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 Bet on Mandrakes

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Do you think new Mandrakes will be just as terrible as all previous versions?
1) Yes, i think they secretely want to punish themself and chose to always fail
48%
 48% [ 31 ]
2) No, i believe they will finally crawl out of the shadow and reign the day (or night).
33%
 33% [ 21 ]
3) I think they go even deeper into shadow realm and become even worse.
19%
 19% [ 12 ]
Total Votes : 64
 

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Azdrubael
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PostSubject: Bet on Mandrakes   Wed Aug 27 2014, 16:23

Hey all!

Poll idea has taken place in my head about our "beloved" Mandrakes. Since we have lots of new rumours about upcoming codex i thought we could muse a bit about our average frustrated mandrakes.

If a winning poll result will match their state when codex will be released i will buy 10 of them, paint them and post images here.


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thesaltedwound
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PostSubject: Re: Bet on Mandrakes   Wed Aug 27 2014, 16:59

The models sell, I guess. If they're already making money, why waste effort on their rules? I hope they do get better though.

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Dethdispenser
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PostSubject: Re: Bet on Mandrakes   Wed Aug 27 2014, 17:09

I don't trust GW to make them playable. To make them competitive they would have to be able to start with a pain token, and be able to assault first turn. Also a 4++ would not hurt.
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Panic_Puppet
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PostSubject: Re: Bet on Mandrakes   Wed Aug 27 2014, 17:20

Even beginning the game with a pain token would be a huge buff. That or making the Baleblast work without a pain token. Even the buff to a 4+ invulnerable.

Those are in order of preference. As best I can tell (despite not having played a game with them) the tricky bit with mandrakes is getting that first pain token....

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Dethdispenser
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PostSubject: Re: Bet on Mandrakes   Wed Aug 27 2014, 17:25

Allowing the Mandrakes to have baleblast without a pain token, would be huge.
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thesaltedwound
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PostSubject: Re: Bet on Mandrakes   Wed Aug 27 2014, 19:19

The thing is that starting with a pain token is the gimmick of Coven units. So baleblast not needing a pain token is the main thing, probably for a points increase.

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clively
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PostSubject: Re: Bet on Mandrakes   Wed Aug 27 2014, 22:19

I think Jes must have pulled some tricks on Phil that didn't go over too well and the Mandrakes were Phil's way of getting Jes back.

Either that or GW decided to use them as a test to see if most people buy models because they look cool or because the rules are good.

Regardless, I hope someone fixed them so that I have a reason to paint the ones I bought. It took me about a year just to decide to assemble them. I think I was just really bored that day.

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TheNeonArlecchino
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PostSubject: Re: Bet on Mandrakes   Thu Aug 28 2014, 06:34

I really hope they get better rules. I got some third party minis that would be insanely awesome as them!
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Squidmaster
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PostSubject: Re: Bet on Mandrakes   Thu Aug 28 2014, 11:47

I do think they will get better.
Like them or not, they have been firmly entrenched in the background and atmosphere of Dark Eldar. In the classic Codex they were still fairly decent, but I think someone at GW would have noticed how completely useless they;ve become, and a move will be made to rectify this.
Maybe its mindless optimism, but I don't think we've seen the last of the Mandrakes. I think they'll rise again (and I can dig the 30 out of their box again.......).
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Bet on Mandrakes   Thu Aug 28 2014, 11:56

I'm honestly not sure that GW understand why certain units are never, ever, ever seen on the battlefield. Assault units that basically cannot assault are not going to be used by anyone no matter how lovely the models may be. Mandrakes, Howling Banshees, Flayed Ones, Warp Talons. All units that are poor in assault and/or never going to get into an assault. I'm sure there are others but those will do to start with.

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Skulnbonz
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PostSubject: Re: Bet on Mandrakes   Thu Aug 28 2014, 13:17

Starting with a pain token and giving them assault grenades, at the price they are now. THEN they will see play.

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Lord_Alino
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PostSubject: Re: Bet on Mandrakes   Thu Aug 28 2014, 22:42

Let them start with Pain Tokens GW. Come on, atleast make them decent.
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urden93
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PostSubject: Re: Bet on Mandrakes   Sat Aug 30 2014, 13:38

im not sure if that pain token start helps them that much, they can throw coldfire and have fnp5+ yay they stil T3 with no armor in 5+ invul (basically daemons), without any AP weapon, infil is so unfluffy for them with the rulebook restricts, even eldar Scorpions de the same and they are not emerging from shadows, at least Shadestalker/walker of hidden path rule. Banshees at least got assault platforms with 7th ed (evenmore so if raider gonna get fast choise like GK/SW transports) oh and the farseer with hammerhand and screwing perils with ghosthelm
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PostSubject: Re: Bet on Mandrakes   Sat Aug 30 2014, 13:46

Starting with a token would give them FNP 5+ and Baleblast. It'd make them better. Being able to Assault Turn 1 would be nice too but that won't happen.
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PostSubject: Re: Bet on Mandrakes   Sat Aug 30 2014, 15:35

Voted last point since it's the most realistic
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wanderingblade
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PostSubject: Re: Bet on Mandrakes   Sat Aug 30 2014, 17:16

I'm with the Count.

GW have a real blind spot on the utility of assault units with poor survivability for cost, and they have another blind spot as towards the usefulness of infiltrate. Mandrakes are both; the idea they'll be well executed is another to flabber my ghast.
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Mayk0l
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PostSubject: Re: Bet on Mandrakes   Sun Sep 07 2014, 21:02

Not going to happen. They'll be just as bad is what I'm guessing.
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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: Bet on Mandrakes   Mon Sep 08 2014, 00:52

wanderingblade wrote:
I'm with the Count.

GW have a real blind spot on the utility of assault units with poor survivability for cost, and they have another blind spot as towards the usefulness of infiltrate. Mandrakes are both; the idea they'll be well executed is another to flabber my ghast.
lol!

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PostSubject: Re: Bet on Mandrakes   Mon Sep 08 2014, 01:07

I'm firmly in the "It would hard to make them suckier" camp. If they were to make the Baleblast not require a pain token AND count as assault grenades as well I'd be game to try them out (mostly because I've already painted them Mad )

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PostSubject: Re: Bet on Mandrakes   Wed Sep 10 2014, 17:34

I think they will get tweaked to have the Shrouded special rule since it's entry in the rulebook fits them perfectly. Add in Stealth for nightfighting and you really aren't going to see those Mandrakes coming since they are shadows!

As for usability, I hope they start with a pain token or get a significant melee buff. As they are right now they can't be used for anything, not even harrassment which is the usual role for infiltrators.
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PostSubject: Re: Bet on Mandrakes   Tue Sep 16 2014, 14:48

People are trying to tweak the current rules with pain tokens and such. I think we should be thinking more along the lines of totally overhauling them. In my opinion most 'stealth' units should have rules similar to the new Callidus Assassin rules. They should also have shrouded, a 4++ and the ability to actually hurt something when they get there. Rending at the very least. Some kind of rule to represent them appearing from the shadow of their prey and moving between shadows would be cool.

I don't expect them to do a good job of it though.

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Bet on Mandrakes   Tue Sep 16 2014, 15:15

Anggul wrote:
People are trying to tweak the current rules with pain tokens and such. I think we should be thinking more along the lines of totally overhauling them. In my opinion most 'stealth' units should have rules similar to the new Callidus Assassin rules. They should also have shrouded, a 4++ and the ability to actually hurt something when they get there. Rending at the very least. Some kind of rule to represent them appearing from the shadow of their prey and moving between shadows would be cool.

I don't expect them to do a good job of it though.

I agree. Many moons ago in a rules development thread I suggested that Mandrakes should have a "Strike from the Shadows" rule that lets them emerge from their opponents shadows. This would count as having assault grenades (as they emerge inside any cover the enemy is in) and prevent the enemy from firing Overwatch (as they appear in point blank range/behind the enemy). This would certainly make them a bit more intimidating, although we're still left with a rather lackluster combat ability.

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Lord_Alino
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PostSubject: Re: Bet on Mandrakes   Wed Sep 17 2014, 01:09

Mandrakes need to be like Genestealers from 5th edition. Being allowed to assault when they enter the field. And START with a pain token please!
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perhow
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PostSubject: Re: Bet on Mandrakes   Fri Sep 26 2014, 23:16

Being pessimistic they'll be our new Codex's Banshees. (never off my shelf)
Being optimistic they'll give us some nice way to break up a gunline.
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PostSubject: Re: Bet on Mandrakes   Thu Oct 02 2014, 05:16

12 points a model, start with baleblast, stealth, and shrouded. They'll probably be a staple.
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