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 The Value of the Codex

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Anggul
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PostSubject: Re: The Value of the Codex   Mon 29 Sep 2014 - 11:58

I'm pretty sure the current rules for Mandrakes rule out getting much out of them. They aren't going to appear out of the shadows of the foe and butcher them in an icy embrace, they're going to try to get close, get shot and die. That's just one example.

If your opponent is cool with house-ruling them then that's fine, but a lot of pick-up games don't have time for that. I love writing better, more fluffy rules for units, but when we're paying GW this much money for their codices they should be doing a better job.

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Last edited by Anggul on Mon 29 Sep 2014 - 12:00; edited 1 time in total
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Crazy_Irish
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PostSubject: Re: The Value of the Codex   Mon 29 Sep 2014 - 11:59

Hijallo wrote:


And we'll most likely stand that way - allied detachment for CWE will be the best use for DE rules, and proxying some warlike craftworld will be the best use for DE models. Especially with that precision deepstrikes.

And statements like that will encourage me to not take CWE allies, thanks a lot ;-)

And I really do not think that we have been hit by the nerf stick, as the rumours for any codex always pick on the bad and the ugly changes. Sure things will change, I am pretty interested on how the archon options are, as he was always my main cc char.
Still the new good things and combinations will only be revealed after the dark city takes some time to find them and then people will pick only the point effective units and say there is only one list to play. But as far as I can see, only the tournament units for put into place (wyches, beasts,?) And the rest got slightly better by dropping in points, new PfP, new detachment more options, rule changes.

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notts
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PostSubject: Re: The Value of the Codex   Mon 29 Sep 2014 - 12:06

I’ve seen the TGL doesn’t count as grenade launcher. So Incubi now NEED grenades on profile.

2 good changes I’ve seen- razorwing to FA, and 1-3 talos/cronos per heavy support. Both much needed and obvious changes.
I haven’t seen anything else I would consider a buff? I don’t even think PfP is that good.
The formation/whatever giving everyone 5+ or 6+ first turn and letting archon buff PfP looks absolutely mandatory.

Waiting for book now before my nerd rage embarrasses me even more! Once I’ve seen book, I’ll be back on to either apologise for being wrong, or revel in my delicious salty nerd tears.
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Massaen
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PostSubject: Re: The Value of the Codex   Mon 29 Sep 2014 - 12:12

Anggul wrote:
I'm pretty sure the current rules for Mandrakes rule out getting much out of them. They aren't going to appear out of the shadows of the foe and butcher them in an icy embrace, they're going to try to get close, get shot and die. That's just one example.

If your opponent is cool with house-ruling them then that's fine, but a lot of pick-up games don't have time for that. I love writing better, more fluffy rules for units, but when we're paying GW this much money for their codices they should be doing a better job.

Mandrakes have never been anything like their fluff though! How will this codex be any different! Rolling Eyes

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Painjunky
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PostSubject: Re: The Value of the Codex   Mon 29 Sep 2014 - 12:13

Massaen wrote:
Painjunky wrote:
Massaen wrote:
Painjunky wrote:
I'm not buying the dex because rules wise it looks horrible!

If this changes I will pick one up but at the moment I just can't give GW $1 for this soggy mess!

I don't get this at all - you would rather not use the potentially thousands of dollars of models you own then buy the new book because it's not exactly what you want?!? are you going to sell the army instead? I have seen 7 editions of the game and have my fair share of unusable conversions or even genuine models so I get the frustration but not updating the rules for you own army only impacts you

No Massaen my copy will be arriving soon so I can look if over and play with it.
As I said i will only pay GW when and if I feel its worth it.

So GW will be getting cash for it in some way then. While you may not be paying for it - someone is.

Again, no Massaen when GW release poor rules they miss out on thousands of sales from ppl like me who would otherwise buy their books.

Otherwise I am starting to come around. I'm starting to see little gems amongst the turds.Smile
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Anggul
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PostSubject: Re: The Value of the Codex   Mon 29 Sep 2014 - 12:43

Massaen wrote:
Anggul wrote:
I'm pretty sure the current rules for Mandrakes rule out getting much out of them. They aren't going to appear out of the shadows of the foe and butcher them in an icy embrace, they're going to try to get close, get shot and die. That's just one example.

If your opponent is cool with house-ruling them then that's fine, but a lot of pick-up games don't have time for that. I love writing better, more fluffy rules for units, but when we're paying GW this much money for their codices they should be doing a better job.

Mandrakes have never been anything like their fluff though! How will this codex be any different! Rolling Eyes

It was an example. Their continued failure to deliver what they should be delivering means it isn't worth paying them.

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Klaivex Charondyr
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PostSubject: Re: The Value of the Codex   Mon 29 Sep 2014 - 12:47

Quote :
The formation/whatever giving everyone 5+ or 6+ first turn and letting archon buff PfP looks absolutely mandatory.

The formation is outright bad.
The 5+ for troops and 6+ for everyone else only works on nightfight (so a 50% chance of doing nothing at all) . Also you have only very few troop slots (and thus next to none access to objective secured).
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Massaen
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PostSubject: Re: The Value of the Codex   Mon 29 Sep 2014 - 12:48

But your putting YOUR expectations on it - what makes your opinion more valid than the writer who decided that the new rules reflected it in a way that suited the back ground to them?

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notts
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PostSubject: Re: The Value of the Codex   Mon 29 Sep 2014 - 12:50

Klaivex Charondyr wrote:
Quote :
The formation/whatever giving everyone 5+ or 6+ first turn and letting archon buff PfP looks absolutely mandatory.

The formation is outright bad.
The 5+ for troops and 6+ for everyone else only works on nightfight (so a 50% chance of doing nothing at all) . Also you have only very few troop slots (and thus next to none access to objective secured).

I read its 5+/6+ on first turn AND any night fighting turn.
Means you’ll get 5+ first turn, 6+ 2nd turn, and 5+ third turn again.

If what you wrote is true, and you need the Archon from that formation to buff PfP, then PfP is even worse than people think it is.
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Klaivex Charondyr
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PostSubject: Re: The Value of the Codex   Mon 29 Sep 2014 - 12:53

Probably because he wrote the background in another way as they perform on the battlefield? No story ever started with: The powerful mandrakes crept into the shadows and where blasted to shreds by a Wyvern canonneer."
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John M
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PostSubject: Re: The Value of the Codex   Mon 29 Sep 2014 - 13:01

Thor665 wrote:
Put me down for the normal edition. Unless the objective markers are hand carved from bone I suspect I'll be able to convert something I like better Wink

I'd buy them if they were hand carved from bone.
Also you can bet after all the supplemants come out the'll do another deal, so we could all wait until then before splashing out Very Happy Very Happy
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notts
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PostSubject: Re: The Value of the Codex   Mon 29 Sep 2014 - 18:48

If the "no HWG for wyches" rumour is true, what the heck do you use them for?

dust gatherers next to the mandrakes?
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Hijallo
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PostSubject: Re: The Value of the Codex   Mon 29 Sep 2014 - 19:14

Exactly that.

Well, may be they've got significant point costs decrease, in which case they can be thrown to stop some deathstars which are not exactly hot in close combat for a few turns.
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Klaivex Charondyr
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PostSubject: Re: The Value of the Codex   Mon 29 Sep 2014 - 19:22

To be fair Wyches are worse in CC than Orcs. Yes they have a higher I and yes they have a 4++
But "mob rule" T4, 4A and furious charge + the ability to charge after running once in a game make them at the very least equal (if not superior). Yet Wyches are on more points. and I dont think they will drop to the price of an orc.
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Hijallo
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PostSubject: Re: The Value of the Codex   Mon 29 Sep 2014 - 19:34

4++ and FnP option is quite a big deal actually, especially when it comes to tanking deathstars.
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Klaivex Charondyr
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PostSubject: Re: The Value of the Codex   Mon 29 Sep 2014 - 20:15

Deathstars usually have S6+ so no Fnp anyways.
Yes the 4++ is a big deal. so is high numbers and "nearly" fearless (mob rule).
The big difference here is: kill 4 orks and they dont care. Kill 2 Wyches and they run. You can only "tank" if you dont run away.
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