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 I need tips on how to lose :/

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The Red King
Hekatrix
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PostSubject: I need tips on how to lose :/   Fri Jul 25 2014, 17:10

I've tried toning down my lists a little, I bring talos and incubi and the avatar, rangers, even shining spears, but I consistently beat my friends in our little group and I'm afraid I'm going to chase them out of the hobby.

Any advice? I like to win and I don't know how to have fun losing on purpose but it's more important to me that I don't ruin the game for my friends.
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Dethdispenser
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PostSubject: Re: I need tips on how to lose :/   Fri Jul 25 2014, 17:22

STOP FLOOPING THE PIG:

Foot Slogging Warriors and Wyches. Maybe a WebWay Portal to look like you are "testing" things out. Mandrakes. Take Kheradruak ? So many ways to lose and look like you are testing Smile
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The Red King
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PostSubject: Re: I need tips on how to lose :/   Fri Jul 25 2014, 17:41

Hmmm maybe a webway list could work yeah. Especially if I don't take allied eldar for the 2+ reserve rolls lol.

Sadly no mandrakes, I mean that lol it makes me sad XD

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Unorthodoxy
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PostSubject: Re: I need tips on how to lose :/   Fri Jul 25 2014, 20:55

Well if you're actually SERIOUS about the project, then i suggest you flip armies. Play a game and then play with the opponents army. They will learn your army a lot better that way.

In fact play the first game flipped. Help them use your army to its potential. Dont overwhelm them with advice but be absolutely honest when they ask you things. You will enjoy the game a lot more when your opponents send that adrenalin through you that says "uh oh... I think this guy might beat me". Your A Game wont ever be on display til then. Your sportsmanship really wont either.

So just say "yo dude. I'd REALLY like to try your army out. Do you mind if we play the other way round this time so i can do something different".

Its educational for you also...

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The Red King
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PostSubject: Re: I need tips on how to lose :/   Fri Jul 25 2014, 21:10

That sounds like a great idea. Off topic i hope this post doesn't make me look like an egotistical jerk lol

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Unorthodoxy
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PostSubject: Re: I need tips on how to lose :/   Fri Jul 25 2014, 23:14

It does make you look that way. But that's okay. If you can back it up, then it's just truth.

If you CARE about your opponents (and I doubt you'd be asking this question if you didn't), I strongly suggest giving them more than just B lists. Give them your A list to try out. They'll learn a lot. You'll give them good advice on their lists and they will SEE why you're saying it when they see it played against them.

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The Red King
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PostSubject: Re: I need tips on how to lose :/   Fri Jul 25 2014, 23:16

I will give it a shot. I don't want to Chase them off from the hobby.

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Nightwolf
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PostSubject: Re: I need tips on how to lose :/   Sat Jul 26 2014, 05:17

Out of curiosity. Do you play any pure Dark Eldar lists or do you always run Eldar/Dark Eldar allies? If you usually run allies you could try running pure Dark Eldar. I find that running a list of only True-kin is more challenging.
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PostSubject: Re: I need tips on how to lose :/   Sat Jul 26 2014, 06:01

I have this exact same problem!

Some of my regular opponents are smart guys but do not have the experience which means their threat identification and target priority is not great. I do not want to smash them every game as it might chase them off and make me feel like a noob bashing SOB.

Ask them what units in your army they think are really powerful and then swap them for something else. My guys said the ravagers, trueborn, venoms and nightshields. So I swaped my 3 ravagers for 2 talos and a razorwing . I took 2 venoms instead of 6 and dropped the nightshields and trueborn.

The rest of this army is 2 haywire wyches (in the venoms), reavers, BMs, scourges, 30 warriors on foot behind an ADL, CC Archon with grots in a raider and 3 empty raiders.

I also take a CC list with an Archon with Incubi, Heam with Grots, 2 units of 10 wracks all in raiders and BMs, reavers, wyches, talos and razorwing.

Both lists have almost no ranged AT and the second focuses totally on CC. This WILL test your skills!

The result are the games are a lot closer which makes my opponents happy and I got to try out new units and armies which are a blast to play with and also makes me a better general.

Everybody wins!


Last edited by Painjunky on Sun Jul 27 2014, 11:38; edited 1 time in total
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The Red King
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PostSubject: Re: I need tips on how to lose :/   Sat Jul 26 2014, 21:11

I appreciate all the comments. I will try some of that out.

And yes I play DE only occasionally, and I don't bring wave serpents in my allies though I admit to owning a WK :/ I didn't know when I bought it lol

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Trystis
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PostSubject: Re: I need tips on how to lose :/   Sun Jul 27 2014, 03:21

I also recommend running a pure list. Eldar allies can be fun, but it can make it harder on your opponents. Some other options would be to create some scenarios that are balanced in their favor slightly.
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The Red King
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PostSubject: Re: I need tips on how to lose :/   Sun Jul 27 2014, 15:49

Hmmm scenarios seem like a good idea, does anyone have any suggestions on that front?

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PostSubject: Re: I need tips on how to lose :/   Sun Jul 27 2014, 19:41

personally I LOVE Maelstrom missions. But there is a whole book full of missions GW put out. Also the Codexc supplements have EXCELLENT missions in them, called Alter of War missions. They also have the hiostorical battle missions which are fun.

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Lord_Alino
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PostSubject: Re: I need tips on how to lose :/   Thu Jul 31 2014, 20:06

I know how to lose! 3 squads of full Mandrakes with that one Mandrake HQ. Then Foot Slog a bunch of Wyches with Haywires. XD
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PostSubject: Re: I need tips on how to lose :/   Thu Jul 31 2014, 20:23

Footslogging kabalite squads with shredders, mandrakes, a footslogging maxed squad of fully upgraded grotesques with no escort, three units of five beastmasters with no beasts, three cronos parasite engines with spirit probes hurtling forward, all led by an archon armed with ghostplate, a blast pistol and a djinn blade!

Fear the Kabal of The Palmed Face!


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PostSubject: Re: I need tips on how to lose :/   Fri Aug 01 2014, 17:48

So did this advice get used yet?

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PostSubject: Re: I need tips on how to lose :/   Fri Aug 01 2014, 20:48

Great advice so far. I would consider yourself fortunate to be in an environment where you pretty much have the whole playbook to work with. Ultra competitive scenes tend to eliminate most of the options from dexs like ours.

I believe most groups have a couple stand out players but to me it is their obligation to help the others get up to speed, otherwise you will lose those players.
List building exercises are great for this, as is evaluating paths to victory each turn.. yours and his. I've had people get ready to shoot my venoms when my wraithknight is holding the relic and I have 2 secondary objectives. Sometimes simple things aren't always readily apparent to others. I pointed out that line of play wouldn't effect  my position and we evaluated, together the situation..basically his decision tree was down to one branch. My opponent changed his strategy and decided to take the risky route focusing down the wk with what he had left, and it paid off. He won with a single nurgling in cover on 1 wound lol. This is pretty common for me to do, pointing out my weaknesses and strong plays, unless I'm up against someone I feel will push my game without any help. I've found my group overall has grown in skill, our lists have evolved, and our experience is more enjoyable.

Tldr you don't need to learn how to lose. You need to help your friends beat you.
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The Red King
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PostSubject: Re: I need tips on how to lose :/   Mon Aug 04 2014, 09:50

Sorry. None of my friends have agreed to a game lately. Not even the "I play your army" game. And the hard part is that my most active opponent is 100% opposed to any criticism constructive or otherwise. He's kind of a hostile dude which I hope explains my post title a little better. I'm not some game god but open discourse is not really viable with him :/

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PostSubject: Re: I need tips on how to lose :/   Wed Sep 24 2014, 09:40

What do your friends play with out of interest? If you know what they are using and "themes" of their armies perhaps you could cater for that.
I had similar thoughts when I got to grips with my dark eldar, my most frequent opponents are all experienced players and we have great close battles now. But at the start they simply couldn't cope with the force that dark eldar can hit with. So to help them I tried to play to their strengths and exploit my weaknesses. They soon learnt what works and it makes it more fun. For example a lascannon is great to take down a venom, but bolter fire and heavy bolters work better. Once they learnt that the best way to deal with dark eldar vehicles is with volume of fire and getting in close to cancel the range / night shield advantage its much closer.

I guess the point in trying to make is that you shouldn't aim to lose, but rather show your opponents the weaknesses you have and how to exploit it. Do something daft then say I shouldn't have done that. Gives them hints and tricks without coming across as patronizing. If they have any brains they should see what worked well, mention it, "oh that so and so unit when it got to that certain point really tore me up" and perhaps they will build on it?

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PostSubject: Re: I need tips on how to lose :/   Wed Sep 24 2014, 10:06

Put mandrakes in your list, grab raiders with kabalit warriors, play dumb, help your friends to win. Explain them that they have tons of tactics when and how to use their units. They won't quit if you show them what actually makes warhammer so badass as wargame.

@The Red King wrote:
Sorry. None of my friends have agreed to a game lately. Not even the "I play your army" game. And the hard part is that my most active opponent is 100% opposed to any criticism constructive or otherwise. He's kind of a hostile dude which I hope explains my post title a little better. I'm not some game god but open discourse is not really viable with him :/

Ummm. What? Where is the spirit of challenge? I really don't understand this guys. If you are new to complex rule system like warhammer you'll actualy lose your first games. i lost 15 games in a row with my high elves army back in 2004 when i was 14 yo. So what? I didn't quit. If you like BRILLIANT GW MINIS or lore or you want to win you won't quit. Can you explain the situation coz this sounds really weird. Maybe they don't like some of your actions during the game (for e.g. you didn't forgive less than 0.5 inch in shooting phase)?
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PostSubject: Re: I need tips on how to lose :/   Wed Sep 24 2014, 12:29

I've had the same issue - I tend to water my army down a little and if it means throwing in 5 Mandrakes for the sake of their models, chucking in a Talos then so be it.

I also tend to play more loose, more aggressively but in a way that leaves me a lot more open, such as a Reaver bladevane move that I'd normally never make that leaves me vulnerable.

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