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 A Dark Eldar Codex Wishlist

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krayd
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PostSubject: Re: A Dark Eldar Codex Wishlist   Tue Sep 16 2014, 03:00

@Elzadar wrote:
@Dragontree wrote:
@Dethdispenser wrote:
@krayd wrote:
as of 7th edition, pinned units are unable to fire overwatch.


Can you verify where this is? I know that OW can't cause pinning, but i never read that a pinned unit can't fire OW.

Page 168 of BRB - if a unit fails a pinning test it must immediately go to ground

Page 38 of BRB - A unit that has gone to ground cannot shoot overwatch

There ya go fella Smile

wait what Shocked

Yup. Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on the sort of armies you tend to play against), snipers no longer cause pinning, making allied rangers a little less useful.
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Lord_Alino
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PostSubject: Re: A Dark Eldar Codex Wishlist   Tue Sep 16 2014, 03:13

@krayd wrote:
@Elzadar wrote:
@Dragontree wrote:
@Dethdispenser wrote:
@krayd wrote:
as of 7th edition, pinned units are unable to fire overwatch.


Can you verify where this is? I know that OW can't cause pinning, but i never read that a pinned unit can't fire OW.

Page 168 of BRB - if a unit fails a pinning test it must immediately go to ground

Page 38 of BRB - A unit that has gone to ground cannot shoot overwatch

There ya go fella Smile

wait what Shocked

Yup. Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on the sort of armies you tend to play against), snipers no longer cause pinning, making allied rangers a little less useful.

-Cries-

I guess I'll go... make a more reasonable kabal to play. My brotherhood can just be super awesome fluff.
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jbwms713
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PostSubject: Re: A Dark Eldar Codex Wishlist   Thu Sep 18 2014, 16:35

So I got through the first 4 pages or so... some of this may be a recap, but... you know...

Obvsies warlord traits and "Relics" (Yeah, our Arcane Wargear already is, so... cool).
As for "Relics"... more proper anti-psyker. Like, scary anti-psyker. If something is one-use, it needs to be good, not a handful of S3 shots. "OOoooohhh, I rolled 2 6's and killed your guy! HA!". Yeah, well, a dark lance would have been more efficient. And can shoot the rest of the game, too.
I absolutely LOVE the idea of crazy Heamonculus gear (although I want it available to others) that does crazy things... but it needs to be crazy-effective if you only get it once.

Kids... we shouldn't have battle focus. Key word - Focus. That's not really our bag. Should we have something? Sure, but PfP is pretty powerful. Give Kabalites Cover and FnP, and they're more survivable (by points) than marines (who basically pay points to be survivable).

I'd say being able to buy stealth/shrouded for vehicles would be great/fluffy... but any cover-bonus is too dependent on your opponent to matter. Playing Eldar/Tau/IG? Cover is ignored. Cool.

Mandrakes? If they had FnP built in they'd be dangerously close to worth the points. They don't need to be toting S5 ap2 Init6 power weapons to be a good unit. As now, yes, garbage. Stealth should be a thing. Probably a non-scatter DS option. Start with FnP and baleblast standard, and... yeah, I'd at least try them at 15 a pop. I may want a decrease after trying it, but I'd definitely give them a go.

I'd love Wyches to be able to use their Dodge vs Overwatch. And I'd love Succubi to have a 5++ vs Shooting. Pluse some meaningful weapon options.

Be cheezy. Just make the shadowfield a cheap 2++. We're still getting gibb'd by S6 "relics" that every other character has access to, so you may as well. As soon as the field is gone the Archon is dead within 2 minutes, there's functionally no difference.

I want the jet planes to have more defined roles. Vector Dancer for both... the Bomber should have more guns... there's no reason for a craft that has the ability to fire 4 weapons only be armed with 2 (plus a one-use bomb, which needs to be way more powerful to be worth having). Interested to see what they do with these, though. I still always compare to the Vendetta and cringe at how much better the IG version is in every possible way, for a scant few more points.

Dark Light weaponry down 5 points. Shredders up 5, gain Monofilament rule. Maybe up to 18" range as well. Access to other weapons. If you just took the Heat Lance and Haywire options and passed them around, we'd have a lot of solid options at our desposal. Or, you know, 4, which is at least a moderate amount.

Weapon options on vehicles. TL Heat Lance/Haywire/Cannon, or Lance/Dissie. These should all be interchangeable (more or less, with maybe some points tweaks). I'd like to see the Dissie to up to S6, just to fill that gap and become "our autocannon". Less necessary if haywire/HL became more wide-spread, though.
Venoms up to Carry 6 (min squad + joined Character, it just fits). Not 100% necessary, but would be nice. I can see them, for the current price, losing the 2nd gun, which is sad after all the conversions I've done... but maybe if you could buy a venom as a transport with 1 gun (carry 6) or a FA venom with no transport (or maybe 1, for that special character in your life) but with 2 gun options... I could get behind that. I mean, it's our Vyper equivalent. Vyper with 6 S6 shots and Holo's is the same cost as a Venom with Night shield and 2 Cannons. Difference is some range ambiguity and we transport... but it's a very similar platform... so yeah... the above could be an answer to the "too powerful for a transport" but "fills a FA role that we otherwise don't have" shenanigans.
Or I'll just use my conversions as allied Vypers and call it a day, if they screw over Venoms too hard.

Hmmm. I've been so focused on Nids lately that I've barely given any attention to the DE for months. That may be changing soon, though.

I'd love to see wargear that makes night fight an all-game thing. I'd love to see the Horrorfex come back in all of its former glory. Return of the Nightmare Doll, but useable/worthwhile.

Bring back the fear. Proper.
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Devilogical
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PostSubject: Re: A Dark Eldar Codex Wishlist   Thu Sep 18 2014, 17:00

What do u guys think our warlord traits will be like?
I hope we will get some real nice stuff, like Eldar. Maybe something like in Apoc (like given drugs to kabalite or wraks, make night fight on some turn etc.)


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Devilogical
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PostSubject: Re: A Dark Eldar Codex Wishlist   Thu Sep 18 2014, 17:47

And btw, haemi dissapeared from GW site, as a Succubus.

We will get haemi pre-order in a few days.
What do you think - will there be new plastic succubus along side with coven master?

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Bleaksoul Brethren
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PostSubject: Re: A Dark Eldar Codex Wishlist   Thu Sep 18 2014, 18:00

Dark Eldar has 3 different styles of an army in 1 codex in my opinion (coven, kabal, and wyche cult). I hope they give each of them their own unique thing.
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rad_dawg
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PostSubject: Re: A Dark Eldar Codex Wishlist   Thu Sep 18 2014, 22:34

It'd be nice if our flickerfields and night shields got a buff. How does this sound? Night shields grant stealth or upgraded to shroud if it's night fighting and flickerfields makes our cover saves into invuln saves vs shooting. Maybe some kind of drawback if we activate our flickerfields.
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jbwms713
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PostSubject: Re: A Dark Eldar Codex Wishlist   Fri Sep 19 2014, 04:24

Problem with Stealth is, half the time it's a moot rule. There are too many armies that can ignore cover willy nilly (or, at least enough to target priority things). Negating range is universal, and downright brutal against a reasonable percent of armies out there.
GK's, Nids, Necrons, Orks (I think?), SoB...
All of these have a focus on short-to-mid (upward of 24") ranged shooting, with a smattering of long ranged support options. Hint - we're pretty good at targeting things early on that we deem need to die quickly. Then we get to rove around, laughing at our enemy's pathetic effective 18" range.

Sigh... oh how I love them...

Skilled Rider, for the bonus Jink, would be a nice upgrade option... but... I dunno. It's hard when talking defensive upgrades, because... well... that's not the DE specialty. You have to be careful when implementing to not go so far as to go against the core concepts.
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TheNeonArlecchino
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PostSubject: Re: A Dark Eldar Codex Wishlist   Fri Sep 19 2014, 05:37

It may seem silly but I would really like the ability for Mandrakes to be able to teleport into a friendly squad from anywhere on the board. The Mandrakes appear from their shadows, killing them.

The catch would be that if it's a Dark Eldar squad, then it must have as many or more models than the teleporting Mandrakes. Dark Eldar squads can only be a target for this move when there are no non-Dark Eldar, under your control, on the field. One model from the target squad dies for each Mandrake moved this way and the rest go to ground.
If it's not a Dark Eldar squad then the model number doesn't matter, all models are destroyed when the Mandrakes teleport.
Harlequin Troupes do not count as non-Dark Eldar for this ability.
Vehicles, Jetbikes, and units in melee combat may not be targeted for this ability.
The ability can only be used once per game for each Mandrake Squad and may be used when leaving reserves.

This may be a bit too powerful for all Mandrake squads but a character with the ability to give this to them would still be fun.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: A Dark Eldar Codex Wishlist   Fri Sep 19 2014, 07:23

@TheNeonArlecchino wrote:
It may seem silly but I would really like the ability for Mandrakes to be able to teleport into a friendly squad from anywhere on the board. The Mandrakes appear from their shadows, killing them.

Seems well balanced and I can't imagine anyone would have a problem with that.

What a Face affraid No

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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: A Dark Eldar Codex Wishlist   Fri Sep 19 2014, 09:59

Btw, this is what I actually expect in our new book:

Problem - "We basically only have one ranged anti-tank weapon, which is overpriced and crap."
GW Team - "Gee, that sucks. Here, have some more anti-infantry weapons to compensate."

Problem - "Wyches are too expensive and fragile to be effective combat units - especially with overwatch."
GW Team - "I know, we'll up their cost to 15pts per model, but give them WS5."

Problem - "A Succubus can now only get AP2 if she sacrifices all her initiative."
GW Team - "Well, for a mere 50pts, she can have a Power Fist."

Problem - "About 90% of the DE wargear list is useless."
GW Team - "Don't worry, we'll be sure to remove that pesky 10% that's making the rest look bad"

etc.
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Mngwa
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PostSubject: Re: A Dark Eldar Codex Wishlist   Fri Sep 19 2014, 14:07

Skilled rider sounds like a nice upgrade if it is properly priced and not mandatory for a skimmer.

The +3 jink is the obvious benefit but I would also love to be able to ignore dangerous terrain. As small of a chance it is, I still can't imagine some careless pilot crashing a raider on a tree.

Hmm...
If we are indeed getting wrack-pilots, maybe they could ignore dangerous terrain?
They sound like a little more cautious drivers than wyches.
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jbwms713
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PostSubject: Re: A Dark Eldar Codex Wishlist   Fri Sep 19 2014, 14:27

As far as upgrade pilots go, I would actually see Wyches granting Skilled Rider (a la reavers), while Wracks give... well... it's hard to say what racks give. Probably some protective "thing", based on a heamy contraption that they use on "their" transports. They tend to lean toward being "more durable" as a rule.
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barenone
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PostSubject: Re: A Dark Eldar Codex Wishlist   Fri Sep 19 2014, 16:13

Maybe something like ignore shaken and stunned with racks because the are to drugged out to be slowed.... I just thought of something as well, What if the add pain tokens for the vehicles. Fluff wise it is the driver who gets the token affecting his driving style. maybe move further with 1, with a second add an extra d3 (that stacks) to ramming Armour pin. ummm 3rd maybe something like allowing units to disembark and embark the vehicle on the same turn.
I am sure there would be better stuff. that is just off the top of my head.
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TheNeonArlecchino
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PostSubject: Re: A Dark Eldar Codex Wishlist   Fri Sep 19 2014, 18:26

@Count Adhemar wrote:
@TheNeonArlecchino wrote:
It may seem silly but I would really like the ability for Mandrakes to be able to teleport into a friendly squad from anywhere on the board. The Mandrakes appear from their shadows, killing them.

Seems well balanced and I can't imagine anyone would have a problem with that.
That's why I put it in a wishlist thread, I don't think it'll happen but it would be fun! ^^
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ulijikaru
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PostSubject: Re: A Dark Eldar Codex Wishlist   Fri Sep 19 2014, 19:48

Maybe it's my cynical nature but I am beginning to have this creeping fear: we are battle brothers with arguably the best army in the game. I sincerely hope that our codex is not lack luster to prevent the already formidable Eldar from becoming unstoppable...

Anyone else have the same concern?
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Mngwa
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PostSubject: Re: A Dark Eldar Codex Wishlist   Fri Sep 19 2014, 19:59

My wishlist for the new codex is the ossefactor to be awesome.
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PostSubject: Re: A Dark Eldar Codex Wishlist   Fri Sep 19 2014, 20:36

@ulijikaru wrote:
Maybe it's my cynical nature but I am beginning to have this creeping fear: we are battle brothers with arguably the best army in the game. I sincerely hope that our codex is not lack luster to prevent the already formidable Eldar from becoming unstoppable...

Anyone else have the same concern?

I would have that concern if Games Workshop play tested. No, if our codex is lackluster it will be due to lazy design, not balance. I'm still concerned the book will hurt more than help, but not for that reason.

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ulijikaru
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PostSubject: Re: A Dark Eldar Codex Wishlist   Fri Sep 19 2014, 20:45

Quote :
I would have that concern if Games Workshop play tested. No, if our codex is lackluster it will be due to lazy design, not balance. I'm still concerned the book will hurt more than help, but not for that reason.

So what are your reasons of concern?
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: A Dark Eldar Codex Wishlist   Fri Sep 19 2014, 20:57

@ulijikaru wrote:
So what are your reasons of concern?

GW's publication history?
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The Red King
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PostSubject: Re: A Dark Eldar Codex Wishlist   Fri Sep 19 2014, 21:37

That mandrake rule makes no sense. Can only teleport to a friendly squad, can't have any non dark eldar under your control (never going to be a rule as they want you to buy more models), and finally if it is not a dark eldar squad then it dies.

How do you teleport to a friendly non dark eldar squad if you can only do it if your whole army is dark eldar?

And I must be missing something because, why would you ever do this? Get across the board fast at the cost of 5-10 models? That's a 50-100 point ability for no benefit?


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PostSubject: Re: A Dark Eldar Codex Wishlist   Fri Sep 19 2014, 22:35

@The Shredder wrote:
@ulijikaru wrote:
So what are your reasons of concern?

GW's publication history?

This. I'm still anxious but I'm not setting myself up for disappointment.

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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: A Dark Eldar Codex Wishlist   Fri Sep 19 2014, 22:52

@The Red King wrote:
That mandrake rule makes no sense. Can only teleport to a friendly squad,  can't have any non dark eldar under your control (never going to be a rule as they want you to buy more models), and finally if it is not a dark eldar squad then it dies.

How do you teleport to a friendly non dark eldar squad if you can only do it if your whole army is dark eldar?

And I must be missing something because,  why would you ever do this?  Get across the board fast at the cost of 5-10 models?  That's a 50-100 point ability for no benefit?


Sorry, which rule is this? I've never heard of any 'Mandrake rule'. Question
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The Red King
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PostSubject: Re: A Dark Eldar Codex Wishlist   Sat Sep 20 2014, 00:15

Can't quote on my phone, page back.

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TheNeonArlecchino
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PostSubject: Re: A Dark Eldar Codex Wishlist   Sat Sep 20 2014, 04:49

@The Red King wrote:
That mandrake rule makes no sense. Can only teleport to a friendly squad,  can't have any non dark eldar under your control (never going to be a rule as they want you to buy more models), and finally if it is not a dark eldar squad then it dies.

How do you teleport to a friendly non dark eldar squad if you can only do it if your whole army is dark eldar?

And I must be missing something because,  why would you ever do this?  Get across the board fast at the cost of 5-10 models?  That's a 50-100 point ability for no benefit?

I think you misunderstood what I was going for.

The only squads you can teleport into are ones under your control. If you have members of another race that aren't in the Dark Eldar Codex, then you must teleport into those first and the model cost for the action is potentially greater or lower.

Say I have a group of Imperial Guardsmen in my army. They in range of a Howling Banshee squad and will definitely be attacked next turn, all of them will die. I also have some Wyches nearby and in range to intercept.
I use my Mandrake's ability but have to select the guardsmen since they are not Dark Eldar. They are destroyed, the Mandrakes get a pain token, and now the Banshees will be charged by two threatening squads.

It's a skill that likely won't be used every game but it is one that when used... could be magical /)*3*(\

_______________

Another thing on my wishlist is that Dark Eldar become Battle Brothers with any army as long as Dark Eldar are the main force.
We used to have rules for grabbing enemies as slaves, let's use those slaves for something on the battlefield! (Outside of haemonculus pleasantries)
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