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CheeZe
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PostSubject: Miniwargaming Video   Wed Aug 13 2014, 20:27

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKdjYX-Wg-c&list=UU2mQ7x6K74NBfmxBoMwZCnw

Don't know who's seen (or knows about) the MiniWarGaming video released yesterday about why one of their staff doesn't like DE and why they will probably never have DE events. It doesn't really mean much since he's got some rather stupid reasons.

My main question is Are we really that much worse than everyone else? After all, isn't Chaos pure evil? Aren't the Nids out to eat us all? Isn't the Imperium's stated goal to commit genocide on anyone who doesn't agree with them?
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Dethdispenser
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PostSubject: Re: Miniwargaming Video   Wed Aug 13 2014, 20:48

I see a bunch of people comment and say the DE army is boring and the characters have no depth.

I responded: with a list of other armies.
Nids : Kill - Consume - Move to next planet
Orks : Start Waagh - Fight - continue to fight - continue to fight - continue to fight
Space Marines : I have a hard on for a corpse - Do I still have my man parts? - Xeno Bad, Heretic Bad - Down with Chaos.
IG : Where are we going? - Defend this sector - DIE - Start again
Tau : Greater Good - Don't believe in greater good? - We teach you Greater Good - Still don't believe in Greater Good - You die
Eldar : Emotions bad - Stay calm - Mysterious dicks of space
Daemons : Corrupt souls - consume souls - stroke our 'gods' egos (testicles)
Chaos : How can i stroke my 'gods' ego (testicles)? - I know insert what my god loves and do it - I start a black crusade.

See how I can make other armies boring?
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PostSubject: Re: Miniwargaming Video   Wed Aug 13 2014, 22:25

Hi, been playing DE about a year and have to say this Matt guy is incredibly misguided in his opinion of Dark Eldar background. I actually find some of it to be hilarious (Here comes the space ship! BOOM!)

I left this on the video:
Quote :
TBH you sound like someone talking about the Dark Eldar but not actually knowing a thing about them. Have you read their background Matt?

A lot of folks (store staff included) paint them as a one-dimensional sex cult but they go a lot deeper. The Dark Eldar are a race of comic book super-villains with a megalomania complex stretching so far into exaggeration and overblown schemes that they start to become a black comedy. Want your rival wiped out? Go out, get a black hole, put it in a box, give it to him and run away cackling. Fancy something easier? Open an inter-spacial rift above your rival's house and dump an Imperial Cruiser on his head in an apocalyptic explosion. Want to take over Commorragh? Break the sacred rules, summon a horde of daemons at your command. Now I command you to go forth and...who locked the door? I can't get out. Why is this Bloodthirster looking at me angrily? VEEEEECCCTTTT!!!!

You are missing out on some of the most amazing background the 40k universe has to offer. It is filled with political schemes, grandiose shows of power, regular civil and excessively bloodthirsty wars and all with the sub-story of a race that believes it is invincible but knows that is also undergoing a constant battle for survival that puts their very souls at risk. And they will do whatever they can do keep their souls out of desperation.

Quite a far tale from your idea they are a group of space pirates looking to get their rocks off with a whip.

As for not wanting to be taken by the Dark Eldar as prisoners...good. Working as intended then. Smile
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Theatakcat
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PostSubject: Re: Miniwargaming Video   Wed Aug 13 2014, 23:00

Matt's just jealous that all his big scary monsters are quite easily taken down by our effective use of our poison.

On a more mature note, although the DE have torture and they do twisted things there fluff is very funny and quite amusing. I think it is very different to the rest of the background because the Dark Eldar view the galaxy as their playground not their prison.
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Barking Agatha
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PostSubject: Re: Miniwargaming Video   Wed Aug 13 2014, 23:41

What does it matter whether he likes the dark eldar or not?

Some people just have limited imaginations, and become upset by anything outside of their own comfort zones. It's too weird and strong and it scares them. It's a bit sad, but that's no reason to pick on them; let them be. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Miniwargaming Video   Thu Aug 14 2014, 06:33

Yeah, you can sum up any faction's backstory in so few words! Or anything at all, in fact. My dad once told me that he thought liking skiing was stupid "because it's just sliding down a hill on two sticks."

People are quick to dismiss what they don't understand or can't do. Apparently mwgMatt can't figure dark eldar out ^^

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Mr Believer
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PostSubject: Re: Miniwargaming Video   Thu Aug 14 2014, 09:24

I knew it would be Matt who had a problem with Dark Eldar before I even read the other comments. Matt is a practicing Mormon, so as such has certain views about sexuality that would mean he definitely wouldn't get on with Dark Eldar. I seem to remember one video where he talked about how much he'd enjoyed the first Ender's Game book, but wouldn't read the second because it introduced elements of sexuality that made him uncomfortable. Games Workshop have always been quite good at skirting round that area generally... except with Dark Eldar. Didn't Kruellagh carry a weapon called an emasculator? There are multiple mentions of pleasure cults, their high ranking wyches are called succubi, Vect has lots of prostitutes in tow... They are definitely the most offensive army. Whilst I find his view to be a little blinkered, if it's part of his faith then there's no convincing him otherwise, and it's his store.

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Painjunky
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PostSubject: Re: Miniwargaming Video   Thu Aug 14 2014, 11:52

I've found many people feel "uncomfortable" about DE like this matt person does.

IMO this is because DE are the only Adults Only, R or XXX rated army in the 40k universe other than Slaanesh. Not surprising as DE spawned Slaanesh.

DE draw their life force from excess and vice taken to the perverse extremes and they revel in it.

Some cannot handle this level of "realness" in a fantasy game and it makes their skin crawl. A minority (myself included) were attracted to DE precisely because of this.
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Mr Believer
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PostSubject: Re: Miniwargaming Video   Thu Aug 14 2014, 12:07

Painjunky wrote:
I've found many people feel "uncomfortable" about DE like this matt person does.  

IMO this is because DE are the only Adults Only, R or XXX rated army in the 40k universe other than Slaanesh. Not surprising as DE spawned Slaanesh.

DE draw their life force from excess and vice taken to the perverse extremes and they revel in it.

Some cannot handle this level of "realness" in a fantasy game and it makes their skin crawl. A minority (myself included) were attracted to DE precisely because of this.

Exactly. In all honesty, if the fiction and fluff even vaguely reflected how they should be, it would be unpublishable!

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Barking Agatha
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PostSubject: Re: Miniwargaming Video   Thu Aug 14 2014, 12:17

Mr Believer wrote:
Matt is a practicing Mormon...

Ah. Well, he'll get it right eventually... practice makes perfect!

*ducks and runs away*
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Miniwargaming Video   Thu Aug 14 2014, 12:23

Barking Agatha wrote:
Mr Believer wrote:
Matt is a practicing Mormon...

Ah. Well, he'll get it right eventually... practice makes perfect!

*ducks and runs away*

I'm more worried about practising physicians. Can I have one who doesn't need to practise on me please?

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Mr Believer
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PostSubject: Re: Miniwargaming Video   Thu Aug 14 2014, 12:25

Ok, ok, practising, I know it's practising, even though the spellchecker disagrees. Knew I should have ignored it  tongue 

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PostSubject: Re: Miniwargaming Video   Thu Aug 14 2014, 14:11

He doesn't like Dark Eldar because of their lore?

This really seemed to be a fairly poor argument to me. In my mind Dark Eldar fit in really well, almost too well compared to some other armies. I like to look at most of the 40k races as the stages of grief.
In the grim darkness, etc, anything Imperial comes under Denail. They are struggling on in absolute faith of their abilities and their Emperor. its not dark and horrible, everything is fine, OBEY!
Orks, and to a degree Tyrnaids, are the wash of Anger. Orks especially simply rage at the universe, good or bad.
The Eldar are the clear sign of bargaining. Their time is done, but they are desperately trying to cling on to whatever they can.
Depression, well, I think to a certain levels that the Imperium again, but its also the Necrons, having woken from their slumber, they find everything different and just keep drudging on in the vain attempt to put everything back as it was (whatever that hads been retconned to be this week).
DARK ELDAR, well, they are Acceptance. They've seen what the universe is and have accepted it and are simply getting on with their lives and enjoying themselves. Their empire has fallen, but they are still alive, and thats is what is important.

You want to argue that an army's lore isn't great and doesn;t really belong? Well, then we get to the Tau. The one bright and shiny stain on the gloriously dark face of 40k.
Tau, the sixth stage of grief - violent vomitting.
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PostSubject: Re: Miniwargaming Video   Thu Aug 14 2014, 14:32

Well, Matt is certainly allowed to express any opinion he wants, especially in his store. In fact, its a good thing he hates and fears the Dark Eldar so.

That will make is suffering so much more delicious when we defeat him!  pirat 
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PostSubject: Re: Miniwargaming Video   Thu Aug 14 2014, 14:35

Squidmaster wrote:
He doesn't like Dark Eldar because of their lore?
Tau, the sixth stage of grief - violent vomitting.

Dude! What did you eat!!??

 Cool 
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Erebus
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PostSubject: Re: Miniwargaming Video   Thu Aug 14 2014, 14:47

Fish.

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Squidmaster
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PostSubject: Re: Miniwargaming Video   Thu Aug 14 2014, 14:49

Dragontree wrote:
Squidmaster wrote:
He doesn't like Dark Eldar because of their lore?
Tau, the sixth stage of grief - violent vomitting.

Dude! What did you eat!!??

 Cool 

To induce that?

I ate an eyefull of the Crisis Suit lower leg joint and its clumsy sizing/positioning.
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PostSubject: Re: Miniwargaming Video   Fri Aug 15 2014, 12:44

Squidmaster wrote:
He doesn't like Dark Eldar because of their lore?

This really seemed to be a fairly poor argument to me. In my mind Dark Eldar fit in really well, almost too well compared to some other armies. I like to look at most of the 40k races as the stages of grief.
In the grim darkness, etc, anything Imperial comes under Denail. They are struggling on in absolute faith of their abilities and their Emperor. its not dark and horrible, everything is fine, OBEY!
Orks, and to a degree Tyrnaids, are the wash of Anger. Orks especially simply rage at the universe, good or bad.
The Eldar are the clear sign of bargaining. Their time is done, but they are desperately trying to cling on to whatever they can.
Depression, well, I think to a certain levels that the Imperium again, but its also the Necrons, having woken from their slumber, they find everything different and just keep drudging on in the vain attempt to put everything back as it was (whatever that hads been retconned to be this week).
DARK ELDAR, well, they are Acceptance. They've seen what the universe is and have accepted it and are simply getting on with their lives and enjoying themselves. Their empire has fallen, but they are still alive, and thats is what is important.

You want to argue that an army's lore isn't great and doesn;t really belong? Well, then we get to the Tau. The one bright and shiny stain on the gloriously dark face of 40k.
Tau, the sixth stage of grief - violent vomitting.

Well played Squidmaster. Well played sir.
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PostSubject: Re: Miniwargaming Video   Fri Aug 15 2014, 17:59

Squidmaster wrote:

DARK ELDAR, well, they are Acceptance. They've seen what the universe is and have accepted it and are simply getting on with their lives and enjoying themselves. Their empire has fallen, but they are still alive, and thats is what is important.
I would not go so far and call them Acceptance... They are still pretty pissed at about everyone ;-) and they like to show it.

But regarding Matt, I would really love to know what if he likes chaos, cause slaanesh is a part of chaos and is far worse.
We are just pure evil.

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PostSubject: Re: Miniwargaming Video   Fri Aug 15 2014, 23:30

Other factions/races commit genocide in all sorts of horrible manners and sometimes with very discriminatory intent.  The Nids are the only equal opportunist genocidal beings, IMO.  If I remember the lore properly, the DE don't really commit genocide to begin with since they don't really go to "war" very often.

That's my beef with the video.  Others do horrible things but that's okay.  Dark Eldar do horrible things differently, that's not okay. So I'm going to discriminate against them. It's rather hypocritical.
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PostSubject: Re: Miniwargaming Video   Wed Aug 20 2014, 11:36

Rikev wrote:
TBH you sound like someone talking about the Dark Eldar but not actually knowing a thing about them. Have you read their background Matt?

A lot of folks (store staff included) paint them as a one-dimensional sex cult but they go a lot deeper. The Dark Eldar are a race of comic book super-villains with a megalomania complex stretching so far into exaggeration and overblown schemes that they start to become a black comedy. Want your rival wiped out? Go out, get a black hole, put it in a box, give it to him and run away cackling. Fancy something easier? Open an inter-spacial rift above your rival's house and dump an Imperial Cruiser on his head in an apocalyptic explosion. Want to take over Commorragh? Break the sacred rules, summon a horde of daemons at your command. Now I command you to go forth and...who locked the door? I can't get out. Why is this Bloodthirster looking at me angrily? VEEEEECCCTTTT!!!!

You are missing out on some of the most amazing background the 40k universe has to offer. It is filled with political schemes, grandiose shows of power, regular civil and excessively bloodthirsty wars and all with the sub-story of a race that believes it is invincible but knows that is also undergoing a constant battle for survival that puts their very souls at risk. And they will do whatever they can do keep their souls out of desperation.

Quite a far tale from your idea they are a group of space pirates looking to get their rocks off with a whip.

As for not wanting to be taken by the Dark Eldar as prisoners...good. Working as intended then. Smile

Great post and retort.

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PostSubject: Re: Miniwargaming Video   Sat Aug 30 2014, 10:41

Wow, this must be the dumbest thing I've watched in the recent months and I say this as a MWG's Vault subscriber. Matt is starting to get on my nerves, especially with his recent trend of being unpleasant towards his opponents.

We're fine with guts, blood and bashed skulls, demons, occult sects but SEX makes us feel nervous. Hedonism is a thing born in the depths of abyss, worse than cancer. Uh.

Dark Eldar are evil, sure. But they at least feel interesting, real, with their capricious and hedonistic urges. A remnant of society so great and bored that they took depravity as a hobby. This is quite different from CSM who are basically a bunch of dudes with serious daddy issues and Tyranids, who hunger and not much else. Dark Eldar are your fairy tale villains that hide in mirrors and shadow, swoop under the cover of night and kidnap your children. But at the same time they share more with actual humans than sterile, fanatic and fascist Space Marines.

If humanity was decimated, pushed to the edge and threatened by a being that wants to eat your souls, while having technological edge over others, who do you think they would resemble the most?
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PostSubject: Re: Miniwargaming Video   Sat Aug 30 2014, 11:22

LOL. For me DE are the paragons of non-caring and selfishness. I always thought that most fantasy and sci-fi races do resemble one of humanity's sides in the extreme so it can be shown how we, humans, do interact with this side. Klingons are a picture of humanity's aggression and humans fear them and are trying to keep them calm until the point they reach their tolerance limit and then they meet it with greater aggression. Its a classic example of people's internal struggle.

DE are thus not about our perversity or relish in pain of others. That is Slaanesh. DE are survivalists at all costs... absolutely all costs. Billions of lives, suffering, pain and anguish. Whether other races or DE themselves. They just do not care a bit. About anything else but their individual self. They dont even care enough to try and find some other way to survive, hehe. :-)
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PostSubject: Re: Miniwargaming Video   Mon Sep 29 2014, 17:34

Matt has offically gone off the deep end.
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PostSubject: Re: Miniwargaming Video   Mon Sep 29 2014, 17:52

The Dark Eldar background is amongst the worst in the game. Horribly over written full of cliches and entirely unrealistic. In a society where dying is so bad, going around murdering all your fellow Deldar just makes no sense whatsoever
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