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 A Dark Eldar Codex Wishlist

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Marrath
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PostSubject: Re: A Dark Eldar Codex Wishlist   Wed Jul 02 2014, 06:32

Scourge unique character please.

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PostSubject: Re: A Dark Eldar Codex Wishlist   Wed Jul 02 2014, 07:42

@Panic_Puppet wrote:
Here's a big one - make Webway Portals a fortification choice for Dark Eldar. 0-3 Webway portals at 50 points per portal, may not be placed within 12" of another portal. Count as Impassable Terrain, any non-vehicle Dark Eldar unit that enters from reserves/ongoing reserves may count the edge of the webway portal as their table edge. Venoms are allowed to use webway portals due to their small size (and fits the fluff). Once per turn, a Dark Eldar unit that ends its movement phase fully within 2" of a Webway Portal may choose to enter ongoing reserve. If it does so, it must re-emerge from a Webway Portal rather than a table edge.

Awesome idea. That solves so many problems, and is really elegant. You can deploy fortifications anywhere in your table half, makes this somewhat balanced too. Shame GW probably won't do this. We need a way to communicate this to Phill, although I fear the codex may already be written!

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PostSubject: Re: A Dark Eldar Codex Wishlist   Wed Jul 02 2014, 19:36

Marrath, that's actually a pretty good idea. Letting Archons take scourge wings would also be another.
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Tahlemar
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PostSubject: Re: A Dark Eldar Codex Wishlist   Wed Jul 02 2014, 20:31

@Lord_Alino wrote:
Marrath, that's actually a pretty good idea. Letting Archons take scourge wings would also be another.

Yea that sounds cool. I have a couple of ideas that could work

1: Our Dark Eldar version of phoenix lords would be nice (Drazhar should be one)

2: I was thinking that one of our best melee combat units are incubi but without a venom or a raider they dont have that much of a means to travel fast on their own. With this idea of Archons with scourge wings why not have a melee scourge type unit that can protect leader units like archons. Maybe when you buy the scourges kit you could also have the option to make something like idk Harpies or something that are a melee scourge unit.

Hope you like my ideas Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: A Dark Eldar Codex Wishlist   Wed Jul 02 2014, 20:41

I'm thinking Wracks should be a troop choice base, and maybe Hellions or Jet Bikes
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PostSubject: Re: A Dark Eldar Codex Wishlist   Wed Jul 02 2014, 22:16

I disagree with making Hellions or Reavers troop choices. Yeah, Hellions become troops with Baron, but I don't think they'd ever need to be troops by themselves.

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PostSubject: Re: A Dark Eldar Codex Wishlist   Thu Jul 03 2014, 00:25

Why not Reavers though? I mean Eldar get their jetbikes as base troops so why shouldn't we?
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Dethdispenser
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PostSubject: Re: A Dark Eldar Codex Wishlist   Thu Jul 03 2014, 18:27

The way I see Eldar Jetbikes and Reavers is as follow:
Eldar jet bikes are like Harley Davidson Riders. Nice to ride but not among the fastest. I agree they should not be on par to Reavers and thus should have a lower Turbo Boost Speed.
Reavers are like a Dodge Tomahawk. In it for speed and the skill. I think they should remain Fast.
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: A Dark Eldar Codex Wishlist   Mon Aug 11 2014, 15:28

Hmm, let's see. In no particular order:

- A lot of units need point drops.

- Come to that, so do a lot of weapons. Unless blasters are getting an extra shot, they should be 10pts. Dark Lances should probably be 15, unless GW would instead like to make them actually good.

- Haemonculus Ancient gets IWND (very minor buff, but fits the fluff).

- More weapon options on our vehicles. If it's not too much trouble, maybe ones that are actually useful.

- More weapon options on Trueborn and Warriors. Why is it that Marines can have about 10 different weapons, but we're stuck with:
- A Dark Lance
- A Short-range Dark Lance
- A garbage flamer-wannabe that no one ever takes
- More poison (we were running a bit short)

We even have other weapons - haywire blasters, heat lances etc. - they're just not available for... um... reasons.

- In particular, with vehicles being so amazing in this edition, it would be nice if we had some better weapons for taking them out. Eldar has a variety of useful weapons... yet we're stuck with just dark lances. Also, as others have said, for a Glass Cannon army our weapons seem really pathetic. It's at the stage where we're less glass-cannon and more glass pea-shooter.


Also, whilst I like the idea of poison weapons, more recently I've found them as much of a hindrance as a bonus (can't hurt vehicles, worse against T3). At the very least, it would be nice to see either some different values for poison (not just a blanket 4+), or different weapons having different strength values (so, they're all 4+ still, but some can reroll against certain toughness scores). Come to that, why is it we're stuck with 4+ poison? I mean, even our Special Character - the pirate master of contraband - can only get 3+ poison. And yet SM sternguard get poison that is literally twice as effective. See what I mean when I say we're a glass pea-shooter?


- Really, a lot of equipment in general needs looking at - so much of it is worthless or just badly-overpriced:

Venom Blades - Good, basic weapon. No complaints, however, it always feels wrong when something like this is our go-to weapon - even for HQs - because our other weapons are so terrible and/or overpriced.

Power Weapons - I might consider a Power Axe on a Haemonculus (if I had spare points), or on one of our Sergeants, but that's about it.

Huskblade - Seems far too expensive for S3 models. Still, it's currently our only AP2 weapon that strikes at initiative and at least has a solid effect. Also, why does a Haemonculus pay as much for this as an Archon? Yeah, fear those WS4 I4 attacks.  Rolling Eyes 

Agoniser - Not a poison weapon, and now only AP3. Sigh. Our glass-cannon seems to be lacking ammunition.

Electrocorrosive Whip - Does anyone ever use this? I feel you could knock off 75% of its price and it would still never see play.

Flesh Gauntlet - Is there some sort of design code whereby crap weapons have to cost 20pts? I can't think of many situations where this would be better than Venom Blades (and it costs 4 times as much), and even fewer where poison-shooting wouldn't work even better. Still, at least it's available on the combat beast that is the Haemonculus...

Mindphase Gauntlet - An initiative-based weapon that's exclusive to I4 models (And the Haem. Ancient). Also very specific in its targets, and doesn't actually improve your combat abilities one iota. At least it's cheap, I guess.

Djin Blade - Combine with soul-trap and you can create possibly the only HQ in the game capable of instant-deathing himself. I'm not sure what particular issue that ability solves, but it's bound to solve something.

Animus Vitae - Did this really need to be a special weapon, rather than just working with whatever weapon the model happens to be wielding? In my mind this weapon is 'special' in the same way that the kid eating paste is 'special'.

Personally, I'd like to see more 'solid' weapons (like the agonizer pre-6th) - rather than ones that might do something useful if it's exactly 6pm, on a Tuesday and your opponent is feeling generous.

It would certainly be nice if the Agoniser was allowed its AP2 back. It's more than a little irritating that an I8 Succubus is only allowed AP2 if she's willing to sacrifice 7 points of initiative!

- I'm also with the others who'd like options for our HQs to take Skyboards and Jetbikes.

- I'd also like to see Shadowfield changed, so that a failed save disables it for that phase - not for the rest of the game. Considering the crap other HQs can pull, this seems pretty reasonable.

Might add some more at some point.


EDIT: Apologies - I haven't been here for a while and I didn't notice the date of the last post. So, sorry if this counts as Necroing this thread.  Embarassed 
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PostSubject: Re: A Dark Eldar Codex Wishlist   Mon Aug 11 2014, 15:55

I agree with every single thing you said Shredder, threadomancy or not.

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Barking Agatha
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PostSubject: Re: A Dark Eldar Codex Wishlist   Mon Aug 11 2014, 21:27

@The Shredder wrote:
Also, as others have said, for a Glass Cannon army our weapons seem really pathetic. It's at the stage where we're less glass-cannon and more glass pea-shooter.

For what it's worth though, the DE codex was actually very good for its time. I think that there must have been an internal discussion within GW around then, with one side advocating 'strict limits and restraint' and the other side pushing 'variety and cutting loose', and the second side won. 6th edition opened the floodgates on special rules, massive shooting, huge monsters, formations, super-heavies, and so on... which is fine, but the Dark Eldar are still designed under the 'restraint' idea.

It's as if WH40K were a go-kart race, and suddenly everyone started getting ferraris. It's great, but it kind of sucks for the ones who are still stuck with a go-kart! Smile
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PostSubject: Re: A Dark Eldar Codex Wishlist   Mon Aug 11 2014, 22:32

@Barking Agatha wrote:

For what it's worth though, the DE codex was actually very good for its time.

It was decent, but I'm not sure I'd call it good.

Don't get me wrong - it's very well written, but rulewise it's less spectacular.

Even in 5th, a lot of stuff - particularly wargear and weapons - was pretty useless.

Also, many of the issues that have caused the book to age badly are a result of the poor design decisions when the book was written.

e.g. Blasters did not need to increase in cost by 200%, likewise Dark Lances did not require a 150% increase. Aside from the latter killing the mobility of a squad, they're just not that good.

Also, in an edition that heavily favoured vehicles... why were anti-vehicle options being *removed*? That's just awful design.

Then we have the lack of new weapons added (or, at least, new weapons worth a damn). Have a look at Marines and, more specifically, their weapons - meltas, plasmaguns, plasma cannons, lascannons, multi-meltas, autocannons, assault cannons, missile launchers, etc. They have a wide variety of weapons - so if one or two weapons becomes less useful (for whatever reason) they still have plenty of other ones to fall back on. And, if you want a non-marine example, Eldar back up their Bright Lances with Shuriken Cannons, Missile Launchers, Scatter Lasers, Star Cannons, Fusion Guns etc.

So, what do we get to back up our Dark Lances? Well, our vehicles can take Disintegrators... and that's about it. However, our warriors and trueborn are allowed access to short-range dark lances. Go Team Dark Eldar!

More seriously, this lack of weapon diversity is something that should have changed in 5th... but wasn't. So, what happened when weapons with TL and/or multiple-shots became important in 6th? Well, having nothing to fall back on, we suffered. In 7th, what happened when the effectiveness of AP2 weapons against vehicles was halved? Well, since AP2 weapons make up about 90% of our anti-vehicle armoury, we suffered. Again.

I don't want to insult the book too much - because it is definitely one of the better-written books. However, I do find myself wondering if Kelly focussed a bit too much on the bells and whistles, and not enough time on the core aspects.


Also, one more thing I'd like to add to my list - Raiders and Venoms gain transport capacities of 11 and 6, respectively. So that we can include characters without having to have 9-man or 4-man squads. Seriously, why are we the only army that has to put up with this nonsense?
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PostSubject: Re: A Dark Eldar Codex Wishlist   Tue Aug 12 2014, 09:29

Playing a game against Necrons recently made me think our Haywire Blaster needs to be significantly improved. Compared to the Voltaic Staff (free upgrade for Crypteks) it's absolute crap! I think all our 'special' weapons need an upgrade on the number of shots fired. Dark Lances, Blasters, Heat Lances and Haywire Blasters should all be 2 shots, Shredder needs to get a longer range and large blast or be changed to a Template. Disintegrators need to return to being man-portable weapons as well as the vehicle-mounted version. Personally I'd also like to see all Splinter weapons have the Shred rule but I can't see that happening.

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PostSubject: Re: A Dark Eldar Codex Wishlist   Tue Aug 12 2014, 11:21

@Count Adhemar wrote:
Disintegrators need to return to being man-portable weapons as well as the vehicle-mounted version.

Oh Yes Oh Yes! I only began playing DE (and 40K) back in 5th so I wasnt aware what was available prior but in more recent times I find myself wondering "What if Trueborn could take Dissies...". Damn, I'd field them for sure

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PostSubject: Re: A Dark Eldar Codex Wishlist   Tue Aug 12 2014, 11:42

@Count Adhemar wrote:
Playing a game against Necrons recently made me think our Haywire Blaster needs to be significantly improved. Compared to the Voltaic Staff (free upgrade for Crypteks) it's absolute crap!

Indeed. 24" range is nice, but one shot apiece just isn't enough.

@Count Adhemar wrote:
I think all our 'special' weapons need an upgrade on the number of shots fired. Dark Lances, Blasters, Heat Lances and Haywire Blasters should all be 2 shots, Shredder needs to get a longer range and large blast or be changed to a Template. Disintegrators need to return to being man-portable weapons as well as the vehicle-mounted version. Personally I'd also like to see all Splinter weapons have the Shred rule but I can't see that happening.

The extra shots for Blasters and Dark Lances is an interesting idea. Certainly it would put some gunpowder back in our glass cannon.

I think I'd rather see the shredder become a template weapon... but then I just really like template weapons.  Wink 

I feel it would be nice if there was an anti-vehicle alternative to the Liquifier Gun - so that Wracks and Grotesques can bring some anti-vehicle to the table, if desired.
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PostSubject: Re: A Dark Eldar Codex Wishlist   Tue Aug 12 2014, 16:25

Maybe splinter cannons with shred. I'm not sure the other splinter weapons deserve it. Maybe an ammo upgrade.
They're never going to give HB 2 shots, that'll let a squad of 5 scourges kill a land raider in a single round of shooting, and they need to protect their marine-babies!
Grots are already pretty anti-vehicle, and they're not a shooty unit. That's not the point of them.

I'd like an AP value for the shredder. Even a variable one like the liquifier has. It just makes sense!
I really think the book just wants some tweaks to make workable those things nobody ever puts in a list. Better mandrakes, better hellions. And fingers crossed for not taking away rules for things with no models.

Basically, we want the codex to be upgraded just enough to keep our army mobile, fast and plan-ruining, without overpowering. I don't want to be the next Tau or Beastmen, where everyone is suddenly a DE player because they always win.

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PostSubject: Re: A Dark Eldar Codex Wishlist   Tue Aug 12 2014, 16:50

@thesaltedwound wrote:
They're never going to give HB 2 shots, that'll let a squad of 5 scourges kill a land raider in a single round of shooting, and they need to protect their marine-babies!

I'm confused as to your logic here. It's wrong for a ~130pt squad to possibly kill a land raider in a single round of shooting (the odds are against them, but whatever), yet its fine for a 25pt cryptek to have the same odds?  Question 

@thesaltedwound wrote:

Grots are already pretty anti-vehicle, and they're not a shooty unit. That's not the point of them.

Perhaps, but this would allow them the possibility of finishing a transport and then assaulting the contents.

In any case, I was thinking more of Wracks (but, it would be logical for grotesques to have access to the same weapons).

@thesaltedwound wrote:
I don't want to be the next Tau or Beastmen, where everyone is suddenly a DE player because they always win.

Tau I can understand... but Beastmen? Aren't they the worst army at the moment?  scratch 
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PostSubject: Re: A Dark Eldar Codex Wishlist   Tue Aug 12 2014, 18:47

I heard something about Disinigrators on this forum needing to be man handled. I agree with this, sense... they're smaller than Dark Lances.

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PostSubject: Re: A Dark Eldar Codex Wishlist   Tue Aug 12 2014, 21:54

@thesaltedwound wrote:
I don't want to be the next Tau or Beastmen, where everyone is suddenly a DE player because they always win.

Goodness, no! We want to be as unpopular as possible. Smile

Seriously though, if everyone always wins, then no one always wins. That's just logic!

And, beastmen? You must be either really out of touch with Warhammer Fantasy or... do you come from the Future? Do you? Tell me! Does George R. R. Martin ever finish Game of Thrones?

That's what I'd ask you, if you came from the future Smile
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PostSubject: Re: A Dark Eldar Codex Wishlist   Tue Aug 12 2014, 22:40

With the new rules for vehicle damage, i think our darklight should be upgraded to AP1 ... fluff says you cant even look at the beam with no sunglasses (  Cool  ) without scarring your eyes.
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PostSubject: Re: A Dark Eldar Codex Wishlist   Tue Aug 12 2014, 23:32

Shred on splinter weaponry would be utterly brutal...75% chance to wound anything that's not a gargantuan creature? Maybe Poisoned (5+) Shred, which gives us a slight increase in damage output (55% chance to wound as opposed to 50%).

@The Shredder, 10 and 5 man capacity transports are fine, lots of armies have to deal with that... the problem is with the "must take 10" stipulation to unlock certain options. I'd personally love to see the venom as a dedicated transport option for Archons, as that fits the fluff... I can see us getting a chariot though (please not like Space Wolf Santa...)

The thing I'd like to see most though, is not something I'm sure is doable without completely changing the DE way of life. I'd like to see something that makes games close. Because of the fragile-yet-powerful nature of our elves, almost all of my games end up with one of the armies being roflstomped and bleeding in the corner; theirs not being able to stand up to a withering fusillade, or mine as they find ways to deal with the cardboard box spam I insist on bringing to every game. I've had one or two close games and they've been amazing, but they're just so few and far between.

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PostSubject: Re: A Dark Eldar Codex Wishlist   Tue Aug 12 2014, 23:44

It seems that pre-existing units that do not have models/kits have kits made or the units are removed.

E.g. for CSM, if Dark Vengeance never existed then Chosen would not exist in the codex, or a Chosen kit would be released along with that codex.

So I anticipate a Trueborn kit released in some way, either in a sanctus reach type set or stand-alone.  To justify the new kit, my stab-in-the-dark is that Trueborn will come with ghostplate standard, and the kit will come with existing trueborn specials, shard carbines, and a new weapon (man-portable disintegrator perhaps?).

For bloodbrides, no idea.  I can't think of how to justify a kit for bloodbrides.  Perhaps GW would reason that bloodbrides exist as their models (hekatrix) exist in the wych kit and leave them in the new codex.

Also, I would like the shredder to be reworked into a weapon that does what it sounds to me like it should be doing in the fluff, e.g. incapacitating victims ready for capture.  IMO it should at least get pinning, or slow enemy movement somehow.
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PostSubject: Re: A Dark Eldar Codex Wishlist   Wed Aug 13 2014, 00:14

@Panic_Puppet wrote:
Shred on splinter weaponry would be utterly brutal...75% chance to wound anything that's not a gargantuan creature?  Maybe Poisoned (5+) Shred, which gives us a slight increase in damage output (55% chance to wound as opposed to 50%).

Whilst I agree that it would significantly up our chances to wound you have to remember that poisoned shooting is a double-edged sword. Unlike poison melee attacks there is no upside for attacking something where you would normally expect to need less than a 4+ to wound, as they count as being S1. You will never need less than 4+ to wound something, even if it's Toughness 1. It's also worth remembering that pretty much everything where 4+ to wound is beneficial (generally anything T5 or better) will usually get a saving throw against the damage as we're only AP5. So this would only have a real effect on models with poor armour, which sounds about right when thinking about a hail of fragile but deadly shards of poison. Shredding splinter weapons would actually kill only 0.55 more MEQ for every 10 shots than the current version.

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PostSubject: Re: A Dark Eldar Codex Wishlist   Wed Aug 13 2014, 01:38

@Agatha, I'm extremely out of touch with WHFB. I vaguely remember a beastmen update that ludicrously overpowered them, or perhaps I was just playing against a liar. Not at all unlikely ^^

That said, I am indeed from the future. The last person to die in the GoT saga is actually George R. R. himself. Oh snap, spoiler alert.

Yeah, honestly though, let's remain the unpopular choice, and keep winning games. We can all do it. We could all do it without an updated codex! But while we have the chance, let's hope for some not-fun things to get more fun.

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PostSubject: Re: A Dark Eldar Codex Wishlist   Wed Aug 13 2014, 02:10

I like being unpopular. That way we don't have a bunch of scrubs playing us just to win games.

Although with that said, I want to be allowed to bring Incubi as troops if you take Drazhar... ALL THE CC!!!
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