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 The Value of the Codex

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Blank05
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PostSubject: The Value of the Codex   Thu Sep 25 2014, 08:30

Greetings Dark Brethren! With the upcoming preorder for our new Codex, I am Wracked(get it?) with uncertainty as to which to buy. For those that don't know, there are three options: Standard, Dracon and Archon. Standard is simply theplain Codex in all it's glory. However, the Dracon and Archon varieties offer unique objective markers, a painting guide, folios, unique cover arts and data cards, but for a sybstantial price increase.

The Archon set, however, offers the new Covens Supplement as well as all of the previously mentioned items. So, I ask you all, what are you buying?

I'm leaning towards the Dracon set and I'll just buy the Supplement when it comes out on it's own. Though buying the standard 'dex and adding the painting guide and data cards is much cheaper. I'm at a loss. What do you all think?
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aurynn
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PostSubject: Re: The Value of the Codex   Thu Sep 25 2014, 08:42

It will all depend on when I see what really is included and how it looks like. :-)
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Calyptra
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PostSubject: Re: The Value of the Codex   Thu Sep 25 2014, 08:48

Unless I'm missing something, or there's something important we don't know yet, you're spending $89 for the objective markers and the slipcase with the Dracon Edition. Assuming the Covens supplement is $50, you're spending $109 for the objective markers and slipcase with the Archon edition. I'm sure the objective markers are cool, but I can't justify spending that much money on them.
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Black Death
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PostSubject: Re: The Value of the Codex   Thu Sep 25 2014, 08:50

I've preordered the book and cards, that is all I need, at the moment. Gonna wait and see if any other releases make it out that I just gotta have for my already large DE army.

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Mr Believer
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PostSubject: Re: The Value of the Codex   Thu Sep 25 2014, 08:51

Standard codex and data cards. I might buy the covens supplement at a later date depending on how useful others find it to be. I just can't justify spending that much on them!

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: The Value of the Codex   Thu Sep 25 2014, 08:56

No way in hell would I ever bother with the 'limited edition' versions. They simply have no value for me. I'll buy the codex and cards and then see if any of the new models appeal to me.

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lelith
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PostSubject: Re: The Value of the Codex   Thu Sep 25 2014, 09:18

Like others, the limited editions seem not so attractive for me. I'm gonna buy the codex + supplement from iBooks, and datacard + some new models from a national shop - as there's only one retailer in my country Wink

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Last edited by lelith on Thu Sep 25 2014, 09:31; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Changed the term after reading the comment of Klaivex)
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Klaivex Charondyr
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PostSubject: Re: The Value of the Codex   Thu Sep 25 2014, 09:25

No limited for me either.
Codex + Cards + supplement and a few minis if they are either better than the "old" ones or have extremely good rules.
Also not from a GW shop. Never understood why people do that when individual retailers offer lower prices (up to -30% in my case) and in most cases more personal service.
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Anggul
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PostSubject: Re: The Value of the Codex   Thu Sep 25 2014, 10:29

Standard for me. Everything but the objective markers will only sit on a shelf anyway, and I suspect that will be the case for many who do purchase the bigger ones.

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Grub
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PostSubject: Re: The Value of the Codex   Thu Sep 25 2014, 10:31

I'm not going to fuel Games Workshops addiction to selling stuff which should be included anyway. They are rapidly becoming the EA of table top gaming and their "DLC" is a scam. I wish people would boycott these things to give them the message.

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Anggul
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PostSubject: Re: The Value of the Codex   Thu Sep 25 2014, 10:34

Indeed. The Haemonculi aren't a specialist thing you would want to be available separately like a specific chapter or craftworld, they're an integral part of the Dark Eldar throughout and all of their stuff should be in the main codex, including warlord traits and relics.

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aurynn
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PostSubject: Re: The Value of the Codex   Thu Sep 25 2014, 11:02

I disagree. Making dexes and sups costs lots of manhours to do. The quality is another issue, but strictly speaking about the expenses needed to play Warhammer with the new release system - If I take into account that we have to pay, say 200 bucks per two years to get dex, 2 sups and some other stuff for 50 bucks (counters, objectives, cards, etc.), it means 8.33 bucks per month, which is  waaay cheaper than any of my other hobbies, including just going to beer with friends. Even with 2 armies and counting in costs of replenishing paints, brushes, modelling stuff and even the new models and BRBs with new editions, it should never be more than 50 bucks per month... Is that really too much? I live in a country with sorry hourly wages compared to the rest of the Europe and it is not that much.

What bothers everyone is the volume of one-time investment everytime they want to start a hobby or when the new edition/dex comes out, I get it, but the hobby itself is not expensive. Especially if you can convert stuff. People dont complain buying a 1000-dollar TV, but do complain buying 1000-dollars' worth of models that can give them arguably much more rewarding and quality fun.

So what I really want to say... it is a matter of perspective. Warhammer isnt a cheap hobby, no... but ppl are spending much more on much more useless stuff without complains. :-)
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Anggul
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PostSubject: Re: The Value of the Codex   Thu Sep 25 2014, 11:20

Did I miss the part where any of us complained about the price of the hobby in this thread? I don't think anyone actually said anything relevant to what you just said.

Most of us just said we don't see much value in the things you get with the bigger versions and would rather just buy the standard version instead of spending out for a few extras which are likely to just sit on the shelf most of the time.

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Grub
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PostSubject: Re: The Value of the Codex   Thu Sep 25 2014, 11:22

Its not the cost which is the main issue. Its the business model.

Its the die hard wargaming fans like us who have supported GW over the years, without those players, the business would falter. The hobby should come first, I got into GW because I loved the models then the game came next. I don't mind spending money on models or spending money on multiple models to create an army. But to be treated as a cash cow, it puts me off.

The cost of plastic injection is tiny, and the cost of the models is expensive. Should there be a price cut, probably but I will still spend money on nice looking models that have been well designed and well made (personally think the new haemocules is daft looking). But to then say in order to play the game you need this, and if you want the full experience you then need to buy this this and this for only "ridiculous price" is taking the mick. Yes a lot of work goes into them but its a money grabbing ungrateful business model and it would be refreshing to see GW go back to its roots.

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aurynn
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PostSubject: Re: The Value of the Codex   Thu Sep 25 2014, 11:47

@Anggul
My post was in regards of your complaint of what should be included in the dex - thus the price of the sup + dex. But it was bit boiling inside of me for some time so my post might have been inadvertently bit too broad in subject and bit more offensive than was my intention. So it did seem bit off topic. :-)

@Grub
I agree with you. The prices ARE steep. But I will much rather pay the price for plastic minis than for resin minis. And as of the release schedule change, I am quite happy with the whole WFB and W40K heading right now. I get pissed off if one part of the army (wracks) is double the cost than the other (warriors, wyches), which is so apparent scam that it is almost unsupportable.

But... I stand by what I said that Warhammer is not as expensive as ppl make it, even with GW prices. :-)
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Klaivex Charondyr
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PostSubject: Re: The Value of the Codex   Thu Sep 25 2014, 11:57

I guess you overestimate the "man hours" needed to make a supplement.
As far as it goes, most content of existing supplements did already exist through books, older codices or WD articles. For most part it is a copy and paste job. The 3 actual rule pages in supplements are not the main cost.
Its the formatting, binding, printing,... so in short, most of the manhours and value is used to clip it away from the main codex.
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Anggul
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PostSubject: Re: The Value of the Codex   Thu Sep 25 2014, 11:57

Well in my opinion the Haemonculus warlord traits and relics should be included in the main codex.

I'm fine with supplements for the more specific things like certain chapters, craftworlds, enclaves etc., but the Haemonculi aren't a specific thing that only certain players play, they're a broad, integral part of the Dark Eldar used to some degree by most. All of that stuff should be in the main codex. It's almost like charging for a full codex for every chapter tactic in the Space Marines codex.

I would also say that supplements shouldn't cost nearly as much as a full codex. They have far less content. As for fluff, if you're going to charge money for a story, price it like a novel not a rulebook. I think Militarum Tempestus was the biggest joke of them all. Claiming it to be a codex when it was just an elite choice from one codex with a slightly modified command squad and a couple of extra rules. Bit of a joke really.

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: The Value of the Codex   Thu Sep 25 2014, 12:03

Anggul wrote:
Well in my opinion the Haemonculus warlord traits and relics should be included in the main codex.

I'm sure the Covens will still be in the main codex and that the supplement would just introduce extra formations etc. Ghazghkull is in the Ork Codex but also got a supplement of his own.


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Mr Believer
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PostSubject: Re: The Value of the Codex   Thu Sep 25 2014, 12:09

Count Adhemar wrote:

I'm sure the Covens will still be in the main codex and that the supplement would just introduce extra formations etc. Ghazghkull is in the Ork Codex but also got a supplement of his own.

Exactly this. I have the ork codex, and there is more stuff in there than in the previous one in terms of fluff, wargear, weapons and rules, it's hardback instead of softback, has a gatefold section... It compares well to the old style codex in both a rules comparison and a quality comparison, so should cost more. Whether the old one was fairly priced is obviously questionable, but rule books and the like cost more money than an equivalent sized fiction book because you can do more with them.




Not literally, obviously. I was just lightening the mood. lol!
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Grub
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PostSubject: Re: The Value of the Codex   Thu Sep 25 2014, 12:34

God imagine if the arcane wargear stayed as useless as ever and you bought a coven supplement just for that!

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: The Value of the Codex   Thu Sep 25 2014, 12:55

Grub wrote:
God imagine if the arcane wargear stayed as useless as ever and you bought a coven supplement just for that!


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Grub
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PostSubject: Re: The Value of the Codex   Thu Sep 25 2014, 13:33

Every time I hear someone say "Arcane Wargear"


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clively
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PostSubject: Re: The Value of the Codex   Thu Sep 25 2014, 14:58

As much as I want the covens supplement, I think I'll pass until it's released on it's own. The coin markers and slipcase just don't seem to be worth the extra money to me.

So, my order list so far is:
Voidraven
Codex
Data Cards
Raiders of Commoragh
Total: $170US retail - actual will be around $128 due to discounts at my flgs.

If Vect w/Dias doesn't have the same treatment as Logar then I'll add it - I already have a conversion model for Vect which I am rather partial to. When the covens supplement is released on it's own (probably a month or two) then I'll pick that up as well.

The main reason I'm going to get the Raiders book is for the additional history.

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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: The Value of the Codex   Thu Sep 25 2014, 16:50

Put me down for the normal edition. Unless the objective markers are hand carved from bone I suspect I'll be able to convert something I like better Wink

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Aeterna
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PostSubject: Re: The Value of the Codex   Thu Sep 25 2014, 19:38

Looking, I'd probably just get the normal the price increase for about $70 isn't really worth it for things i don't want. Rather spend it on a Bomber or a Skysplinter group.

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