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 Our Codex is confirmed! - *** summary as of Sept. 29 in OP ***

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aurynn
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PostSubject: Re: Our Codex is confirmed! - *** summary as of Sept. 29 in OP ***   Sun Sep 28 2014, 21:14

I decided to follow the example of those wiser than me and leave this thread too. Wont cause any more trouble. :-)
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Mushkilla
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PostSubject: Re: Our Codex is confirmed! - *** summary as of Sept. 29 in OP ***   Sun Sep 28 2014, 21:19

@Hijallo wrote:
I bet you'll miss bladevanes.

I don't think so, I assaulted almost as much as I used bladevanes with my reavers, and their assault capacity got buffed. In a lot of ways bladevanes were a means to an end, a way to quickly get FNP when your reavers came on from reserve turn 2. Now we have tempo based power from pain that buffs our assault capacity and survivability on a unit that has the mobility to be where you want it when you want it. What's not to like?

Dark Eldar at least in my experience have always been about timing, the new power from pain merely adds to that.

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Hijallo
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PostSubject: Re: Our Codex is confirmed! - *** summary as of Sept. 29 in OP ***   Sun Sep 28 2014, 21:30

On the brighter side of things, all those rumors come from the guy who claims to have seen a few pages of a codex, so it's highly possible that things are not THAT bad.
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son of osiris
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PostSubject: Re: Our Codex is confirmed! - *** summary as of Sept. 29 in OP ***   Sun Sep 28 2014, 22:02

Haywireless Wyches makes me sad.. but if mandrakes do indeed have stealth+shrouded, I'm pretty darn excited to actually field that unit for once

The book will be different. But honestly, I'm looking forward to some variety. Its hard for me to play the current DE week after week at my LGS because its just all poison and dark matter weapons. Not like that will be at all different, but having units of talos, more coven weapons, new artifacts, the new WWP and mandrakes being usable, might definitely provide a more interesting pick up game for my opponents.
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Bibitybopitybacon
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PostSubject: Re: Our Codex is confirmed! - *** summary as of Sept. 29 in OP ***   Sun Sep 28 2014, 22:03

I hope so.. I forked over the dough for the dracon edition. If wyches became even worse I'm returning the damn thing and melting my minis in a fire kindled purely by a spark from my own indignation.
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The Red King
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PostSubject: Re: Our Codex is confirmed! - *** summary as of Sept. 29 in OP ***   Sun Sep 28 2014, 22:08

At first I serioused.

But then I lol'ed

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Hijallo
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PostSubject: Re: Our Codex is confirmed! - *** summary as of Sept. 29 in OP ***   Sun Sep 28 2014, 22:13

Talosi aren't going to be usable. They need delivery system. Otherwise, taking them in squadrons is just wasting more points - 6+d6 is certainly won't bring them anywhere. Ya, if they could use the portal thing, Cronos+2 Talosi could actually be quite a nice combo. And they'll murder most units they charge into.
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Red Corsair
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PostSubject: Re: Our Codex is confirmed! - *** summary as of Sept. 29 in OP ***   Sun Sep 28 2014, 23:14

I disagree, making them 3 MC units is big. Rotate the leader for wound allocating also spreading them wide makes their footprint much better for setting up assaults. Its also another way to get 3 twin linked haywire guns in a list. If scourge can field 4 per 5 then our AT will be answered that fast.

edit - Lets also not forget the rumored FnP stock which I happen to believe since they were the only coven unit besides scourge to be left out in the starting pain token department.

Honestly the coven side to DE has me the most excited.

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HokutoAndy
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PostSubject: Re: Our Codex is confirmed! - *** summary as of Sept. 29 in OP ***   Sun Sep 28 2014, 23:26

@Mushkilla wrote:

I don't think so, I assaulted almost as much as I used bladevanes with my reavers, and their assault capacity got buffed. In a lot of ways bladevanes were a means to an end, a way to quickly get FNP when your reavers came on from reserve turn 2. Now we have tempo based power from pain that buffs our assault capacity and survivability on a unit that has the mobility to be where you want it when you want it. What's not to like?

I'm waiting for Mushkilla's batrep where gravtalon (concussive in the rumor) reavers with power maul wielding champion knock some monstrous creature into a coma.

If caltrop strength stays the same, Reavers can now fly behind enemy armor and pop them with fusion lances then charge in for s6 HoW (s4 rending is also alright for av10), hypothetically it seems Reavers will shift heavier into the anti-tank spectrum of things... I'm still anxious to hear about scourges though.


As for triple talos, target saturation has always been key. Imagine... 9 pain engines in HS, 3 squads of grotesques in Elite, and mobs of tough fnp wracks in troops.
WAAAAAAAAAAAGH COVEN!! (instead of "dakka dakka dakka" though you have "splashy splashy splashy" with all those funky acid guns)
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Expletive Deleted
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PostSubject: Re: Our Codex is confirmed! - *** summary as of Sept. 29 in OP ***   Sun Sep 28 2014, 23:55

@Mushkilla wrote:
I CAN NOW RUN 60 REAVERS! ALL YOUR ARGUMENTS ARE INVALID.

I just had an image in my mind of trying to keep 60 scourges from falling over. I think I'd flip the table.

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Drk_Oblitr8r
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PostSubject: Re: Our Codex is confirmed! - *** summary as of Sept. 29 in OP ***   Mon Sep 29 2014, 00:22

Imagine charging those 60 reavers, with max caltrops, into one squad. 18ish d6 s6 rending how.

That's potentially 108 s6 i10 autohits.
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novastar
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PostSubject: Re: Our Codex is confirmed! - *** summary as of Sept. 29 in OP ***   Mon Sep 29 2014, 00:33

To bad hammer of wrath requires getting into base contact, that many reavers would be impractical assaulting one unit
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Drk_Oblitr8r
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PostSubject: Re: Our Codex is confirmed! - *** summary as of Sept. 29 in OP ***   Mon Sep 29 2014, 00:44

I'm sure we can get 18 bikes in base contact if we wanted to. I do agree there would have to be a pretty good reason to do so.
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krayd
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PostSubject: Re: Our Codex is confirmed! - *** summary as of Sept. 29 in OP ***   Mon Sep 29 2014, 00:48

Has anything concrete leaked concerning the next White Dwarf? Perhaps that can corroborate or contradict some of these apparent codex leaks.

As for what has been presented so far:

I'm really disheartened by Archons losing all access to ap2 close combat weaponry. I guess GW wants the Succubus to be the challenge-monster. Granted, even at ap3, all it takes is for one hit to get through to cause instant death, so there's that, I guess.

It looks like Reavers might have to replace wyches as a fast tank-hunting squad. Caltrops/rending hits on vehicle rear armor look like they might okay at popping vehicles, if you have enough Reavers to provide enough hits.

I foresee Trueborn with Shardcarbines on raiders with splinter racks as the anti-infantry machines of the future.
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Hijallo
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PostSubject: Re: Our Codex is confirmed! - *** summary as of Sept. 29 in OP ***   Mon Sep 29 2014, 00:49

The problem with Pain Engines is that they're slow. I'll offer you a thought experiment:

Imagine a Marine army (any marines) with 3 squads of 10 Assault terminators without any transports. Does it look scary? Will it get the player anywhere?

In fact, assault terminators are better than Talosi. They can deep strike and save slow walking over the battlefield.

TL;DR: Without delivery system Talos is a point sink and everyone who will field more than zero is playing with a handicap.
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Drk_Oblitr8r
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PostSubject: Re: Our Codex is confirmed! - *** summary as of Sept. 29 in OP ***   Mon Sep 29 2014, 00:58

A delivery system like the rumoured WWP?
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Martinman
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PostSubject: Re: Our Codex is confirmed! - *** summary as of Sept. 29 in OP ***   Mon Sep 29 2014, 01:18

@krayd wrote:

I foresee Trueborn with Shardcarbines on raiders with splinter racks as the anti-infantry machines of the future.

Back when I was first learning DE, I didn't fully know the rules, and thought that Splinter Racks gave rerolls to Shardcarbines. A Raider with Sliscus, 7 Shardborne, and 2 Cannonborne murdered anything. As much as I'll miss Sliscus, the reason I started playing DE, I'm going to love legitimately using this build.
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Calyptra
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PostSubject: Re: Our Codex is confirmed! - *** summary as of Sept. 29 in OP ***   Mon Sep 29 2014, 01:34

I was rereading barjed's posts on Warseer (which is where a lot of these rumors are coming from) and noticed that the Crucible of Malediction is supposed to inflict a S 6 hit on all psykers within 3d6" with no saves of any kind allowed, once per game.

Without knowing how many points it is, it seems good.

I'm clinging to this. A good rumor about the codex.

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PainReaver
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PostSubject: Re: Our Codex is confirmed! - *** summary as of Sept. 29 in OP ***   Mon Sep 29 2014, 01:57

Oh my lord (some of you) guys,

Everyone's complaining Wyches being nerfed. Sure they lose HWG, but I saw that one coming because a) it was an uninintended exploit, b) the idea is plain weird and unfluffy. But, there's more, now with Power From Pain being static, we now get guaranteed feel no pain 5 on turn 3, and on turn 4 furious charge, and if they do survive and turn 6, they now have rage (by this point feel free to throw your warriors in already active combat for that just extra push), combine with the right drug result (in this case, strength one, totaling s5 potential), you now have potent mass s5 attacks, some of whom with shred (Hydra Gaunts), and the Hekatrix with some sort of Power Weapon/Agonizer would make for a very destructive charge. And we can still pull off charging from cover shenanigans, though it's no longer a required. Incubi and Reavers had the same benefit.

As for Reavers, old Reavers had an interesting mechanic that could be useful, but the problem with that was you had 3 choices, one of which precluded the other two- spread over 5 or 6 turns. So if you're bladevaning, you are not shooting. If you are shooting, you are usually in assault range, or will be using the jetbike move. If you are assaulting, hope you brought some heat lances because hammer of wrath/furious charge + right drug result means Wave Serpents can get flipped over, if our heat lances/blasters fail us. Instead of having to make one of three decisions, we can do it one pass. And we have hit and run to do another charge. And we shouldn't be charging full Tac squads with reavers.

Incubi have just gotten awesome, with Furious Charge and Feel No Pain guaranteed in late game. Rage just makes them more deadly. They can possibly even survive striking initiative 1, more so if Archon is riding with them. s5 against the rear of vehicles (Klaivex w/ demi-klaive for s6) means we can do glancing hits on a majority of vehicles (Wave Serpents).

Also we now have Deep Striking vehicles- free. Previously we paid 5 pts for vehicle which added up to quite a sum or, we got Duke, which pulls our lists apart. Half our problems with Serpents came not from the fact that lances are disappointing, but the fact that we were facing the front of it. Now we can drop one or two from the rear, along with raiders from company and give Serpents a taste of their own medicine. Don't forget guys, Serpents are expensive, and he's likely not to have many of them (and if he does, he's not taking other toys)

Amidst the opprobrium, Archon Court just got steroids. Sslyth bodyguards w/ Lhamaean support to make your archon/succy majority t5. Small squads of medusae for s4 ap 3 template bombs, so we can dish the heldrake treatment. Archon's now have two good inv. save choices- Shadowfields now lose their save at the end of the phase, and no longer rolling one at a time shenanigans. Webway portals can deploy either allied Wraithguard or Blasterborn in a Raider, right into the midst of the enemy, up the rear armor, (if they still exist that is).

As for Huskblade nerf, sure that sucks. No disagreement on that. But why is your Archon challenging Chapter Master Smashbane or Kaldor Draigo? Given that most 2+ save characters, also have invulnerable saves to go along with, or Eternal Warrior, or Feel No Pain, or high Toughness, it's a big gamble. Plus old, Soul Trap had the potential not to go off if you rolled 11/12 for leadership test. Now a Succubus with the new Archite Glaive has ap2, +1 strength, just like the Incubi (roll with them i.e). Succubus can kill (and be killed by) Kharn every now and then.

And if you like the new Voidraven, run it with Dark Scythes & Missiles to assassinate key units- whether in Power Armour or not. Make sure you bring another Voidraven or Razorwing to cover for air. Sure the Voidraven will probs disappear the next turn, but its done its job.
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clively
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PostSubject: Re: Our Codex is confirmed! - *** summary as of Sept. 29 in OP ***   Mon Sep 29 2014, 02:06

I went ahead and downloaded the ipad codex preview.  

The entry for 995999.m41 throws an interesting spin on things.   The white dwarf had the poisoned tongue led by archon winterchill; however this entry *in the codex preview* is pretty clear that malys is still in charge of the poisoned tongue ... And she is at war with vect.

The entry just above that one has Vect leading a raid, alongside Lelith.

Every time units have been removed from prior codexes, the history was updated to retcon them.  I really don't see GW writing how malys and vect are fighting and NOT having them as playable models.  I'm even willing to bet that the "succubus" model we've seen is actually malys.  

The more I look into this stuff the more I realize these rumors are complete trash.  Vect isn't gone, our codex hasn't been trashed and in less than a week we will find that all is well in the world.

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Sinisterjon
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PostSubject: Re: Our Codex is confirmed! - *** summary as of Sept. 29 in OP ***   Mon Sep 29 2014, 02:13

I was thinking about how pfp working turn in turns could be beneficial. Then I imagined raiders, ravagers and venoms running around jinking on a 2+ (night fighting), then reserves arrive; bomber, fighters, WWP archon in raider full of true born. Turn three with some clever use of relics (+1 to FNP, if true) and bang the Dark Eldar make their move. It seems like a tactical game of cat and mouse and when the iron is hot strike at the enemies nerves.

HS slots with two ravagers and a bomber to open up transports, two fighters and a couple of reaver units to soak up the fire and take out tanks then two or three raiders of troops to finish off the remaining infantry. That sounds like fun!
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Izaeus
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PostSubject: Re: Our Codex is confirmed! - *** summary as of Sept. 29 in OP ***   Mon Sep 29 2014, 02:24

I hope they give archons some kind of splinter weapon, a raider full of true born and an archon all benefiting from splinter wracks... sounds pretty cool to me.
Also one of the rumors is that archon and haemy can bring the pfp a turn earlier and that it stacks, so if that's true we can potentially get our fnp first turn (on the entire army) if so That is pretty sweet.
One last thing ics can join talos units right? If so then just wwp wherever you want em, then join your archon with another unit of you so choose.
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Massaen
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PostSubject: Re: Our Codex is confirmed! - *** summary as of Sept. 29 in OP ***   Mon Sep 29 2014, 02:27

No joining mc or units of mc any more

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Izaeus
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PostSubject: Re: Our Codex is confirmed! - *** summary as of Sept. 29 in OP ***   Mon Sep 29 2014, 02:37

Ok thanks I was unsure of that, well I guess talos will be foot slogging then
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Barking Agatha
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PostSubject: Re: Our Codex is confirmed! - *** summary as of Sept. 29 in OP ***   Mon Sep 29 2014, 04:32

@Drk_Oblitr8r wrote:
A delivery system like the rumoured WWP?

The rumoured WWP is not available to them (as pointed out above).

@PainReaver wrote:
Everyone's complaining Wyches being nerfed. Sure they lose HWG, but I saw that one coming because a) it was an uninintended exploit...

How so? Were they originally given the option for haywire grenades with no idea that they would be used against vehicles?

@Sinisterjon wrote:
Then I imagined raiders, ravagers and venoms running around jinking on a 2+ (night fighting)

That is not how it works. The rumour is that Night Shields give Stealth, and Night Fighting also gives Stealth. The two are redundant, they don't stack!

@Mushkilla wrote:
What's not to like?

Wyches were supposed to kick arse this time, and not only do they *not*, apparently, kick arse, even though the post-it note specifically said that they were supposed to; no, they've even taken away their haywire grenades which I've been using on them since 5th edition, even though no one believes me and everyone thinks that haywire grenades just sort of happened when Hull Points became a thing, as if you couldn't kill a space meringue dreddlock by just rolling a lot of glancing blows on the table, but it did happen, it did, and anyway, if Covens are going to be so good now, and Kabals still kick arse, then Wych cults were supposed to kick arse too, and they were supposed to have their own supplement just for them, and I want my supplement nooooow! And that's what's not to like!

Other than that, I'm cool. New Power From Pain, Talos and Chronos in groups of three, voidravens, ozzy-factors, it all sounds groovy.
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