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 Get ready for the nerfhammer!

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Mr Believer
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PostSubject: Re: Get ready for the nerfhammer!   Tue Sep 30 2014, 14:38

Klaivex Charondyr wrote:
You will never get into the rear to bring your HoW attacks. Serpent is as fast as you and ignores your cover save.
The HoW thing is horrid. 6 S4 + 2D6 S6 How hits with rending is clearly inferior to 6D3 S4 + 2D6 S6 without getting in danger to enter melee with that amazing 5+ armor.

Wave Serpents are almost as fast as Reavers, that's true. But if they're running away from Reavers, they're not firing off their Serpent Shields at them, so that becomes less of a worry. If they turn to face the Reavers that have managed to get behind them, they're shaking their booty at the rest of your army, unless they've got that spinning upgrade. Vectored engines? I don't really mind the changes to Reavers that much. I generally only got one, maybe two bladevane attacks in with them anyway as I started them in reserve. I often ended up charging small units with them too, so I'm rather looking forward to all these rending hits. Especially as I did actually equip one of them with caltrops Very Happy
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Klaivex Charondyr
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PostSubject: Re: Get ready for the nerfhammer!   Tue Sep 30 2014, 15:04

The probelm here is you are acting like there is only a single serpent. Target priority is a thing even for CWE and if anything threatens the rear of another serpent one of his 3 or 4 brothers will shoot his 60" waves of coverignorage at them.
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Mr Believer
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PostSubject: Re: Get ready for the nerfhammer!   Tue Sep 30 2014, 15:19

Klaivex Charondyr wrote:
The probelm here is you are acting like there is only a single serpent. Target priority is a thing even for CWE and if anything threatens the rear of another serpent one of his 3 or 4 brothers will shoot his 60" waves of coverignorage at them.

Yeah, but that's the problem with the internet vacuum in a nutshell really. This example also assumes you don't have more than one squad of Reavers doing their zoomy zoomy thing. Or something else pelting up the board ready to boot a Wave Serpent in the bum. The proof will be in the pudding, or rather in the first batreps.

Want pudding now.
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novastar
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PostSubject: Re: Get ready for the nerfhammer!   Tue Sep 30 2014, 15:27

also this new version of Bladevanes sucks due to loseing models to overwatch, and failed charges means no hits at all. Im sorry but if you do not see this as a nerf then you really do not understand the game mechanics
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Aeterna
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PostSubject: Re: Get ready for the nerfhammer!   Tue Sep 30 2014, 15:35

You can take jinks on the overwatch by my understanding.

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Mr Believer
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PostSubject: Re: Get ready for the nerfhammer!   Tue Sep 30 2014, 15:45

novastar wrote:
also this new version of Bladevanes sucks due to loseing models to overwatch, and failed charges means no hits at all. Im sorry but if you do not see this as a nerf then you really do not understand the game mechanics

I'd say there's a difference between remaining upbeat, taking the rough with the smooth and plain not understanding the game mechanics. It doesn't particularly nerf the way I was using them - I can still boost from reserve over any units and all terrain into a position of opportunity, melt a tank, jump back into cover then do it again. The loss of an ability that kills a small amount of Space Marines a turn (average 2 hits per Reaver, average ten wounds, average 3.3 dead marines) doesn't particularly concern me, but I can understand why it might bother people who ran Reavers cheaper than I do.

You can also jink against overwatch, with Reavers getting a 3+ due to Skilled Rider (if that remains).
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PostSubject: Re: Get ready for the nerfhammer!   Tue Sep 30 2014, 16:33

4d3 strength 4 hits and 2d6 strength 6 hits was killing more then 3 marines and now of your caltrop guys don't make it into base they can't use their HoW ability and if they are in the frontline a can Beatles as overwatch casualties
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Mr Believer
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PostSubject: Re: Get ready for the nerfhammer!   Tue Sep 30 2014, 17:14

novastar wrote:
4d3 strength 4 hits and 2d6 strength 6 hits was killing more then 3 marines and now of your caltrop guys don't make it into base they can't use their HoW ability  and if they are in the frontline a can Beatles as overwatch casualties

I don't know of that many people who actually used caltrops. Most just seemed to run them with heat lances or blasters, and maybe get a champion with Venom Blade. How useful caltrops will be now remains to be seen, but I always like seeing something get rending Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Get ready for the nerfhammer!   Tue Sep 30 2014, 17:17

I ran bladevanes and caltrops cos it was fun.

Gutted its gone.
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PostSubject: Re: Get ready for the nerfhammer!   Tue Sep 30 2014, 17:25

Bladevane especially with caltrops was a great tactics against flying MCs and invisible units
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Grub
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PostSubject: Re: Get ready for the nerfhammer!   Tue Sep 30 2014, 18:13

One of my greatest pleasures was running 12 reavers in two squads of 6, caltrops and a single heat lance for emergencies. Then bladevaining blobs of IG, Tau, or Orks etc. Causes panic even if it might not be super effective. All if a sudden they have 12 bikers in the back field, with the potential to hit the rear armour of tanks if they leave them. Yea you have to jink them which makes shooting pointless ( hence why bladevanes were so good). They would probably get stomped, but after causing a nice distraction and allowing everything else to reach a Nice position and start dominating.

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Mr Believer
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PostSubject: Re: Get ready for the nerfhammer!   Tue Sep 30 2014, 18:21

Bladevaning flying MCs wasn't an option until seventh and the revised FAQ though, so that's losing something we didn't even get to do for that long anyway. It doesn't feel like too much of a hit. Yeah, it would be useful against invisible stuff, I'll concede that. There's always the chance they won't get Invisibility though, let's all be thankful that GW were sensible and didn't make it a primaris. Let's also be thankful they didn't do powers like they do magic, and make everyone have different spells. Because then Invisibility would be guaranteed, every time.

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novastar
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PostSubject: Re: Get ready for the nerfhammer!   Tue Sep 30 2014, 18:25

yes bladevane got buffed alot in 7th, but how it works 'now" will still not be as good as the 5th ed incarnation of it
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Mr Believer
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PostSubject: Re: Get ready for the nerfhammer!   Tue Sep 30 2014, 18:35

Yeah, that's probably true, depending how you equipped the squad (max caltrops making them potentially quite destructive), but I don't think they'll be a bad unit as such. Just... different. Of the two, I prefer the playstyle the old one lent itself to, but I can see the new one being useful too. They have a little more potential to stomp power armoured face in an assault now Very Happy I know assault isn't a great place for them to be, but they have the luxury of picking their targets over the space of two turns maximum on a standard sized board, so they could be useful for finishing off a squad that's already weakened, or ramming stuff off an objective late game. They'll still be a fun unit to use, they just won't get those unstoppable few free kills anymore.

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PostSubject: Re: Get ready for the nerfhammer!   Tue Sep 30 2014, 18:43

it would be super awesome if we got both options lol
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Mr Believer
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PostSubject: Re: Get ready for the nerfhammer!   Tue Sep 30 2014, 18:55

Yeah, but then that'd be having your cake, eating it, throwing cake at everyone else and stealing the dish while they're all busy wiping cake out of their eyes.

Agreed, old style bladevaning plus rending HOW would be awesome...

House rule? Twisted Evil

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PostSubject: Re: Get ready for the nerfhammer!   Tue Sep 30 2014, 19:27

House Rule seconded and inacted, you're welcome Dark City patrons pirat
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PostSubject: Re: Get ready for the nerfhammer!   Tue Sep 30 2014, 23:35

And now the icing on the cake, confirmation that Vect, the supreme overlord  is  gone.
And we now have the first codex in 6th, 6.5, 7th whatever you want to call it  without a Lord of War. So thank you GW

I guess he might turn up in the money grabbing suppliment.
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PostSubject: Re: Get ready for the nerfhammer!   Wed Oct 01 2014, 00:31

We are in 7th edition, GW even calls it 7th in their FAQs
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PostSubject: Re: Get ready for the nerfhammer!   Wed Oct 01 2014, 03:06

Klaivex Charondyr wrote:
PainReaver wrote:
novastar wrote:
1 HoW if the model gets into base contact on the charge or D3 Hits if I zoom through the models, ya even with the rumored rending the new bladevane sucks compared to the old version

You buy caltrops. Problem solved. And with Caltrops you can go flip a Wave Serpent. I'd rather have that. We had enough problems taking out transports or MBTs.

You will never get into the rear to bring your HoW attacks. Serpent is as fast as you and ignores your cover save.
The HoW thing is horrid. 6 S4 + 2D6 S6 How hits with rending is clearly inferior to 6D3 S4 + 2D6 S6 without getting in danger to enter melee with that amazing 5+ armor.

Attacks against vehicles at any side are resolved against rear armor. You have an overwatch of 3+.
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Klaivex Charondyr
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PostSubject: Re: Get ready for the nerfhammer!   Wed Oct 01 2014, 03:30

PainReaver wrote:
Klaivex Charondyr wrote:
PainReaver wrote:
novastar wrote:
1 HoW if the model gets into base contact on the charge or D3 Hits if I zoom through the models, ya even with the rumored rending the new bladevane sucks compared to the old version

You buy caltrops. Problem solved. And with Caltrops you can go flip a Wave Serpent. I'd rather have that. We had enough problems taking out transports or MBTs.

You will never get into the rear to bring your HoW attacks. Serpent is as fast as you and ignores your cover save.
The HoW thing is horrid. 6 S4 + 2D6 S6 How hits with rending is clearly inferior to 6D3 S4 + 2D6 S6 without getting in danger to enter melee with that amazing 5+ armor.

Attacks against vehicles at any side are resolved against rear armor. You have an overwatch of 3+.

Ah I see your problem. You dont know the HoW rules.

1) HOW:
If a model with this special rule charges a building or vehicle, the hit is resolved against the Armour Value of the facing the charging model is touching.

2) (I guess you mean cover and not overwatch) Cover:
Models do not get cover saves against any Wounds suffered from close combat attacks
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PostSubject: Re: Get ready for the nerfhammer!   Wed Oct 01 2014, 03:40

darthken239 wrote:
And now the icing on the cake, confirmation that Vect, the supreme overlord  is  gone.
And we now have the first codex in 6th, 6.5, 7th whatever you want to call it  without a Lord of War. So  thank you GW

I guess he might turn up in the money grabbing suppliment.

I am sad that there is no new model for him yet and it would have been cool, if he had been in the new codex but if he would have been a regular LOW then he could have been for each and every kabal and this is where I am most happy about. Yes he is our supreme overlord and I'm pretty sure he is still ruling the dark city as firm as ever, but he would only go to war as LOW of the Black Heart. There would be no reason for him to join someone else's kabal.
That is why I'm OK with a Vect supplement.

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PostSubject: Re: Get ready for the nerfhammer!   Wed Oct 01 2014, 04:40

Klaivex Charondyr wrote:
PainReaver wrote:
Klaivex Charondyr wrote:
PainReaver wrote:
novastar wrote:
1 HoW if the model gets into base contact on the charge or D3 Hits if I zoom through the models, ya even with the rumored rending the new bladevane sucks compared to the old version

You buy caltrops. Problem solved. And with Caltrops you can go flip a Wave Serpent. I'd rather have that. We had enough problems taking out transports or MBTs.

You will never get into the rear to bring your HoW attacks. Serpent is as fast as you and ignores your cover save.
The HoW thing is horrid. 6 S4 + 2D6 S6 How hits with rending is clearly inferior to 6D3 S4 + 2D6 S6 without getting in danger to enter melee with that amazing 5+ armor.

Attacks against vehicles at any side are resolved against rear armor. You have an overwatch of 3+.

Ah I see your problem. You dont know the HoW rules.

1) HOW:
If a model with this special rule charges a building or vehicle, the hit is resolved against the Armour Value of the facing the charging model is touching.

2) (I guess you mean cover and not overwatch) Cover:
Models do not get cover saves against any Wounds suffered from close combat attacks

Got my rules wrong, for sure.

Well, now I'll just have to find ways to get to the rear of a vehicle. Or simply target transports or something like that.
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notts
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PostSubject: Re: Get ready for the nerfhammer!   Wed Oct 01 2014, 08:00

Wyches stay at 10 points.

NERFFFF HAMMMEEERRRR on a non OP unit.

GG GW.
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PostSubject: Re: Get ready for the nerfhammer!   Wed Oct 01 2014, 08:04

Meet our new codex author...


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