 2014, 23:52

Heck having FA slots open to buy transports for Eldar Units will be fun. I can throw Scorpions/Banshees/Wraithguard in these empty transports and that frees up their Wave Serpents for damage doing/tank shocking

I like the idea of an Air Force, using a Fighter Screen for the Bombers, you still get cover on flyers if they are obscured and what better way than to have another flyer in front of it? (I am thinking mostly about Interceptor Tau and Quadguns for this)
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Mr Believer
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PostSubject: Re: FA formation is the new hotness!   FA formation is the new hotness! I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 03 2014, 00:57

@Trystis wrote:

Currently I have 9 jet bikes so I'm having trouble deciding how to field them, 3 groups of 3, 6 and a 3, or keep them as a group of 9. I was wondering what people's thoughts are on it. I my get 3 more for a total of 12, then I will probably use 2 groups of 6. I think the HoW attacks from caltrops might have some use against light tanks as well, so I am waiting for the codex to think about their gear.

I'd agree with Painjunky, get another box and run them as two groups of six. Nine with three heavy weapons is too expensive, three won't do anything. Six is a decent threat that your enemy can't afford to ignore once they boost behind his armour. And if there's something that absolutely has to die, send both squads after it. Whatever they're chasing can only scratch one of those itches at best, leaving two heat lances (my personal choice - Reavers can get close enough to make excellent use of them, then withdraw) to hopefully get the job done.

Larndon wrote:

Heck having FA slots open to buy transports for Eldar Units will be fun. I can throw Scorpions/Banshees/Wraithguard in these empty transports and that frees up their Wave Serpents for damage doing/tank shocking

This, all day long. I feel like we don't need to rely on Eldar allies now to be competitive. But we can both make up for deficiencies the other has...

"Poor Dark Eldar, you don't have psykers! Have the best in the game! Take some multi-shot mid-strength weaponry while you're here, it'll only go to waste otherwise."

"Poor Craftworlders, you can't assault out of vehicles! Here you go, take a stupidly affordable assault platform. Whilst you're at it, would you like it to arrive exactly where you want? There you go. Isn't that nice?"

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Grokfog
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PostSubject: Re: FA formation is the new hotness!   FA formation is the new hotness! I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 09 2014, 08:08

@lelith wrote:
And also we can try a flyer spam now. If you don't like the term 'spam', then let's say Dark Eldar Air Force Wink consisting of 6+ fighters and 1-3 bombers.

I know this would be weaker than the sidespam due to our paper armor, but I believe the list would be fun to play in friendly games.

I thought of this as soon as I saw the detachment. 24 monoscythe missiles, 12 shatterfield missiles and 3 void mines? Should put the fear of empty gods into opponents! Of course, I'm going to have to remortgage my firstborn child to afford it, but it should be a laugh Very Happy
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darthken239
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PostSubject: Re: FA formation is the new hotness!   FA formation is the new hotness! I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 09 2014, 08:44

I love the reaver's, back in the day when archons/drachons could ride i use to run 18 of them.

Opening up 6 FA slots is just awesome, i already have 12 jetbikes, 10 scourges and a jetfighter ready to fill those slots.
A few games to see what works the best will decide my next purchase
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HokutoAndy
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PostSubject: Re: FA formation is the new hotness!   FA formation is the new hotness! I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 09 2014, 08:50

Realspace Raiders detachment's compulsory units are... 1HQ, 2Troops, 1FA.

If you choose this as your primary detachment you can STILL REROLL WARLORD TRAITS! So all you're losing is objective secured.

Remember it's only the TROOP units that get 5+ cover saves, every other slot gets only 6+. To maximize that you may want to go with Nightshield Raiders as troops so they'll have a 4+ cover save on 1st turn. Venoms can't take Nightshields and have a 5+ inv flickerfield anyways.

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The_Burning_Eye
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PostSubject: Re: FA formation is the new hotness!   FA formation is the new hotness! I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 09 2014, 09:11

@HokutoAndy wrote:
If you choose this as your primary detachment you can STILL REROLL WARLORD TRAITS!

Close, you can still re-roll warlord traits if you choose the DE warlord trait table

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darthken239
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PostSubject: Re: FA formation is the new hotness!   FA formation is the new hotness! I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 13 2014, 03:47

And that cover save is when you standing out in the open. Through in some NS and some ruins and your set for a 2+ cover save.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: FA formation is the new hotness!   FA formation is the new hotness! I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 13 2014, 09:25

@darthken239 wrote:
And that cover  save is when you standing out in the open.  Through in some NS and some ruins  and your set for a 2+ cover save.

Sadly not. The cover save doesn't stack with other sources of cover saves. So if you were in ruins you would use the 4+ that they provide instead of the 5+/6+ from the detachment rules. You would still get the +1 from Night Shields as that is a modifier to the cover save.

If Hunt from the Shadows read "During the entire first game turn, and during any turn in which the Night Fighting rules are in effect, all Fast Attack units from this Detachment have the Shrouded special rule." then I'd be all over it as it stacks with Stealth from Night Fight or Night Shields and also stacks with terrain so it would be very easy to get a 2+ cover save for most of our units on the first turn.

As it stands I'll rarely, if ever, bother with it.

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