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Theatakcat
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PostSubject: Re: Miniwargaming Video   Mon Sep 29 2014, 18:04

@notts wrote:
The Dark Eldar background is amongst the worst in the game. Horribly over written full of cliches and entirely unrealistic. In a society where dying is so bad, going around murdering all your fellow Deldar just makes no sense whatsoever

The warhammer 40k universe doesn't make sense, if there was reasonable behaviour it wouldn't be 40k would it?

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notts
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PostSubject: Re: Miniwargaming Video   Mon Sep 29 2014, 18:06

The fluff is horribly written, like it's from a 15 year old with a thesaurus.

again, not unusual for 40k as you pointed out.

Deldar as in the fluff would also run away when facing anything that wasnt an undefended farming colony. It makes no sense to fight, and die, vs SM.

I play mine as pretty generic space pirates. I think it makes a lot more sense.
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Theatakcat
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PostSubject: Re: Miniwargaming Video   Mon Sep 29 2014, 18:10

@notts wrote:
The fluff is horribly written, like it's from a 15 year old with a thesaurus.

again, not unusual for 40k as you pointed out.

Deldar as in the fluff would also run away when facing anything that wasnt an undefended farming colony. It makes no sense to fight, and die, vs SM.

I play mine as pretty generic space pirates. I think it makes a lot more sense.

I could think of quite a few reasons why Deldar would fight against Space marines, first of all their heads would be great trophies, and their bodies can withstand a bit of pain so they are perfect soul food back in Commorragh. Wych cults for example just do battles for the thrill of it, meaning that they would not go into a battle of one-sided slaughter but a fair battle to test their skill and mettle.

And space pirates are awesome, and fluff isn't great but if you look at the fluff while whacking yourself with a hammer it makes a lot more sense Smile

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notts
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PostSubject: Re: Miniwargaming Video   Mon Sep 29 2014, 18:12

For a dying race where death means you go to hell to get bummed by a giant demon when he eats your soul, fighting to test their skill and mettle makes no sense.

But hey, I thivk allying with eldar make a No sense and we're bb
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Hijallo
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PostSubject: Re: Miniwargaming Video   Mon Sep 29 2014, 18:17

DE aren't exactly dying race. In fact, they can be as numerous as Commoragh can sustain, and that's damn big pocket dimension.
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Theatakcat
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PostSubject: Re: Miniwargaming Video   Mon Sep 29 2014, 18:18

Just remember that Dark Eldar are so arrogant that they don't believe that they will actually die.

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PostSubject: Re: Miniwargaming Video   Mon Sep 29 2014, 18:18

At the risk of everyone's ire, the only problem I have with the video is it seems there will be less Dark Eldar in their bat reps.

We are absolutely the worst faction, morally, that's part of why we have so few players. Our archons used to wear masks made out of a human's face. Urien stole how many friendly Tau and converted them into grotesques? Malys basically stole the human cure to everything, just to standout, and now it collects dust in Vect's vault. If you're captured by most armies you're killed or eaten. If you're captured by Dark Eldar you are used until there is nothing left to use.

That being said the lore is good. Dying is really bad, and killing your fellow DEldar is part of how you prevent it. That's why it makes sense. DEldar don't have soul stones, they only live forever so long as they stay at the top of the food chain. And they stay at the top and alive so long as they capture slaves.

With that you could argue they're only as evil as tyranids, because they do what they have to do to stay alive.

But hey, they had the opportunity to follow Craftworld Eldar into boredom. They said F that. Give me drugs, give me slaves, hand me that spirit probe over there, and we'll party like it's 30,999.

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PostSubject: Re: Miniwargaming Video   Mon Sep 29 2014, 18:23

@Expletive Deleted wrote:
But hey, they had the opportunity to follow Craftworld Eldar into boredom. They said F that. Give me drugs, give me slaves, hand me that spirit probe over there, and we'll party like it's 30,999.

Best summarisation of Dark Eldar ever.

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notts
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PostSubject: Re: Miniwargaming Video   Mon Sep 29 2014, 18:27

Until I inevitably die from a Bolter shell, get stabbed in the back by my comrade, and get bummed by a demon in hell while he eats my soul!
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The Red King
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PostSubject: Re: Miniwargaming Video   Mon Sep 29 2014, 19:33

But that will never happen as you are a true eldar, the midst perfect of beings and coincidentally better than all other dark eldar too.

Gotta go all the way into the mindset before you can try to see through their eyes.

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notts
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PostSubject: Re: Miniwargaming Video   Mon Sep 29 2014, 20:46

@The Red King wrote:
But that will never happen as you are a true eldar,  the midst perfect of beings and coincidentally better than all other dark eldar too.

Gotta go all the way into the mindset before you can try to see through their eyes.
They'd have been wiped out ten year after the fall.

The name of the arcane war gear is also illustrative of my "15 year old with a thesaurus theory".

Orb of despair/

Casket of flensing.

Crucible of malediction.

Archangel of pain

Flesh gauntlet.

Its legitimately the worst written fluff I've ever read.

Knife " flickers out like the tongues of serpents as they bathe in the proximity of each wound "

Someone actually got paid for writing a book which contains the sentence "bathe in the proximity of each wound"

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Hijallo
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PostSubject: Re: Miniwargaming Video   Mon Sep 29 2014, 20:52

Well, open any BL book (preferably one about Marines), and you'll really see much, much, infinitely much worse writing.

But i don't get the point. This is a forum about Dark Eldar. If you don't like them, there is Warseer and forums dedicated to other factions.
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Klaivex Charondyr
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PostSubject: Re: Miniwargaming Video   Mon Sep 29 2014, 21:15

@notts wrote:
@The Red King wrote:
But that will never happen as you are a true eldar,  the midst perfect of beings and coincidentally better than all other dark eldar too.

Gotta go all the way into the mindset before you can try to see through their eyes.
They'd have been wiped out ten year after the fall.

The name of the arcane war gear is also illustrative of my "15 year old with a thesaurus theory".

Orb of despair/

Casket of flensing.

Crucible of malediction.

Archangel of pain

Flesh gauntlet.

Its legitimately the worst written fluff I've ever read.

Knife " flickers out like the tongues of serpents as they bathe in the proximity of each wound "

Someone actually got paid for writing a book which contains the sentence "bathe in the proximity of each wound"


Murderfang with his Murderclaws suffering from Murderlust wants to have a word with you.
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PostSubject: Re: Miniwargaming Video   Mon Sep 29 2014, 21:31

@notts wrote:
@The Red King wrote:
But that will never happen as you are a true eldar,  the midst perfect of beings and coincidentally better than all other dark eldar too.

Gotta go all the way into the mindset before you can try to see through their eyes.
They'd have been wiped out ten year after the fall.

The name of the arcane war gear is also illustrative of my "15 year old with a thesaurus theory".

Why would they have been wiped out in 10 years? Infighting. I remind you infighting is essential in any villainous organization. The mafia, the yakuza, drug cartels are all still things. They haven't wiped themselves out. Hell there are still pirates. There are African Warlords that still survive despite an AIDS and Ebola epidemic. So just because there's a little friendly competition between Archons would not ensure their demise. Especially when they live in the safest place in the galaxy that only their cousins can really navigate to. Social Darwinism is a thing and for good or ill it hasn't proven to work or not work.

And please don't make fun of our relic names while objects like:

The Burning Blade

The Murder Sword

Firesaber

Deathspitter

The space wolf codex

Are things in this universe. Taken from other codices.

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Calyptra
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PostSubject: Re: Miniwargaming Video   Mon Sep 29 2014, 21:43

From the 5th ed codex:

"Dark Eldar society thrives on treachery. Murder is rife, and each realspace raid carries a high chance of mortality, for the lesser races of the galaxy are not without their defenses. How then can Commorragh endure against the omnipresent shadow of sudden death?

"Most Dark Eldar warriors, including each Kabal's ruling elite, will at some point enter into a terrible pact with the Haemonculi that lurk beneath the core. The pact states that the Haemonculi will regenerate the warrior's body should he die, and in exchange, the seeker will leave the Haemonculi a permanent portion of his soul. Even a corpse that has been all but destroyed in the crucible of war can be restored to its former glory - the Master Haemonculus Urien Rakarth once crafted a perfect new Archon Vriech from a single withered hand. Provided this process is enacted within a day or so of the warrior's demise, and his will is strong enough that some of his spirit still resonates within his remains, his animus will slowly regenerate along with his physical form. Hence Kabals upon realspace raids take great pains to strike hard and fast, returning before the night is out with the remains of their deceased in order that their strongest warriors - barring the occasional ever-so-unfortunate accident - can return to life."

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notts
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PostSubject: Re: Miniwargaming Video   Mon Sep 29 2014, 21:46

@Expletive Deleted wrote:
@notts wrote:
@The Red King wrote:
But that will never happen as you are a true eldar,  the midst perfect of beings and coincidentally better than all other dark eldar too.

Gotta go all the way into the mindset before you can try to see through their eyes.
They'd have been wiped out ten year after the fall.

The name of the arcane war gear is also illustrative of my "15 year old with a thesaurus theory".

Why would they have been wiped out in 10 years? Infighting. I remind you infighting is essential in any villainous organization. The mafia, the yakuza, drug cartels are all still things. They haven't wiped themselves out. Hell there are still pirates. There are African Warlords that still survive despite an AIDS and Ebola epidemic. So just because there's a little friendly competition between Archons would not ensure their demise. Especially when they live in the safest place in the galaxy that only their cousins can really navigate to. Social Darwinism is a thing and for good or ill it hasn't proven to work or not work.

And please don't make fun of our relic names while objects like:

The Burning Blade

The Murder Sword

Firesaber

Deathspitter

The space wolf codex

Are things in this universe. Taken from other codices.

murderclaw also got heavily loled at by me when I read it.

humans dont breed at eldar rates

and commoragh is described as a war zone, so not sure why you think its safe?
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Klaivex Charondyr
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PostSubject: Re: Miniwargaming Video   Mon Sep 29 2014, 21:53

Quote :
humans dont breed at eldar rates

Thats right, Dark Eldar breed faster. Except for the Trueborn (which are few) they are all raised in Tubes within a few Weeks.
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PostSubject: Re: Miniwargaming Video   Mon Sep 29 2014, 21:56

@notts wrote:


murderclaw also got heavily loled at by me when I read it.

humans dont breed at eldar rates

and commoragh is described as a war zone, so not sure why you think its safe?

Well Dark Eldar don't breed at Eldar rates, as mentioned earlier they can be brought back from the dead, and they do a lot of cloning, hence Trueborn.

And when I said safe, I meant from outside forces. While there is tons of infighting, they don't have to worry about a third party coming in and mopping them up, meaning even at the apex of infighting there would still be one Dark Eldar left, and if it was a clever Haemonculus he could probably regenerate the entire race. And generally from what I've read whenever there is an invasion the infighting immediately stops until the threat is dealt with.

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Hijallo
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PostSubject: Re: Miniwargaming Video   Mon Sep 29 2014, 22:00

Universe in Wh40k is described as a war zone. Commoragh is inaccessible from outside, provided that it's denizens or Harlequins didn't grant a special permission. And it's huge. I mean, it's really frak huge. "The biggest Imperial hive to Commoragh is what termit mould is to a mountain" or something like that. It probably houses more wrecthed souls than a dozen Imperial Sectors (hives are not quite common, and outside of them population density of the Imperium is pretty scarce). Not all of them are Dark Eldar, of course. But all dwellers of the Dark City certainly behave in a similar way to ensure their survival.
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PostSubject: Re: Miniwargaming Video   Thu Oct 02 2014, 19:23

I'd like to say that I am a church going Christian and my main army is the Dark Eldar. I love the models and the fluff. I read the novels. It's just a frakking story, for crying out loud. No true evil exists in the 40k fluff. All of the factions are acting in their own self interest. The only "pure" faction is tyranids because they are just doing what animals do.
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PostSubject: Re: Miniwargaming Video   Thu Oct 02 2014, 20:58

I remember watching a video in mwg vault around 3 years ago. mwgMatt went up against a venom spam list of totally epic cheeseness. Unsurprisingly he got shown the door.

During his narration of the "bat rep", you could here him get more agitated by the minute as his own (cheese list) was mopped around his own studio floor. (Haha) Twisted Evil

I have to admit he's also intimated in one of his "sit and talks" that he doesn't approve of gay people. I really hope he doesn't go much further with that line of reasoning. Such a shame to, war gaming is the one place you think we can geek out and have fun, like being an archon for the evening!

IMHO I feel like I get more religious talk than war gaming talk. .....and I'm the mug because I'm paying him! Razz ..
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PostSubject: Re: Miniwargaming Video   Thu Oct 02 2014, 23:34

In case nobody mentioned it yet, I would love a 40k Community wide rule that before you complain about DE only being perverted hedonists that they read the Dark Eldar Path Trilogy, I think that is probably the "best" illustration of the real Dark Eldar race, not the endless slave orgies every night but lesser Archons plotting to overthrow more powerful Archons, one of the lesser Archons, selling out the group to the more powerful Archon in order to pick up the pieces of their Kabals after the Powerful Archon blasts them to oblivion (AKA normal life in a competitive corporate economy, except Commoragh is probably less bloody than New York City)
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PostSubject: Re: Miniwargaming Video   Fri Oct 03 2014, 00:21

@Larndorn wrote:
In case nobody mentioned it yet, I would love a 40k Community wide rule that before you complain about DE only being perverted hedonists that they read the Dark Eldar Path Trilogy, I think that is probably the "best" illustration of the real Dark Eldar race, not the endless slave orgies every night but lesser Archons plotting to overthrow more powerful Archons, one of the lesser Archons, selling out the group to the more powerful Archon in order to pick up the pieces of their Kabals after the Powerful Archon blasts them to oblivion (AKA normal life in a competitive corporate economy, except Commoragh is probably less bloody than New York City)

I've read the first two. I'd have preferred some more orgies Wink Not really, obviously, but then that's part of the problem with Black Library stuff, it has to appeal to a wide age range. Violence is ok, sex is bad. I was amazed that one of the Ciaphas Cain compendiums had a short story that hinted at the prospect of sex with the involvement of a Slaaneshi cult. That's about the raciest they've ever gotten from what I've read. If Dark Eldar are the most depraved race, they would be doing the most utterly depraved things, and Black Library would be obliged to put Parental Advisory warnings on their products. Ever read American Psycho? Times that by ten, and you still wouldn't be close to how the Dark Eldar behave. They are as messed up as our imaginations will allow, and we're only human. They've had millenia to perfect their arts, and they are much smarter than us.

The DE Path trilogy paints a good picture of the politics and power struggles, even if it does fall somewhat short of portraying the grand, Machiavellian designs that should really be the bread and butter of the protagonists. Unless Andy Chambers somehow deftly weaves it all together in the last book, still need to read that. I'm doubtful. I like Morr and Motley though Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Miniwargaming Video   Fri Oct 03 2014, 01:58

To be fair I read all three books and I'd have preferred more orgies. I'm not kidding. Of course I know they won't write that stuff, but while the book captured Dark Eldar politics, it certainly didn't expound on Dark Eldar culture. Anyone in this thread who claims Dark Eldar is not a race that does these things. Remember, they did it so much Slaanesh was born, and they've been hiding in the webway ever since, because they didn't WANT to stop.

Claiming a race lacks depth though is being ignorant though. I mean I hate Space Marines because they're just a bunch of racist jocks who hurt other species because their grandad on life support is racist. And that's the way he raised'em. Of course some of his grand kids didn't see eye to eye and started worshipping demons. Orcs. C'mon. Fighting fungus? Laughable. Fungus doesn't have a central nervous system. What is this Super Mario? Warchief Goomba in the house! Tau what? Disappeared 10,000 years, and in all that time they only learned how to perfect becoming a race of elitist douche bags? And look if I wanted to fight against metal skeletons, I'd play Robocop vs. Terminator. Please and thank you.

It's also bad when you take any sort of moral high ground:

Space Marines - Eliminating sentient beings because they don't meet your genetic standard? Sounds like something Hitler would do.
Chaos Space Marines - Searching for magical artifacts to further that goal? Sounds like something Hitler would do.
Tau - Offering an ultimatum to either see the world they way you do or die? Sounds like something Hitler would do.
Orks - Having a society based on Malthus' Law? Sounds like something Hitler would do.
Necrons - Trying to seize back power lost to your people after losing a great war? Sounds like something Hitler would do.
Astra Militarum - "I was just doing my job." Sounds like what someone working for Hitler would say.

You know what Hitler never had? A swingin' orgy. So that settles it.

Dark Eldar. We're not Hitler.

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PostSubject: Re: Miniwargaming Video   Fri Oct 03 2014, 02:14

@Expletive Deleted wrote:
Dark Eldar. We're not Hitler.

Dear mods,
Can this be our tagline?

Everything you say is true Expletive Deleted, the grey morality of 40K is what I love so much about it!
The lack of Dark Eldar culture in the books was a bit disappointing, but Andy Chambers is an Ork player, what else would we expect? Wink

I'd say Dark Eldar have the best background. Anyone who disagrees, I have four words for them to seal the deal: Nymphomaniac vampire space pirates. Oh yeah.

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