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 Wrack seems got nerfed

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lelith
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PostSubject: Wrack seems got nerfed   Wrack seems got nerfed I_icon_minitimeThu May 29 2014, 04:54

Greeting, denizens of Commorragh,

First of all, this is my first posting and please let me know if this topic is being discussed elsewhere.

DE players, including me, are considering using close-combat units (like Wracks and Grots) in the present edition. Today, though, I found that Wracks got nerfed - in fact, it is the poisoned melee weapon that has been nerfed seen as follows:


(6th Rulebook, 40P) If S of the wielder (or the poisoned melee weapon) is the same or higher than the T of the victim, he re-rolls failed To Wound.

(7th Rulebook, 169P) Now S must be higher than the T.


which means, now Wracks with Furious Charge cannot re-roll their To Wound vs the marines or other units with T4. How do you think about it?
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Laughingcarp
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PostSubject: Re: Wrack seems got nerfed   Wrack seems got nerfed I_icon_minitimeThu May 29 2014, 07:33

Oh, that's absolutely brütal!!! That's a serious nerf as far as I'm concerned, and hurts us bad. With 2 pain tokens, I used to be willing to toss a unit of wracks at a unit of marines and expect them to do well. Now on of our primary CC units just took a shot to the kidneys.

Thank you for pointing that out, lelith, and a welcome and your excellent first post to the Dark City community!

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Mushkilla
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PostSubject: Re: Wrack seems got nerfed   Wrack seems got nerfed I_icon_minitimeThu May 29 2014, 07:55

Not the end of the world, it was a 50% damage increase. But now wracks are more likely to get into combat with 50% more models (as our vehicles are a lot more survivable), and they don't need a second pain token for that. Very Happy

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lelith
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PostSubject: Re: Wrack seems got nerfed   Wrack seems got nerfed I_icon_minitimeThu May 29 2014, 08:00

@Mushkilla wrote:
Not the end of the world, it was a 50% damage increase. But now wracks are more likely to get into combat with 50% more models (as our vehicles are a lot more survivable), and they don't need a second pain token for that. Very Happy

That opinion looks attractive! Anyhow, I'm gonna use my wracks as usual in this weekend, for the first game in 7th Ed. Will see it's got buffed or nerfed  cyclops 
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PostSubject: Re: Wrack seems got nerfed   Wrack seems got nerfed I_icon_minitimeThu May 29 2014, 08:26

I'm still running 9 w/ Haemie and double Liquifier action. Yes it's a nerf, but as Mush says they will see more action than 6th.

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Squidmaster
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PostSubject: Re: Wrack seems got nerfed   Wrack seems got nerfed I_icon_minitimeThu May 29 2014, 10:36

Shocked 

*blinks eyes*

*looks stupid*

*realizes he's NEVER played that part of the poison rule*

*bangs head on table*
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Cavash
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PostSubject: Re: Wrack seems got nerfed   Wrack seems got nerfed I_icon_minitimeThu May 29 2014, 17:05

@Squidmaster wrote:
Shocked 

*blinks eyes*

*looks stupid*

*realizes he's NEVER played that part of the poison rule*

*bangs head on table*

I had no idea either... As far as I'm concerned, this is a gain to me as I've never used it before! Thanks for bringing it to m attention! Very Happy

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Dogmar
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PostSubject: Re: Wrack seems got nerfed   Wrack seems got nerfed I_icon_minitimeThu May 29 2014, 19:06

I'm quite sad about the change, this rule was the thing that made wracks reliable as an assault unit, their damage potential decreased dramatically now. That said I rarely fielded wracks anyway, but I hope they get a bit more love in the next incarnation of our books.

Grots are largely unaffected by that though and will still work fine with say a scissorhand on an aberration or something.
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Athalkar
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PostSubject: Re: Wrack seems got nerfed   Wrack seems got nerfed I_icon_minitimeFri May 30 2014, 00:45

Ouch, I loved those re-rolls.

Though with respect to wracks, the liquifier guns got a bit of a perk now that flamers work on models inside of transports under the "no escape" rule. (well open-topped transports and transports with fire points).



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Ubernoob1
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PostSubject: Re: Wrack seems got nerfed   Wrack seems got nerfed I_icon_minitimeFri May 30 2014, 00:52

@Athalkar wrote:
Though with respect to wracks, the liquifier guns got a bit of a perk now that flamers work on models inside of transports under the "no escape" rule.  (well open-topped transports and transports with fire points).  

Unfortunately it only applies to "building" fire points, and open topped vehicles. Unless I'm mistaken template weapons will not affect non-open topped vehicle passengers.
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PostSubject: Re: Wrack seems got nerfed   Wrack seems got nerfed I_icon_minitimeFri May 30 2014, 02:21

@Ubernoob1 wrote:

Unfortunately it only applies to "building" fire points, and open topped vehicles. Unless I'm mistaken template weapons will not affect non-open topped vehicle passengers.

That is correct Ubernoob1. The rules are very clearly written.

As for the power or Liquifiers, yes they have gotten better due to their new rule and they still have a 50% chance of killing Marines outright. Liquifiers and Dis Cannons are a marine player worst nightmare IMO

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DEfan
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PostSubject: Re: Wrack seems got nerfed   Wrack seems got nerfed I_icon_minitimeFri May 30 2014, 08:54

Open topped vehicles must be the schizz!

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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Wrack seems got nerfed   Wrack seems got nerfed I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 03 2014, 13:47

It's annoying, but admittedly less so for me.

My Wrack squads were 3-man ones, and used exclusively to capture objectives.

I switched because larger Wrack squads never did *anything* in combat. It didn't matter how crap their opponents were, they'd always managed to lose the combat.
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PostSubject: Re: Wrack seems got nerfed   Wrack seems got nerfed I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 03 2014, 14:00

I love my 10 Wracks + 2 Liquifier units. I've only used them twice in 7th and the first game they spent the whole game Furious Charging T3 models so were happy. The second they got stuck fighting Terminators and were probably about 70% of their old effectiveness.

Makes me sad... but I love them, so they stay.

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PostSubject: Re: Wrack seems got nerfed   Wrack seems got nerfed I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 03 2014, 19:03

My wracks always prove them to be more worthy than their stats suggest. Last game (with 7ed nerf) I charged with six of them with Liquifier on nine Dire Avengers with Exarch and Farseer. On the second turn of combat they kill all the avengers and force characters to run (just into Ravers' bladevanes) How many wracks die in the process? zero Smile
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Wrack seems got nerfed   Wrack seems got nerfed I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 06 2014, 07:07

So far, the change hasn't affected my games.
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Unorthodoxy
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PostSubject: Re: Wrack seems got nerfed   Wrack seems got nerfed I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 06 2014, 07:14

Hex rifles got a big nerf too. I was quite annoyed to find they don't pin. I have one in every wrack unit.

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Mngwa
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PostSubject: Re: Wrack seems got nerfed   Wrack seems got nerfed I_icon_minitimeSun Jun 08 2014, 15:15

As someone who has used wracks in 80% of his games, I noticed it and I am sad about it. No effect on splinter weaponry but wracks are now worse in CC and I doubt they can stand against marines as well as they used to anymore (which is basically all I have been using them against). I will be more careful of charging a unit of 3 against a unit of 5 marines now Sad

Well, they are still good for a little fight and for objectives ofc, especially since they are scoring even without a haemonculus. And with a haemonculus, you can use 30 points to capture an objective from an enemy non-troop unit which is always fun ^^
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Wrack seems got nerfed   Wrack seems got nerfed I_icon_minitimeSun Jun 08 2014, 15:18

@Mngwa wrote:
I will be more careful of charging a unit of 3 against a unit of 5 marines now Sad

Wait... you charged 3 wracks into 5 marines? And, presumably, won?  Neutral 

I've charged 5 wracks into 3 marines before, and they still got their butts handed to them.  Crying or Very sad 
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Zenotaph
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PostSubject: Re: Wrack seems got nerfed   Wrack seems got nerfed I_icon_minitimeSun Jun 08 2014, 15:26

@Mngwa wrote:
Well, they are still good for a little fight and for objectives ofc, especially since they are scoring even without a haemonculus.

And how does that work? Now, I'm really interested.

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PostSubject: Re: Wrack seems got nerfed   Wrack seems got nerfed I_icon_minitimeSun Jun 08 2014, 16:10

@Mngwa wrote:
No effect on splinter weaponry

It isn't really hugely noticeable, but Splinter weapons actually got a tiny bit BETTER in this edition. When firing at vehicles, they now count as Strength 1, which means they DO have a chance to hurt vehicles if some other effect is in play, such as Doom/Misfortune (whichever one gives Rending to the attackers) or Entropic Strike.

@Zenotaph wrote:
@Mngwa wrote:
Well, they are still good for a little fight and for objectives ofc, especially since they are scoring even without a haemonculus.

And how does that work? Now, I'm really interested.

Everything scores in 7th, Zen. Even Elites choices. Of course, if two units are both trying to claim an objective, a troops choice will take precedence.
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Mngwa
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PostSubject: Re: Wrack seems got nerfed   Wrack seems got nerfed I_icon_minitimeSun Jun 08 2014, 16:19

@The Shredder wrote:
@Mngwa wrote:
I will be more careful of charging a unit of 3 against a unit of 5 marines now Sad

Wait... you charged 3 wracks into 5 marines? And, presumably, won?  Neutral 

I've charged 5 wracks into 3 marines before, and they still got their butts handed to them.  Crying or Very sad 

Haha, yeah it is not too likely but I had a squad of three wracks kick up 4 assault marines (one had died earlier) They lost only one of their guys after two rounds

Another of their heroics has been charging a tau commander and whiffing their chance of killing him, but oh well ^^
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PostSubject: Re: Wrack seems got nerfed   Wrack seems got nerfed I_icon_minitimeSun Jun 08 2014, 18:46

I've multi-assaulted 9 wracks+Haemy into 2x 5-man marine squads in 6e remarkably successfully before, but have yet to try it since. Hopefully it'll still do a decent job of weight-of-attacks.

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