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 Get ready for the nerfhammer!

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PainReaver
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PostSubject: Re: Get ready for the nerfhammer!   Mon Oct 06 2014, 16:57

@Klaivex Charondyr wrote:
I guess thats why Space Marine Bikes as Troops and 5 DA in Serpent are so uncommon, right?
And if Serpent spam is no thing because of restrictions you suddenly dont see MSU Jetbikes because no one ever use them.

Serpent Spam is not so much for the ObSec as it is for the Wave Serpent.

A lot of people use MSU Jetbikes to do ObSec.

But as one of Skari's battle reports shows, ObSec didn't bother him. (He was using the new Realspace Raiders detachment) In that same battle he also used 1 unit of Wyches (8, heka with aggy, and no wych weapons), and used it successfully to wipe out a unit of Fire Dragons (before being pounced on by a full jetbike squad w/ autarch appearing in from reserves, but any unit would've disappeared under that).


Last edited by PainReaver on Mon Oct 06 2014, 17:01; edited 1 time in total
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Plastikente
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PostSubject: Re: Get ready for the nerfhammer!   Mon Oct 06 2014, 17:01

@notts wrote:

It’s a fair point to say “no point crying as it’s happened now”, but I also think it’s a fair point to be annoyed that they made a unit almost unusably bad. Removing HWG, fine, but no other buff?
About Wyches - check out the wording for Dodge (p.79).  "Against all wounds inflicted in the fight sub-phase."  Doesn't that mean that they can now dodge overwatch fire?  If so, that has been a long time coming and should make them a bit more able to actually get into assault.

I just picked up my book yesterday and have flicked through it for a couple of hours. My first thoughts?... Epic disappointment :-/.  My big problem isn't the nerfing, per se, but they have taken an army that was squishy anyway, and removed most of the stuff that was unique/tactical/fun.


  • Power from pain is the biggest disappointment. You used to earn pain tokens by inflicting pain. Now you get them just for surviving a few turns. That doesn't reflect the fluff or challenge the player.  They have managed to introduce a game mechanic which encourages the army that supposedly strikes with lightning raids to hang back and wait as long as possible until their pain batteries charge from ... hiding?
  • Linked to the above, the Cronos has gone from a clever tool to buff your forces to a worse version of the Talos which has a small FNP buff aura.
  • Reavers' vector-strike-esque blade vanes have been reduced to a buffed Hammer of Wrath. I haven't done the maths to see if it's stronger now, but it is definitely more boring.
  • Removing the special characters sucks, not because of their game mechanics, but because they had great fluff. They added interest and character to the Dark Kin. Maybe they will all reappear in their own £30 update books, but I doubt even GW could justify producing that many for one army.
  • WWP still has the same fundamental problem - you can't assault out of it. And once again, the previous mechanic required more thought and skill to use than just no scatter deep strike.
  • Flyers didn't get vector dancer. So our pilots, who are supposedly "veterans of death races in High Commoragh" still can't do it as well as the CWE?
  • Ravagers got ueber-nerfed with the loss of aerial assault.  So now the our main anti-tank unit has to fly slowly in order to shoot at full effect?  That *so* fits our lightning raid fluff, and if we try to jink, then we have no chance of hitting anyway, so we really need to buy flicker fields as well.  But wait, they can't take those either.  Oh, and if you want to take them with DLs then they're more expensive as well.

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Mr Believer
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PostSubject: Re: Get ready for the nerfhammer!   Mon Oct 06 2014, 17:12

@Plastikente wrote:

About Wyches - check out the wording for Dodge (p.79).  "Against all wounds inflicted in the fight sub-phase."  Doesn't that mean that they can now dodge overwatch fire?  If so, that has been a long time coming and should make them a bit more able to actually get into assault.

Unfortunately, overwatch happens in the charge subphase, so no dodging those bullets Sad

I also liked the old Power from Pain, you felt skilled if a unit got three tokens. I don't mind the new one though, it does still make sense as they draw power from all pain and suffering, including that of other Dark Eldar. I am also very much looking forward to charging Lelith into something with Rage and Furious Charge. Cheeky warlord kills at the end of the game, could be a lot of fun!

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Klaivex Charondyr
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PostSubject: Re: Get ready for the nerfhammer!   Mon Oct 06 2014, 17:13

Quote :
Doesn't that mean that they can now dodge overwatch fire?

No. Overwatch happens in the charge-subphase
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Plastikente
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PostSubject: Re: Get ready for the nerfhammer!   Mon Oct 06 2014, 17:23

Oh yeah, I just saw. So, total nerf then.

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Grub
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PostSubject: Re: Get ready for the nerfhammer!   Mon Oct 06 2014, 20:35

New power from pain is less interesting granted but It does benefit us, without that change, we would get nailed.

Loss of speed well loss of effective speed is a pain and a bore. Lazy writing.

Same with some of the "missing rules" that could or should be included. But to play devils advocate, there are already quite a lot of rules in the book, and I can see why they don't want another craftworld Eldar travesty right!

Play a few games with it. We can still win, we can still cause pain. Just late game. Think of flipping our army upside down. I've enjoyed it in the 1 game I've played. Maybe I will change my mind in a few weeks!

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darthken239
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PostSubject: Re: Get ready for the nerfhammer!   Tue Oct 07 2014, 06:54

I  LOVE the fact that our  dedicated assault unit with no ranged weapons  gets no grenades.  
while  our  long range  AT scourges get them.  WTF

And I am so glad that i have 6 trueborn with shardcarbines. thanks GW
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Klaivex Charondyr
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PostSubject: Re: Get ready for the nerfhammer!   Tue Oct 07 2014, 06:58

Scourges should have gotten HWG. They come at the price of Hawks but lack special rules.
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Black Death
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PostSubject: Re: Get ready for the nerfhammer!   Tue Oct 07 2014, 07:28

Dedicated assault troops, yup they went the way of the banshees also.

Well Hawks don't get special or heavy weapons. I'd rather have that then some grenade pack that doesn't preform that well and a flash light, IMHO. But I do agree, HWG would be awesome to have on them.

I haven't got a game in yet but am looking forward to trying the new dex out. I'm not a math-hammer player but mostly fluff. Until recently I didn't really own many wracks but have 20 now, see what I can come up with.

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Klaivex Charondyr
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PostSubject: Re: Get ready for the nerfhammer!   Tue Oct 07 2014, 08:50

Quote :
Well Hawks don't get special or heavy weapons. I'd rather have that then some grenade pack that doesn't preform that well and a flash light, IMHO. But I do agree, HWG would be awesome to have on them.

I must have missed the point where Scourges get their weapons for free...
Just having the option doesnt make a model cost more (Devastors can take 4 weapons too and are priced the same as a standard Marine).
Also the Hawks come with the granadepack (which is AWESOME), HWG, Skyleap and Herald of Victory.
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Black Death
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PostSubject: Re: Get ready for the nerfhammer!   Tue Oct 07 2014, 19:29

I understand what you're saying but then again the splinter weapon is still better on the scourges then the las . Not for free, we just misunderstanding each others points.

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Klaivex Charondyr
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PostSubject: Re: Get ready for the nerfhammer!   Tue Oct 07 2014, 20:07

@Black Death wrote:
I understand what you're saying but then again the splinter weapon is still better on the scourges then the las . Not for free, we just misunderstanding each others points.

Depends on the Target. Against T3 (guard DE, CWE, Tau,... where also the ignore cover grenade launcher shines) i would prefer the lasblaster. Same amount of shots, same AP +6" range and Battlefocus (spreading after deepstriking is really good, shooting at max range and move away is also useful)
Yes against T4+ the carabine is probably better, but you would not use it anyways as you want to keep minimal squad with specials/heavy.
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Black Death
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PostSubject: Re: Get ready for the nerfhammer!   Wed Oct 08 2014, 02:18

That I agree with 100%.

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darthken239
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PostSubject: Re: Get ready for the nerfhammer!   Wed Oct 08 2014, 16:54

And on closer inspection of the crucible of malediction, it doesn't actually target the psyker unless he's on his own. "any unit in range that include a pysker, brotherhood etc etc takes the hit." so if a farseer in a unit of guardians is in range he just laughs and lets a guardian die.

Piss poor rules explanation GW, ive come t expect nothing less
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PostSubject: Re: Get ready for the nerfhammer!   Wed Oct 08 2014, 16:59

@darthken239 wrote:
And on closer inspection of the crucible of malediction, it doesn't actually target the psyker unless he's on his own. "any unit in range that include a pysker, brotherhood etc etc takes the hit."   so if a farseer in a unit of guardians is in range he just laughs and lets a guardian die.

Piss poor rules explanation GW, ive come t expect nothing less

It's the effect of the psyker staggering around and writhing in pain, he headbutts one of the other guys in the unit.

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