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 To be Elite, or Not to be Elite - Which would you like to see in the new Codex?

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Tounguekutter
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PostSubject: To be Elite, or Not to be Elite - Which would you like to see in the new Codex?   Tue Aug 12 2014, 17:00

As far as I've seen, most Dark Eldar armies can muster a few models more than their Craftworld kin.  This makes a lot of sense to me, because of the fluff.  With advent of 'Halfborn' D. Eldar, I could see an excuse for Dark Eldar to be surprisingly cheap.  The question I would want to explore here is do we want more expendable units.  Or would we prefer more elite units that can be relied on to hold their ground without supporting units.  Perhaps we would like a few specifically cheap units and then the rest of our units to get a power boost (which in all fairness, is usually accompanied by a points increase).  Which units do you think need a power boost and a points decrease to become worthy? (looking at you Kheradruak).  You never know - Phil Kelly (if he's doing the codex again) might read some of the posts and be inspired!

edit - If you check out my fan codex, it's obvious the direction I went in. Nearly everything got a power boost and a points increase. I don't think this is the direction GW will go, because it is more profitable to suddenly decrease the points in everything, essentially shrinking everybody's collections in terms of the size of the playable army (50 guardsmen and and a half dozen Chimeras < 50 wyches and 6 Raiders). That being said, I remain optimistic that the bulk of the units in the Dark Eldar codex will get a power boost, however slight. As for Kheradruakh, I gave him a huge power boost and several special rules which make him worthier to take. Reavers on the other hand, basically stayed the same but got are now 19 points base (I think)

Merged double post - Baron T

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I am very excited by the new 8th edition and what it has brought for Dark Eldar and the game entire.  I am always happy to talk wishlisting and fandexes in any edition from 4-on, although I have to say while I can't wait for our Dark Eldar codex to bring flavor to our fighting forces, I'm not interested in making Dark Eldar as a whole stronger.  I have written multiple Dark Eldar fan codexes (3 and a "mini-fandex" which was totally ridiculous), the latest of which (for 7th edition) can be found here.  I also created a Blood Angels 7th edition fan codex for 7th (and I'm taking ideas for a Blood Angels chapter trait to fan-rule in while my girlfriend and I wait for a full codex), and I have used the Age of Sigmar Kharadron Overlords battletome to create a 40k squat army codex complete with a bunch of Stratagems.
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Lord_Alino
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PostSubject: Re: To be Elite, or Not to be Elite - Which would you like to see in the new Codex?   Tue Aug 12 2014, 19:39

I think we should get choices between being Elite or not. (Drazhar allowing Incubi as troops cause YOLO!)

As for normal units. I think we're pretty good for the most part. (I'd love seeing blasters being allowed per 5 models in a kabalite squad though ^^ )


Last edited by Lord_Alino on Wed Aug 13 2014, 02:12; edited 1 time in total
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Tounguekutter
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PostSubject: Re: To be Elite, or Not to be Elite - Which would you like to see in the new Codex?   Tue Aug 12 2014, 21:31

I dislike to be nit-picky but by "Drescarn" you meant "Drazhar." Yeah a lot of people (myself included) would like to take Incubi as troops. At least when I'm facing Marines, Chaos Marines, or G. Knights I'd like to take them as troops. It would be a lot better to simply be able to take more special weapons, and that could help define the unit's roles. In the 3rd edition Dark Eldar codex the minimum squad size for warriors was 6 and they simply "take two of the following special weapons per squad." Basically everybody fielded a whole bunch of 6 man warriors with 2 D. Lances each. Warriors didn't have power from pain or poisoned shooting in those days and they were 8 pts. It was a different kind of Dark Eldar.

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I am very excited by the new 8th edition and what it has brought for Dark Eldar and the game entire.  I am always happy to talk wishlisting and fandexes in any edition from 4-on, although I have to say while I can't wait for our Dark Eldar codex to bring flavor to our fighting forces, I'm not interested in making Dark Eldar as a whole stronger.  I have written multiple Dark Eldar fan codexes (3 and a "mini-fandex" which was totally ridiculous), the latest of which (for 7th edition) can be found here.  I also created a Blood Angels 7th edition fan codex for 7th (and I'm taking ideas for a Blood Angels chapter trait to fan-rule in while my girlfriend and I wait for a full codex), and I have used the Age of Sigmar Kharadron Overlords battletome to create a 40k squat army codex complete with a bunch of Stratagems.
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Barking Agatha
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PostSubject: Re: To be Elite, or Not to be Elite - Which would you like to see in the new Codex?   Tue Aug 12 2014, 22:14

Tounguekutter wrote:
(looking at you Kheradruak).

I think that Kheradruakh (the Decapitator!) wins Most Likely To Be Voted Off the Codex: No model, no use, and no one likes him. Poor Keradruakh (the Decapitator!) One day in the future he may come back, with a cool model and a datasheet and rules that don't suck.

Tounguekutter wrote:
You never know - Phil Kelly (if he's doing the codex again) might read some of the posts and be inspired!

If the new codex is coming as soon as we think, it's already too late for that. And if it isn't, then... aaarrgh! How long must we wait! Bloody tau and orks and demonds have already been served! Did we forget to take a number? Is it taking so long because it's going to be so awesome? Well okay, but it better be really awesome, and not something you slapped together at the last minute!
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Lord_Alino
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PostSubject: Re: To be Elite, or Not to be Elite - Which would you like to see in the new Codex?   Wed Aug 13 2014, 02:13

lol Agatha.

Watch Keradruakh (the Decapitator!) get a model and become our next big super hq.
You'll see.
You'll all see.

Also, sorry bout my typo. I was really tired when I wrote it.
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PostSubject: Re: To be Elite, or Not to be Elite - Which would you like to see in the new Codex?   Wed Aug 13 2014, 03:12

No problem Alino

edit - Hypothetically, would anybody ever want to take the following unit:

Kabalite Guards

WS  BS  S  T  W  I  A  Ld  Sv
3     3   3  3   1  4  1  8   5+

Splinter rifle would be Strength 3 no poisoned, Character upgrade 5 points more for same stat-line but Ld 9.  Points cost - 6 points.  Night Vision and Power from Pain.  Can be put in a Raider.  Minimum squad size 6, max 20.  1 special weapon for every 7 models in the squad.

So would anybody actually take that unit?  My guess is no, we would only ever go with normal warriors.  I just want to see what other people's opinions are.

edit 2 - Sorry for the messy stat line, it looked okay before I posted.

edit 3 - I could see them being useful as a distraction unit, having them charge and take overwatch, and to hang back and hold objectives.

Merged quadruple post - Baron T

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I am very excited by the new 8th edition and what it has brought for Dark Eldar and the game entire.  I am always happy to talk wishlisting and fandexes in any edition from 4-on, although I have to say while I can't wait for our Dark Eldar codex to bring flavor to our fighting forces, I'm not interested in making Dark Eldar as a whole stronger.  I have written multiple Dark Eldar fan codexes (3 and a "mini-fandex" which was totally ridiculous), the latest of which (for 7th edition) can be found here.  I also created a Blood Angels 7th edition fan codex for 7th (and I'm taking ideas for a Blood Angels chapter trait to fan-rule in while my girlfriend and I wait for a full codex), and I have used the Age of Sigmar Kharadron Overlords battletome to create a 40k squat army codex complete with a bunch of Stratagems.
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Lord_Alino
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PostSubject: Re: To be Elite, or Not to be Elite - Which would you like to see in the new Codex?   Wed Aug 13 2014, 05:16

That unit just looks like a load of diddly.

I mean a load of it.

I'm inclined to say nobody would ever take that. Make it splinter pistols and CC weapons than maybe.
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PostSubject: Re: To be Elite, or Not to be Elite - Which would you like to see in the new Codex?   Wed Aug 13 2014, 09:40

Lord_Alino wrote:
(I'd love seeing blasters being allowed per 5 models in a kabalite squad though ^^ )

How do you mean? You can already take a blaster in a unit of five Warriors. Or do you mean a blaster per Trueborn in a squad of five?

I wouldn't take Kabalite Guards. Initiative four is a big hit, currently the only way our basic stuff even stands a chance in combat is by swinging before the enemy. I really can't see a use for the unit myself.

I'd like to see us remain elite. Giving us semi horde options just because we as a race are more numerous than Craftworlders in the fluff is not something I'd like to see, I prefer mobile, small, capable squads rather than big and slow inept ones for Dark Eldar.

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PostSubject: Re: To be Elite, or Not to be Elite - Which would you like to see in the new Codex?   Wed Aug 13 2014, 10:12

Yeah, as you've presented, I would never take Kabalite Guard.

And I REALLY don't want Incubi as Troops by any means. It takes away from the special presence if I can have an army of them, and I really think its against their whole theme.

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PostSubject: Re: To be Elite, or Not to be Elite - Which would you like to see in the new Codex?   Wed Aug 13 2014, 10:54

Squidmaster wrote:
Yeah, as you've presented, I would never take Kabalite Guard.

And I REALLY don't want Incubi as Troops by any means. It takes away from the special presence if I can have an army of them, and I really think its against their whole theme.

I feel the same about Incubi. I can see us losing troop options in the new codex if anything, not gaining them. Hellions, specifically.

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PostSubject: Re: To be Elite, or Not to be Elite - Which would you like to see in the new Codex?   Wed Aug 13 2014, 17:31

Mr Believer wrote:
Lord_Alino wrote:
(I'd love seeing blasters being allowed per 5 models in a kabalite squad though ^^ )

How do you mean? You can already take a blaster in a unit of five Warriors. Or do you mean a blaster per Trueborn in a squad of five?

What O.o WHAT O>O

-looks through codex-

You can only take 1 blaster per squad though.

I meant one per five warriors in a squad. Unless this seems broken that is.
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PostSubject: Re: To be Elite, or Not to be Elite - Which would you like to see in the new Codex?   Wed Aug 13 2014, 21:28

Yeah, I think it would make sense if a squad of 20 Kabalite Warriors could take 2 Blasters/Shredders and 2 Lances/Cannons.  The wording could be something like "if the squad size exceeds 10 models, an additional Warrior may trade his Splinter rifle for a Blaster or a Shredder."  Something like that.

edit - It could be something like. "If the squad numbers 11 models or more, then an additional Blaster or Shredder may be taken.

Sorry about the double-posting Admins! I'm trying to brake the addiction, really!

Merged double post. Once again. This is not AIM or any other instant messenger service where once you hit enter you cant edit. Here we have an edit function. Please learn to use it. - Baron T

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I am very excited by the new 8th edition and what it has brought for Dark Eldar and the game entire.  I am always happy to talk wishlisting and fandexes in any edition from 4-on, although I have to say while I can't wait for our Dark Eldar codex to bring flavor to our fighting forces, I'm not interested in making Dark Eldar as a whole stronger.  I have written multiple Dark Eldar fan codexes (3 and a "mini-fandex" which was totally ridiculous), the latest of which (for 7th edition) can be found here.  I also created a Blood Angels 7th edition fan codex for 7th (and I'm taking ideas for a Blood Angels chapter trait to fan-rule in while my girlfriend and I wait for a full codex), and I have used the Age of Sigmar Kharadron Overlords battletome to create a 40k squat army codex complete with a bunch of Stratagems.


Last edited by Tounguekutter on Wed Aug 13 2014, 21:37; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: To be Elite, or Not to be Elite - Which would you like to see in the new Codex?   Wed Aug 13 2014, 22:01

That seems better. It'd be nice if we could take 12 man squads in raiders too. Just imagine... all the Anti-tank!
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PostSubject: Re: To be Elite, or Not to be Elite - Which would you like to see in the new Codex?   Thu Aug 14 2014, 09:09

Lord_Alino wrote:
I meant one per five warriors in a squad. Unless this seems broken that is.

Ah, I see. That would then let you take two blasters and a dark lance, so might be a bit overpowered. If they were in a Raider they'd be getting three lance shots off at full ballistic skill after moving 6", or four if they sit still. That's quite a lot of anti tank from one ten strong troops choice!

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PostSubject: Re: To be Elite, or Not to be Elite - Which would you like to see in the new Codex?   Thu Aug 14 2014, 12:59

You're right O.o

I think I'll agree with Kutter though. 1 per 10 models seems legit. (Or 1 regular, and 2 if the troop exceeds 11)
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PostSubject: Re: To be Elite, or Not to be Elite - Which would you like to see in the new Codex?   Thu Aug 14 2014, 14:15

I concur that one per 10 seems like a good idea.
It makes sense for a mobile army to actually be effective when its on the move. That's one of the reasons I really like the Splinter Cannon's two fire modes. So being able to take twqo assault weapons insteadof a heavy would be great.

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PostSubject: Re: To be Elite, or Not to be Elite - Which would you like to see in the new Codex?   Thu Aug 14 2014, 15:33

I think it'd be alot more efficient to bring 2 blasters and a Splinter Cannon in a squad. Not entirely over powered either considered the points for it (40 unless they're changed)
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PostSubject: Re: To be Elite, or Not to be Elite - Which would you like to see in the new Codex?   Sun Aug 17 2014, 14:27

Tounguekutter wrote:
No problem Alino

edit - Hypothetically, would anybody ever want to take the following unit:

Kabalite Guards

WS  BS  S  T  W  I  A  Ld  Sv
3     3   3  3   1  4  1  8   5+

Splinter rifle would be Strength 3 no poisoned, Character upgrade 5 points more for same stat-line but Ld 9.  Points cost - 6 points.  Night Vision and Power from Pain.  Can be put in a Raider.  Minimum squad size 6, max 20.  1 special weapon for every 7 models in the squad.

So would anybody actually take that unit?  My guess is no, we would only ever go with normal warriors.  I just want to see what other people's opinions are.

edit 2 - Sorry for the messy stat line, it looked okay before I posted.

edit 3 - I could see them being useful as a distraction unit, having them charge and take overwatch, and to hang back and hold objectives.

Merged quadruple post - Baron T

So...you have given Dark Eldar access to Guardmen at +1 ld. This isn't what i'd imagine Dark Eldar are about. Sure, Dark Eldar may be more numerous then Eldar but you don't see everyday Eldar on the Battle Field. A real space raid would be an expensive thing, you have to feed every mouth and pay every guy, why would the Archon's take mouths that where less effective then a Kabalite Warrior. You are also making a little fluff boo-boo. Dark Eldar are meant to be superior to CWE in combat, due to the day to day life of Commaragh, yet you'd have these trained Kabalites (At any rate, they are above the standard rabble due to military training) be less skilled then Guardians, who live lives of poetry and pottery? If you want to make a cheap Eldar unit, you should at least use the Guardian Stat-line, because that represents Eldar with little training, which would be fit for the average ganger.
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PostSubject: Re: To be Elite, or Not to be Elite - Which would you like to see in the new Codex?   Sun Aug 17 2014, 15:09

alexwellace wrote:
Tounguekutter wrote:
No problem Alino

edit - Hypothetically, would anybody ever want to take the following unit:

Kabalite Guards

WS  BS  S  T  W  I  A  Ld  Sv
3     3   3  3   1  4  1  8   5+

Splinter rifle would be Strength 3 no poisoned, Character upgrade 5 points more for same stat-line but Ld 9.  Points cost - 6 points.  Night Vision and Power from Pain.  Can be put in a Raider.  Minimum squad size 6, max 20.  1 special weapon for every 7 models in the squad.

So would anybody actually take that unit?  My guess is no, we would only ever go with normal warriors.  I just want to see what other people's opinions are.

edit 2 - Sorry for the messy stat line, it looked okay before I posted.

edit 3 - I could see them being useful as a distraction unit, having them charge and take overwatch, and to hang back and hold objectives.

Merged quadruple post - Baron T

So...you have given Dark Eldar access to Guardmen at +1 ld. This isn't what i'd imagine Dark Eldar are about. Sure, Dark Eldar may be more numerous then Eldar but you don't see everyday Eldar on the Battle Field. A real space raid would be an expensive thing, you have to feed every mouth and pay every guy, why would the Archon's take mouths that where less effective then a Kabalite Warrior. You are also making a little fluff boo-boo. Dark Eldar are meant to be superior to CWE in combat, due to the day to day life of Commaragh, yet you'd have these trained Kabalites (At any rate, they are above the standard rabble due to military training) be less skilled then Guardians, who live lives of poetry and pottery? If you want to make a cheap Eldar unit, you should at least use the Guardian Stat-line, because that represents Eldar with little training, which would be fit for the average ganger.  

You make alot of valid points.

Plus you made me laugh.

I do agree however that Dark Eldar shouldn't have these kinds of units (Just looked at the Guardsmen statline.)
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PostSubject: Re: To be Elite, or Not to be Elite - Which would you like to see in the new Codex?   Sat Aug 30 2014, 15:54

I'd think that in order to stress the difference between CWE and DE we could definitely see more action for our basic soldiers.

They don't need points' decrease though, 8 is already the lowest price one can charge for basic Eldar statline, they need just more power in order to stay competitive in the current environment.
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PostSubject: Re: To be Elite, or Not to be Elite - Which would you like to see in the new Codex?   Wed Sep 03 2014, 23:54

We'll get a little more elite I think. (like 10 pts per Warrior instead of 9)
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PostSubject: Re: To be Elite, or Not to be Elite - Which would you like to see in the new Codex?   Thu Sep 04 2014, 01:18

For what? They've got a rifle which can kill monsters. Whoah. Eldar Guardians got rending stormbolters, same statline, and they cost 1pt less.
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PostSubject: Re: To be Elite, or Not to be Elite - Which would you like to see in the new Codex?   Thu Sep 04 2014, 01:27

Our rifles rock! lol.

Granted if they were S4 that'd be awesomeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
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