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Grub
Wych
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PostSubject: Re: Get ready for the nerfhammer!   Tue Sep 30 2014, 09:53

You never know. Perhaps having horde quality units at Elite unit prices will be great Razz

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Mr Believer
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PostSubject: Re: Get ready for the nerfhammer!   Tue Sep 30 2014, 09:55

@notts wrote:
Where are the rules rumours being posted?

There is a separate thread discussing the new codex and all the rumours. But it got locked because we couldn't behave Embarassed
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Cavash
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PostSubject: Re: Get ready for the nerfhammer!   Tue Sep 30 2014, 10:08

I recommend use of this thread for constructive discussion of any rumours: http://www.thedarkcity.net/t10003-the-new-supremacy

Above all, the Dark City must endure. The Eldarith Ynneas will thrive no matter what is thrown at us.

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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Get ready for the nerfhammer!   Tue Sep 30 2014, 10:14

@darthken239 wrote:
awesome.  you now need two  talos's to be as effective as they used to be. Our really cool signature reaver attacks... gone. The voidraven now AV 10 all round. Unless our troops can shoot from raider's moving 12".. meh.

This is the final nail in the coffin for me.  Over 20 years of playing GW games in one form or another to come down to this.  "I think it's time we see other gaming companies.  It's not me it's YOU."  "Ive been seeing spartan games for several months now."  Maybe instead of spending millions on lawsuits you lose, you could have spent the money on Making the awesome special character models for the armies.

I've been thinking along similar lines. I already have a nid army for sale and, if the rumours about the DE book are true, I'll soon have a DE army for sale too. Perhaps I'll see if my friends can be persuaded to try Warmachine.

I'll probably keep my themed IG, since they're the only army I have any fun with these days, but any new models will be bought from other companies.
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Klaivex Charondyr
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PostSubject: Re: Get ready for the nerfhammer!   Tue Sep 30 2014, 11:02

A few bits more from my source, take as much Salt as you seem fit:

- Also no HWG on Bloodbrides, just the Siren
- Points of Archon and Succubus are very close to each other
- Hellion Grappling Hook probably gone (could not find it)
- Not quite sure if Klaivex Abilities are still there (he will look it up again)
- Scourges come probably always with 4 special weapons not depending on size (will also look it up again to confirm)
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Get ready for the nerfhammer!   Tue Sep 30 2014, 11:06

@Klaivex Charondyr wrote:

- Scourges come probably always with 4 special weapons not depending on size (will also look it up again to confirm)

I look forward to never, ever seeing 10-man scourge squads. tongue
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Mr Believer
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PostSubject: Re: Get ready for the nerfhammer!   Tue Sep 30 2014, 11:13

@Klaivex Charondyr wrote:
Scourges come probably always with 4 special weapons not depending on size (will also look it up again to confirm)

That makes up for everything else in that list.

Fly, my hawk men! Fly!
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darthken239
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PostSubject: Re: Get ready for the nerfhammer!   Tue Sep 30 2014, 11:27

an also for those that bought the cool looking WWP when it was released, well you can toss that in the every growing pile of GW crap
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notts
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PostSubject: Re: Get ready for the nerfhammer!   Tue Sep 30 2014, 12:05

Scourge buff is potentially nice. can they take a wwp? might make a very expensive but useful unit.
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notts
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PostSubject: Re: Get ready for the nerfhammer!   Tue Sep 30 2014, 12:34

Anyone seen rumours on twin linking the razorwings lances? Seems to me most other flyers get twin linked weapons, and it would help it a lot in it’s role as our only AA. I doubt it, though.
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Mr Believer
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PostSubject: Re: Get ready for the nerfhammer!   Tue Sep 30 2014, 12:49

@notts wrote:
Anyone seen rumours on twin linking the razorwings lances? Seems to me most other flyers get twin linked weapons, and it would help it a lot in it’s role as our only AA. I doubt it, though.

I've seen nothing about it so far, and doubt it'll happen. Personally I'm fine with it being our only AA, but then I rarely face more than one or two flyers or FMCs. Aircraft don't scare me that much in general.
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notts
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PostSubject: Re: Get ready for the nerfhammer!   Tue Sep 30 2014, 12:50

Necron Croissants and Vendetta's still crush me.
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HokutoAndy
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PostSubject: Re: Get ready for the nerfhammer!   Tue Sep 30 2014, 13:16

6 fast attack slots in that new formation is another rumor. So imagine 30 scourges with 24 haywire blasters swooping in heheh.

*as for how a bunch of t3 4+sv infantry survive the salvo of return fire on the opponent'sturn, I dunno...
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Mr Believer
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PostSubject: Re: Get ready for the nerfhammer!   Tue Sep 30 2014, 13:17

Two of my regular opponents have Vendettas, and one has a pair of them. It's probably just their bad luck, but those things couldn't hit the floor if they fell on it! The fact that they can only hit one thing each a turn, can no longer outflank, have ballistic skill 3 and are essentially a waste of lascannon shots firing at any of our stuff doesn't scare me that much. The spammability of them is pretty nasty though, I think squadrons are where it's at for them. Don't have any experience against the Necron ones, but I have seen them in action and they can be pretty brutal. What worries me the most about both Necron and Guard flyers is their ability to deposit troops. I have lost much more stuff to flamer toting, grav chute guardsmen than I have to lascannon fire.

To return to the original post (a shocker for me, I know - might change my name to Mr Deviation!), when I was talking to a GW employee the other day he was talking about how brutal Dark Eldar are, and said how they were "already a really good army." Whilst I agree they can win games, things have changed so much around them that certain units have become unusable (and certain ones were unusable in the first place). The toolkit is depleted somewhat. Whether or not GW as a whole see it the same way as that one member of staff, we can't say. But Dark Eldar do certain things that nobody else does, so against certain armies or builds, they can be absolutely brutal. I don't think we're being nerfed, just being shifted, perhaps so those certain things are less pronounced. I still think we'll be an army that requires finesse and skill to play, and will be just as rewarding when it all comes together. If that puts us at the bottom of the pile in terms of perceived level of competitiveness, good. That means they won't be expecting their imminent destruction Twisted Evil

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Klaivex Charondyr
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PostSubject: Re: Get ready for the nerfhammer!   Tue Sep 30 2014, 13:31

Quote :
when I was talking to a GW employee the other day he was talking about how brutal Dark Eldar are, and said how they were "already a really good army."

Chances are that he wants to sell stuff. Try to ask how good pyrovores are and you will probably get the same answer.
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Mr Believer
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PostSubject: Re: Get ready for the nerfhammer!   Tue Sep 30 2014, 13:40

@Klaivex Charondyr wrote:
Chances are that he wants to sell stuff. Try to ask how good pyrovores are and you will probably get the same answer.

I generally find they give quite an honest opinion about stuff - he doesn't need to sell me Dark Eldar, I already have them. Whilst they don't tell you things are downright bad, I have had them trying to save me money before by suggesting cost effective conversions and proxying as options, so they aren't all bad Smile Admittedly, one of them did suggest buying four boxes of Hellions after I said I'd like to try a big squad some day, but he's only doing his job. If I was a mystery shopper for GW, he'd have scored pretty highly!
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Darklight
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PostSubject: Re: Get ready for the nerfhammer!   Tue Sep 30 2014, 13:40

@Mr Believer wrote:
I still think we'll be an army that requires finesse and skill to play, and will be just as rewarding when it all comes together. If that puts us at the bottom of the pile in terms of perceived level of competitiveness, good. That means they won't be expecting their imminent destruction Twisted Evil

To be honest I have never felt Dark Eldar is an army that needs finesse or skill to play, I have found it rather one of the more "easy" to play. Then again i have only played 3 armys my last 15 years. But I find both Eldar and Chaos Daemons more difficult to play, specially teh latter.

And then I imagine someone bringing up Serpent spam, but that is just about as hard as playing venomspam really. For me it has been footdar.

Anway, long of discussion, even tho I did not like changes when I first read them, I kinda like them now afterwards, its rather the loosing SC that sucks. I think we are more of an "alphastrike" army if these are correct, because now our main strike round will be turn 2 when we get in the reserves in Razorwing, WWP unit, Scourges and ofcourse you will have the bastion with coms to make sure that happens, and then why not bring a hatch with a CC unit aswell.

I think there will be more intresting builds now than there was before.

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Mr Believer
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PostSubject: Re: Get ready for the nerfhammer!   Tue Sep 30 2014, 13:50

@Darklight wrote:
I think there will be more intresting builds now than there was before.

I can't wait to see what our skillful community come up with, we should see lots of different approaches to list building and tactics. I'm almost as excited about what other people will create as I am about what I will!

Also, and of particular note, I want to see Mush run 60 Reavers. He's joked about it, now he has to do it Wink
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Darklight
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PostSubject: Re: Get ready for the nerfhammer!   Tue Sep 30 2014, 13:53

@Mr Believer wrote:
@Darklight wrote:
I think there will be more intresting builds now than there was before.

I can't wait to see what our skillful community come up with, we should see lots of different approaches to list building and tactics. I'm almost as excited about what other people will create as I am about what I will!

Also, and of particular note, I want to see Mush run 60 Reavers. He's joked about it, now he has to do it Wink

Hehe yea, I hope he makes us a good battrep with it.

I myself will try and create a cheesy as frak list this saturday, because the national "championship" for 40K is played the week after and lists need to be sent in by saturday. So I hope I can find something that I can bring that are quite nasty Smile

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notts
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PostSubject: Re: Get ready for the nerfhammer!   Tue Sep 30 2014, 17:05

@Mr Believer wrote:
@Darklight wrote:
I think there will be more intresting builds now than there was before.

I can't wait to see what our skillful community come up with, we should see lots of different approaches to list building and tactics. I'm almost as excited about what other people will create as I am about what I will!

Also, and of particular note, I want to see Mush run 60 Reavers. He's joked about it, now he has to do it Wink
unfortunately without bladevane now.

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Hijallo
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PostSubject: Re: Get ready for the nerfhammer!   Tue Sep 30 2014, 17:13

If there are indeed Venoms in FA, you already know what's cheesy as freak list.
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PainReaver
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PostSubject: Re: Get ready for the nerfhammer!   Tue Sep 30 2014, 18:01

@notts wrote:
@Mr Believer wrote:
@Darklight wrote:
I think there will be more intresting builds now than there was before.

I can't wait to see what our skillful community come up with, we should see lots of different approaches to list building and tactics. I'm almost as excited about what other people will create as I am about what I will!

Also, and of particular note, I want to see Mush run 60 Reavers. He's joked about it, now he has to do it Wink
unfortunately without bladevane now.


Bladevane moved over to HoW. And Mushkilla had a tendency to assault with Reavers anyway.
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novastar
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PostSubject: Re: Get ready for the nerfhammer!   Tue Sep 30 2014, 18:07

1 HoW if the model gets into base contact on the charge or D3 Hits if I zoom through the models, ya even with the rumored rending the new bladevane sucks compared to the old version
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PainReaver
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PostSubject: Re: Get ready for the nerfhammer!   Tue Sep 30 2014, 18:37

@novastar wrote:
1 HoW if the model gets into base contact on the charge or D3 Hits if I zoom through the models, ya even with the rumored rending the new bladevane sucks compared to the old version

You buy caltrops. Problem solved. And with Caltrops you can go flip a Wave Serpent. I'd rather have that. We had enough problems taking out transports or MBTs.
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Klaivex Charondyr
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PostSubject: Re: Get ready for the nerfhammer!   Tue Sep 30 2014, 19:26

@PainReaver wrote:
@novastar wrote:
1 HoW if the model gets into base contact on the charge or D3 Hits if I zoom through the models, ya even with the rumored rending the new bladevane sucks compared to the old version

You buy caltrops. Problem solved. And with Caltrops you can go flip a Wave Serpent. I'd rather have that. We had enough problems taking out transports or MBTs.

You will never get into the rear to bring your HoW attacks. Serpent is as fast as you and ignores your cover save.
The HoW thing is horrid. 6 S4 + 2D6 S6 How hits with rending is clearly inferior to 6D3 S4 + 2D6 S6 without getting in danger to enter melee with that amazing 5+ armor.
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