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 cant get to grips with space marines HELP ME!

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Grub
Wych
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PostSubject: cant get to grips with space marines HELP ME!   Mon Sep 08 2014, 14:25

I know it sounds stupid but am I missing something?

I'm an experienced 40k player, I've won tournaments with my dark eldar, I've dabbled in eldar and tau in the past and never had too many issues. But the past year and a bit I've been trying my salamanders out. There is just no pizaz, no wow factor with them though. I watch other marine players demolish yet when I try nothing happens, things don't die when they are shot and power armor makes no difference! Is this normal? Am I missing something? I'm sure there are some competent marine players out there who can help me, here is what I own:

Vulkan
10x assault terminators
3x Dreadnaughts
10x Sternguard Vets
12x Assault Marines
1x Landspeeder
35x Tactical Marines
5x Scouts
5x devastators
Predator tank
2x Whirlwinds which can turn into rhinos
2x Razorbacks
Rhino
Vindicator
Drop Pod

Help me overcome mediocrity. The guys who I frequently play with have marine armies and they can't see why mine are so lack luster, perhaps you can help!
Cheers
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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: cant get to grips with space marines HELP ME!   Mon Sep 08 2014, 15:09

I can see what you own.
What do you run?

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PostSubject: Re: cant get to grips with space marines HELP ME!   Mon Sep 08 2014, 15:20

That very much depends, I've tried different set ups, different themes but always get the same outcomes. Standard units include the predator, 10x Sternguard with combi meltas and flamers combat squadded in a drop pod for a bit of shock and awe. That's the only unit that seems to be worth its salt. Tactical marines with multi meltas and flamers combat squadded often perhaps in razorbacks. Perhaps a few dreadnaughts or a vindicator for support. Sometimes I borrow a landraider and get vulkan with 9 assault termies in big games but they never last more than 2 turns it seems and rarely get into combat. Sometimes the assault marines go up as well but they never seem to succeed in combat, even lost 7 the other day to a small blob of guardsman.

I'm thinking I need to start from scratch really!

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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: cant get to grips with space marines HELP ME!   Mon Sep 08 2014, 16:20

Well, assault marines are one of the wussiest things in their dex. This comes from someone whose Raven Guard runs 20-30 of them on a regular basis.

The strength of the Salamanders is in their flamers, and Marines as a whole tend to be a mid to short range army anyway. I suspect they would best be run similar to how I run my Imperial Fists (who, thanks to bolter drill, also tend to favor short range)

Looking at your list one thing that sticks out to me, and seems to hold true to your description, is that you have a lot of '1 of somethings' in your builds. There is the old mantra that if 1 is good, 2 is better, and 3 or more is best - and it holds as true for Marines as it does for DEldar.

1 Predator isn't as good as 1 Predator + A rifleman + 2+ Razorbacks. You need to give the opponent multiple tools that will threaten them. Same with the drop pods, 1 is okay, but 3+ is great (heck, we have people on this board asking for advice on how to deal with Drop Pod Assault armies - so you know it is dangerous to some).

I would say the best Salamander army I have ever seen focused mostly on Drop Pods and melta and flamers.

Looking at your list it seems to me that a lot of your issue is probably coming to grips with the enemy. Your army is, optimally, a short to mid range one, and you somewhat lack on ways to deliver the pain quickly to your opponent. I would suggest trying a game or two with some 'counts as' drop pods.

Give yourself some Tac squads with melta, flamers, multi-melta, and combi-flamer/melta and join in witht he Sternguard. Maybe even an Ironclad w. dual H. Flamers. With two Pods hitting Turn 1, and then more + maybe some DSing Assault Termies (give some pods locator beacons for extra win) you could swamp your opponent's deployment zone fast and early and fill it with a lot of flamer love. That would then help free up the board for your support elements to claim objectives while providing moderate long range fire support. That's the basic gist of most successful Salamander lists I've seen.

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PostSubject: Re: cant get to grips with space marines HELP ME!   Mon Sep 08 2014, 17:29

Drop pod is where I think I will go with them. I do try to "double up" stuff as I know it works, I would love a few more drop pods though. After giving it some thought I think your right about not being able to deliver the pain quickly. That's exactly what my problem is, takes me to long to get into there face even with rhinos/razors (certainly compared to the gutsy raider). Perhaps drop pods will solve this. I hope so. Thanks for the info and clarifying what I should have realised myself! I WILL GIVE IT A GO! Wonder what makes a decent drop pod proxy

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PostSubject: Re: cant get to grips with space marines HELP ME!   Wed Sep 10 2014, 06:49

Can of beans, I reckon. I'd let that slide.

Thor's advice is all fantastic by the way, I used to have the same kind of problem with my own marines and had to look at why they weren't really working. I also converted my entire chapter to Dark Angels eventually, but that's rather extreme and I think Salamanders are far cooler anyway! Props on the chapter choice at least!

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PostSubject: Re: cant get to grips with space marines HELP ME!   Sun Sep 14 2014, 16:29

Haha thanks, well I smashed my mates grey knight list the other day, even though he had some kind of bubble protection around his units preventing deep strike. 4 Drop pods with sternguard and tac marines brought the pain, Vulkan and 5 TH Termies in a Land Raider redeemer supported by a vindicator significantly helped as well. Not sure how it would work against other armies but it was at least fun!

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PostSubject: Re: cant get to grips with space marines HELP ME!   Sun Sep 14 2014, 18:09

A friend of mine is building a Salamanders army. Only 1 drop pod so his army is fully on the table from T1. Strike Force Ultra formation, Vulkan with his personal meltagun dudes guard goes into the pod.
Check the SFU formation. Its really dickish. Or throw a Fire Raptor from FW in for lulz. :-D
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PostSubject: Re: cant get to grips with space marines HELP ME!   Sun Sep 14 2014, 19:51

I just got hold of some legion pyroclasts which are going to be interesting to try out! Got to love those salamander templates!

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PostSubject: Re: cant get to grips with space marines HELP ME!   Mon Sep 15 2014, 14:41

@Grub wrote:
I just got hold of some legion pyroclasts which are going to be interesting to try out! Got to love those salamander templates!

The pyroclasts look awesome! although i always take thunderfire cannons if i were to run SM ( im a chaos space marine/ Chaos Daemon player) although i wouldnt be a loyalist. Ima Heretic Very Happy Death to the False Emprah. try some Land raider Redeemers. Those flamestorm cannons really add punch to your pyroclasts in the land raiders.
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PostSubject: Re: cant get to grips with space marines HELP ME!   Mon Sep 15 2014, 15:11

Flamestorm cannons are just plain fun. I remember when I played Eldar watching a landraider pop around the corner of a building and take out 5 of my wraithguard. I was most dissapointed but I know why the guy enjoyed it so much!

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