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 Are Dark Eldar Scary or Killy?

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Tounguekutter
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PostSubject: Are Dark Eldar Scary or Killy?   Fri Aug 15 2014, 03:56

I have heard some people say that Dark Eldar are Fast, Scary, and Fragile. I have heard others say that Dark Eldar are Fast, Killy, and Fragile. I think we can all agree, non-coven Dark Eldar are meant to be Fast and Fragile. But I like the way the 5th edition codex introduction puts it "[Dark Eldar] are very fast moving, have lots of firepower, and have some of the most lethal close-combat units in the game." I like that flavor of Dark Eldar. It hits home the idea that Dark Eldar have the potential for the highest total damage out-put in the game. Personally, I would rather leave the scare-tactics at summer camp and make the third element "overwhelmingly destructive." What is your impression of the Dark Eldar? Should we hope for an amended Pain Token system that allows us to gain Pain Tokens without killing the whole unit, and we win our battles by running most of the opponent's army off the table? Or do we simply kill them all before they can raise a hand to strike back? What is the essential Dark Eldar trait besides Fast and Fragile: Scary or Lethal?

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PostSubject: Re: Are Dark Eldar Scary or Killy?   Fri Aug 15 2014, 05:29

id like us to be Scary, especially in the assault phase. Most of our units are assault based but we dont seem to inspire fear in assault because Overwatch exploits our fragile ways. I want to go first in a fight, hit like a truck (which we sad dont with our low str) and if the opponent survives the first round then we get ripped to shreds.

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PostSubject: Re: Are Dark Eldar Scary or Killy?   Fri Aug 15 2014, 05:38

I agree with Foo. In my most recent (and only one in 7th ed.), I lost a unit of Scourges to overwatch and my Wych assault was limited by it. Both because of template weapons which apparently auto-hit. The game mechanics make some sense... I just wish I could have returned the favor. IIRC, the only flame templates we have are Haemonculus weapons, which I don't take in my fluffy list (which I was running).

Honestly, they should be Scary because they are Lethally Fast. How to achieve that, however, is beyond me.

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PostSubject: Re: Are Dark Eldar Scary or Killy?   Fri Aug 15 2014, 06:36

We must be as scary as we can.

So our enemy would panic before battle starts. And then we use our speed and firepower to quickly destroy them

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PostSubject: Re: Are Dark Eldar Scary or Killy?   Fri Aug 15 2014, 16:30

So you all agree we should be Scary - as in have special rules and weapons that reflect just how scary we really are? Would you say we should have scare tactics and make running off the board a real way of destroying or neutralizing units? A special rule for assault units which allows them to scare a unit and make a Sweeping Advances easier, perhaps?

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I am very excited by the new 8th edition and what it will bring for Dark Eldar.  I have a hard time believing it will be overall worse than our situation as of 7th.  I am always happy to talk wishlisting and fandexes in any edition from 4-on.  I have written multiple fan codexes (3 and a "mini-fandex" which was totally ridiculous), the latest of which (for 7th edition) can be found here.
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PostSubject: Re: Are Dark Eldar Scary or Killy?   Fri Aug 15 2014, 16:43

Actually terror tactics is something I would like to see in the new codex, maybe some bonuses to HQ and some troops...pairing them with pain tokens

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PostSubject: Re: Are Dark Eldar Scary or Killy?   Fri Aug 15 2014, 18:12

The biggest problem with terror tactics is the amount of armies it wouldnt work against. All the Space Marines armies, chaos, nids, necrons. I wouldnt want a big new added thing that works on just a few armies.

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PostSubject: Re: Are Dark Eldar Scary or Killy?   Fri Aug 15 2014, 18:24

Aaaand on the other hand ignoring Fearless, And They Shall Know No Fear, etc. might be too O.P. On the other hand the sheer number of Marine armies out there would make it useless if it didn't get around their special rule. That's why I think we can more or less wave in-game terror tactics goodbye - we'll still be the scariest, it just won't translate into rules.

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I am very excited by the new 8th edition and what it will bring for Dark Eldar.  I have a hard time believing it will be overall worse than our situation as of 7th.  I am always happy to talk wishlisting and fandexes in any edition from 4-on.  I have written multiple fan codexes (3 and a "mini-fandex" which was totally ridiculous), the latest of which (for 7th edition) can be found here.
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PostSubject: Re: Are Dark Eldar Scary or Killy?   Fri Aug 15 2014, 18:25

That's true Foostickens, but maybe terror could be translated as a discipline debuff for istance...facing an Archon cover by blood holding a soul prison with half of my squad mates' souls trapped inside...well, that's not a good way to start the day, even if I shall know no fear...

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PostSubject: Re: Are Dark Eldar Scary or Killy?   Fri Aug 15 2014, 19:13

Everybody should fear us.

 pirat 

I would love if we had leadship and moral focussed damage, ofcourse those powers must also affect sm and fearless units. Otherwise it would be pretty useless.
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PostSubject: Re: Are Dark Eldar Scary or Killy?   Fri Aug 15 2014, 19:42

@doriii wrote:
Everybody should fear us.

 pirat 

I would love if we had leadship and moral focussed damage, ofcourse those powers must also affect sm and fearless units. Otherwise it would be pretty useless.

I agree. Although I think when it effects SM the only things they can't roll are double sixes or double ones.

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PostSubject: Re: Are Dark Eldar Scary or Killy?   Sat Aug 16 2014, 01:51

I'd be okay with more weapons that wound based on Leadership as long as they were paired with weapons that could lower leadership. Or better yet, a weapon that can lower leadership with one mode, and then does damage by wounding on leadership with the other mode. Should I move this discussion to the Rules Development forum?

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I am very excited by the new 8th edition and what it will bring for Dark Eldar.  I have a hard time believing it will be overall worse than our situation as of 7th.  I am always happy to talk wishlisting and fandexes in any edition from 4-on.  I have written multiple fan codexes (3 and a "mini-fandex" which was totally ridiculous), the latest of which (for 7th edition) can be found here.
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PostSubject: Re: Are Dark Eldar Scary or Killy?   Sat Aug 16 2014, 08:01

Well, i think our codex will be pretty the same. Some new units maybe. Warlord traits. Thats all probably. But who knows. Maybe we will get our terrorfex back or some new terrifiyng weapon.

Eldar has D-wepons.
Marines have grav-weapons.
Wolves have cold-weapons (who know what it does?)
Why DE couldn`t have some terror\fear\horror-weapons??

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PostSubject: Re: Are Dark Eldar Scary or Killy?   Sat Aug 16 2014, 12:43

Being killy is what makes you scary!

GW is not good at making rules for fear based weapons.
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PostSubject: Re: Are Dark Eldar Scary or Killy?   Sat Aug 16 2014, 17:45

@Painjunky wrote:
Being killy is what makes you scary!

GW is not good at making rules for fear based weapons.

Sure, but they good at making realy imbalanced BFGuns  Very Happy 
So why not bring some to us and call it ''fear\terror'' weapons?

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PostSubject: Re: Are Dark Eldar Scary or Killy?   Sun Aug 17 2014, 15:25

Oh yeah... Scary. If you ever read the 3rd edition Dark Eldar Codex, we were meant to be SCARY. An Archon with an Incubus Retinue was hands down the best Close Combat unit in the game, Hit like a truck but died quick if it didnt kill what it charged (Which was unlikely!)

And does any one remember the Terrorfex? Horrorfex? these required pinning checks at a -1 for every model under the blast template! and of course, what about The Nightmare Doll? These are all pieces of wargear that I have a good feeling will be brought back and re-vamped in our next Codex update.
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PostSubject: Re: Are Dark Eldar Scary or Killy?   Sun Aug 17 2014, 16:48

Why not both? People that I game with are regularly worried about facing the Dark Eldar because of lightning fast and face-smashy they are.

But I'd agree that we're killy and fragile. This combination is one of the frustrating things about playing Dark Eldar... it's very rare to, in my experience, have a close game. Normally we either obliterate people through sheer speed and power, or get absolutely manhandled by the opposition. I would like to see stuff that ties into the fear aspect more though... maybe stuff that works off the opposition's leadership, with the ability to screw around with leadership a little bit. Things like Vect's Orbs or the Necron Despair-thingy that crypteks have (A flamer that wounds against your leadership)

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PostSubject: Re: Are Dark Eldar Scary or Killy?   Mon Aug 18 2014, 12:27



Why choose?

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PostSubject: Re: Are Dark Eldar Scary or Killy?   Mon Aug 18 2014, 12:48

Lol Hex you're right

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PostSubject: Re: Are Dark Eldar Scary or Killy?   Mon Jun 13 2016, 14:52

From my point of view, the Dark Eldar have the potential of scoring decicive victories in another way than the more toe-to-toe based armies. What they lack in defense, they make up for in offense and utility. They have a scary damage output. Being able to score ten wounds from one venom with kabs is rewarding. However, having many of these units can be a downfall if lots of them are shot down.

It requires synergy between the squads. Knowing were to place them, every move, every twitch your opponent make will be crucial for his fate. I see the DE as the opposite to Space Marines.
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PostSubject: Re: Are Dark Eldar Scary or Killy?   Mon Jun 13 2016, 16:12

I think space marines ATSKNF rule is the problem with our "scary" rules. If they just made all of our stuff work on everything except MODELS with the fearless special rule, our scary stuff would be absolutely fine. Awesome, even.

The fact that they make it 100% not work on half the things you face due to this ridiculous special rule is the problem.

Honestly, they should rename the rule to something else so that writers stop making it equivalent to being fearless, since space marines DO run away and fail morale checks and such. They just auto-rally. That doesn't sound like they know no fear to me. More like they get over their fear quicker than the average smurf.

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PostSubject: Re: Are Dark Eldar Scary or Killy?   Mon Jun 13 2016, 16:30

@BetrayTheWorld wrote:
I think space marines ATSKNF rule is the problem with our "scary" rules. If they just made all of our stuff work on everything except MODELS with the fearless special rule, our scary stuff would be absolutely fine. Awesome, even.

The fact that they make it 100% not work on half the things you face due to this ridiculous special rule is the problem.

Honestly, they should rename the rule to something else so that writers stop making it equivalent to being fearless, since space marines DO run away and fail morale checks and such. They just auto-rally. That doesn't sound like they know no fear to me. More like they get over their fear quicker than the average smurf.

You're not wrong, though too many people seem to equate 'falling back' with 'running away' when the former is an ordered withdrawal back to a position of greater protection (older version of the 40k ruleset I believe allowed a regroup to be made upon reaching cover, something the necromunda rules copied) whilst the second is a headlong dash off the battlefield never to be seen again except at the loud end of a commissar's gun. The fall back move therefore isn't due to being afraid as much as recognising that to continue to advance in that fashion is tactically unsound.

Of course that's all screwed over by the fact they then call it a morale check, which implies the opposite.

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PostSubject: Re: Are Dark Eldar Scary or Killy?   Mon Jun 13 2016, 17:02

@The_Burning_Eye wrote:

You're not wrong, though too many people seem to equate 'falling back' with 'running away' when the former is an ordered withdrawal back to a position of greater protection (older version of the 40k ruleset I believe allowed a regroup to be made upon reaching cover, something the necromunda rules copied) whilst the second is a headlong dash off the battlefield never to be seen again except at the loud end of a commissar's gun. The fall back move therefore isn't due to being afraid as much as recognising that to continue to advance in that fashion is tactically unsound.

Well, there is certainly SOME element of fear involved there if the mechanics are to be believed, since the space marines can't just choose to pass or fail. A failed morale forces them to run away, regardless of what they think is the most tactically sound decision.

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PostSubject: Re: Are Dark Eldar Scary or Killy?   Mon Jun 13 2016, 18:13

I beleive the Terror based attacks are awesome and should be a focus for Dark Eldar warfare. Simply breaking mens willingness to fight by the sheer ferocity, grace and aspect of our warriors. It should be frightening to even contemplate combat with us, even when/if the reality isnt as great.

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PostSubject: Re: Are Dark Eldar Scary or Killy?   Mon Jun 13 2016, 22:11

We should be able to override ATSKNF to some degree - like during turns of Nightfighting....when attacking from reserves....or when in close combat and if the dark eldar model count is double that of the opponents unit....

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