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 7th Changes for Dark Eldar - a review

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Mandor
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PostSubject: Re: 7th Changes for Dark Eldar - a review   Fri May 23 2014, 07:53

@Siticus the Ancient wrote:
In that case everything is fine. The only restriction on dedicated transports has been just that only the squad that took it as dedicated can be deployed inside it. Nothing stops (or stopped) you from, say, taking 20 Kabalite Warriors and buying a Venom for them, for example.

Actually, only Imperial armies are allowed to do this. We are limited to a maximum squad size of 10 to buy a Raider, or 5 for a Venom. You are right on the ability to deploy inside the transport or not though.
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PostSubject: Re: 7th Changes for Dark Eldar - a review   Fri May 23 2014, 08:48

@Squidmaster wrote:
I've been ablke to loom at a new rulebook, and I can't find that anywhere.

It says only the unit the transport was bought for can deploy in it, but it doesn't say they HAVE to deploy in it.

Even if it so this whole idia with eldar ally in a raider still pretty lame.

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: 7th Changes for Dark Eldar - a review   Fri May 23 2014, 08:57

@Devilogical wrote:
Even if it so this whole idia with eldar ally in a raider still pretty lame.

Tell that to the Dark Reapers pootling around in a Venom Smile

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PostSubject: Re: 7th Changes for Dark Eldar - a review   Fri May 23 2014, 08:59

@Siticus the Ancient wrote:
Nothing stops (or stopped) you from, say, taking 20 Kabalite Warriors and buying a Venom for them, for example.

Actually in the dark eldar rule book above the raider and venom categories on page 91 it states that:

'Units may not select a dedicated transport if the number of models in the unit is higher than the transport capacity of the vehicle'

I always presumed this was a game wide rule and it makes sense to me at least.

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: 7th Changes for Dark Eldar - a review   Fri May 23 2014, 09:04

Sadly it's now unique to us and possibly Orks. Anyone else can take a transport for a unit regardless of how many models in the unit.

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PostSubject: Re: 7th Changes for Dark Eldar - a review   Fri May 23 2014, 09:12

@Count Adhemar wrote:
Tell that to the Dark Reapers pootling around in a Venom Smile

They changed the rule, that no ally can use the transports of the others?
Hm, 5 grots and a haemi in a wave serpent? I like the idea.

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PostSubject: Re: 7th Changes for Dark Eldar - a review   Fri May 23 2014, 09:17

@Count Adhemar wrote:
I've just read a HUGE change on another forum. Someone is claiming that template weapons can now affect the passengers of an Open-Topped vehicle. Can anyone who has the book confirm or deny this please?

Erm... yes. D6 hits
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PostSubject: Re: 7th Changes for Dark Eldar - a review   Fri May 23 2014, 09:19

@Count Adhemar wrote:
@Devilogical wrote:
Even if it so this whole idia with eldar ally in a raider still pretty lame.

Tell that to the Dark Reapers pootling around in a Venom Smile

They do better alone in a ruin i believe

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PostSubject: Re: 7th Changes for Dark Eldar - a review   Fri May 23 2014, 09:28

@Barking Agatha wrote:
@Count Adhemar wrote:
I've just read a HUGE change on another forum. Someone is claiming that template weapons can now affect the passengers of an Open-Topped vehicle. Can anyone who has the book confirm or deny this please?

Erm... yes. D6 hits

Oh frikkin marvellous!! So now the Helldrake kills the Venom/Raider itself and the passengers with one shot and doesn't even need to explode the vehicle!

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PostSubject: Re: 7th Changes for Dark Eldar - a review   Fri May 23 2014, 09:44

@Count Adhemar wrote:

Oh frikkin marvellous!! So now the Helldrake kills the Venom/Raider itself and the passengers with one shot and doesn't even need to explode the vehicle!

At S6 AP 3 it will almost never kill the venom or raider with one shot, at least with the baleflamer. The guys inside, well, it's a D6, it might be just 2 or 3. Not great, but still better than exploding. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: 7th Changes for Dark Eldar - a review   Fri May 23 2014, 09:52

@Barking Agatha wrote:
@Count Adhemar wrote:

Oh frikkin marvellous!! So now the Helldrake kills the Venom/Raider itself and the passengers with one shot and doesn't even need to explode the vehicle!

At S6 AP 3 it will almost never kill the venom or raider with one shot, at least with the baleflamer. The guys inside, well, it's a D6, it might be just 2 or 3. Not great, but still better than exploding. Smile

Except it can still explode in addition to all that! As if our troops and transports weren't fragile enough as it was! The only way to keep them safe from a Helldrake was inside a vehicle and now we can't even do that. A Helldrake that can now take out 4 of our units per turn. Vector Strike one transport (and I bet that doesn't get FAQd to go with the nerf to normal Vector Strikes), it explodes taking out 50% of the passengers who then break, then flame another transport, killing most of the passengers and taking out the transport which then explodes taking out the rest of them. Any survivors then break.

Of course we can always stop it with our awesome AA firepower, copious Interceptor fire or if all else fails, a hail of fire from infantry...

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PostSubject: Re: 7th Changes for Dark Eldar - a review   Fri May 23 2014, 10:05

Someone here said that its just false rumor, about template vs open-topped.
I hope so, cuz in other way... well, i`ve got one opponent with FOUR helldrakes. Would be nasty.

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PostSubject: Re: 7th Changes for Dark Eldar - a review   Fri May 23 2014, 10:09

@Count Adhemar wrote:
Except it can still explode in addition to all that! As if our troops and transports weren't fragile enough as it was! The only way to keep them safe from a Helldrake was inside a vehicle and now we can't even do that. A Helldrake that can now take out 4 of our units per turn. Vector Strike one transport (and I bet that doesn't get FAQd to go with the nerf to normal Vector Strikes), it explodes taking out 50% of the passengers who then break, then flame another transport, killing most of the passengers and taking out the transport which then explodes taking out the rest of them. Any survivors then break.

Of course we can always stop it with our awesome AA firepower, copious Interceptor fire or if all else fails, a hail of fire from infantry...

For that to happen, the Heldrake would first need to get a 4+ (S7 plus 4+ for a penetrating hit), followed by a 5+ (5 plus 1 for AP2 plus 1 for open-topped), then flame another transport and get a 4+ for the passengers, a 5+ (for the penetrating hit), and a 6 to make it explode. Surely there are also 1s, 2s, and 3s on those dice!

Not that heldrakes aren't a problem, but it isn't any worse than before, and might actually be a little bit better Smile

@Devilogical wrote:
Someone here said that its just false rumor, about template vs open-topped.

It isn't.
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PostSubject: Re: 7th Changes for Dark Eldar - a review   Fri May 23 2014, 10:15

@Barking Agatha wrote:
@Count Adhemar wrote:
Except it can still explode in addition to all that! As if our troops and transports weren't fragile enough as it was! The only way to keep them safe from a Helldrake was inside a vehicle and now we can't even do that. A Helldrake that can now take out 4 of our units per turn. Vector Strike one transport (and I bet that doesn't get FAQd to go with the nerf to normal Vector Strikes), it explodes taking out 50% of the passengers who then break, then flame another transport, killing most of the passengers and taking out the transport which then explodes taking out the rest of them. Any survivors then break.

Of course we can always stop it with our awesome AA firepower, copious Interceptor fire or if all else fails, a hail of fire from infantry...

For that to happen, the Heldrake would first need to get a 4+ (S7 plus 4+ for a penetrating hit), followed by a 5+ (5 plus 1 for AP2 plus 1 for open-topped), then flame another transport and get a 4+ for the passengers, a 5+ (for the penetrating hit), and a 6 to make it explode. Surely there are also 1s, 2s, and 3s on those dice!

Not when they're rolling against me! Plus they can Hellforge to reroll fails.

Quote :
Not that heldrakes aren't a problem, but it isn't any worse than before, and might actually be a little bit better Smile

IF, and only if, they FAQ the Helldrake to only get 1 Vector Strike attack against non-flyers, then it might be slightly better as there's less chance of destroying the first vehicle. But the change to allow passengers to be flamed will, literally, kill us. We have nowhere to hide and no means of taking the bar steward thing down.

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PostSubject: Re: 7th Changes for Dark Eldar - a review   Fri May 23 2014, 10:43

@Count Adhemar wrote:

IF, and only if, they FAQ the Helldrake to only get 1 Vector Strike attack against non-flyers, then it might be slightly better as there's less chance of destroying the first vehicle.

Why would it need to be FAQ'd? Heldrakes have the Vector Strike special rule. The Vector Strike special rule does what it says it does.

EDIT:

@Count Adhemar wrote:
We have nowhere to hide and no means of taking the bar steward thing down.

It's not that I don't think that we are screwed, it's just that I don't think we're any more screwed than we were yesterday, and maybe even a little bit less Smile
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PostSubject: Re: 7th Changes for Dark Eldar - a review   Fri May 23 2014, 11:05

@Count Adhemar wrote:
@Devilogical wrote:
Even if it so this whole idia with eldar ally in a raider still pretty lame.

Tell that to the Dark Reapers pootling around in a Venom Smile

Or the unit of Wraithguard with doomscythes (flamer weapon) in a raider.
Nasty nasty unit!

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PostSubject: Re: 7th Changes for Dark Eldar - a review   Fri May 23 2014, 11:36

Okay, I did kind of skim, but did I seriously just read there is no area terrain?

Did I also read templates hit units in open topped vehicles?

No changes to ignore cover?

FML what's the point in even playing this army? I have two friends that run multiple furiosos with two template weapons a piece. Another that puts four flamers in drop pods.

I don't care about the heldrake, I can't hide in my boat, I can't hide in cover, I may as well just line all my troops up in a close order formation like it's the 17th century and just exchange volleys until I'm dead.

Also, our boats explode 16% less of the time. Yeah, that's better than it was, but our boats are still death traps. I may be jumping the gun here, but I'm not seeing a glass cannon. I'm seeing a glass glassy thing held together by a glue stick and scotch tape, being held by a toddler throwing a tantrum.

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PostSubject: Re: 7th Changes for Dark Eldar - a review   Fri May 23 2014, 11:40

@Barking Agatha wrote:
@Count Adhemar wrote:

IF, and only if, they FAQ the Helldrake to only get 1 Vector Strike attack against non-flyers, then it might be slightly better as there's less chance of destroying the first vehicle.

Why would it need to be FAQ'd? Heldrakes have the Vector Strike special rule. The Vector Strike special rule does what it says it does.

You're right. I was thinking it was their Meteoric Descent rule that gave them D3+1 attacks, rather than the Vector Strike rule itself. Okay, they're slightly nerfed on that front but, against DE, I still think they're better overall as we no longer have anywhere safe to deploy.


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PostSubject: Re: 7th Changes for Dark Eldar - a review   Fri May 23 2014, 12:10

@Expletive Deleted wrote:

I may be jumping the gun here, but I'm not seeing a glass cannon. I'm seeing a glass glassy thing held together by a glue stick and scotch tape, being held by a toddler throwing a tantrum.

Shredder said somewhere here "we are glass-water-pistol army".
Well, he, probably, correct. Glass-water-pistol... without water in it. New redaction dissapointing me so far... Hope new dex will be here soon.

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PostSubject: Re: 7th Changes for Dark Eldar - a review   Fri May 23 2014, 12:14

So the haemi on the cover of the rulebook is to show which army is getting screwed over the most by the new rules...

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PostSubject: Re: 7th Changes for Dark Eldar - a review   Fri May 23 2014, 12:16

From what I've heard troop dedicated transports now score and also get objective secured if you're battle forged. That's a big boost for venoms and means they don't really need to be used to protect troops anymore. Blaster born and haywire wyches don't have as much choice but warriors and wracks can start outside or in reserve more freely now since they aren't as vital (since more stuff scores). Also it looks like you can take multiple detachments whenever you want: 2 haemies, 11 wracks units in venoms and 6 FF ravagers is under 1850.
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PostSubject: Re: 7th Changes for Dark Eldar - a review   Fri May 23 2014, 12:39

True I guess. I just calculated taking ourselves as allies 2 haemies, 12 3 man wrack units on venoms and 4 ravagers comes in at about 1300 points. I guess at that point you throw in 42 khymera to fill out the rest of the army.

Sounds like a hoot.

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PostSubject: Re: 7th Changes for Dark Eldar - a review   Fri May 23 2014, 13:08

I have a question about the snap-shooting after jink...

Is that just the vehicle that has to snap shot or is it passengers as well? I'm assuming it doesn't affect disembarks/charges the next turn either as that hasn't been mentioned anywhere that I've seen...
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PostSubject: Re: 7th Changes for Dark Eldar - a review   Fri May 23 2014, 13:21

@Expletive Deleted wrote:

FML what's the point in even playing this army?

Let's not exaggerate. Our codex has been out of date since 6th edition began; we've been arguing about that for over a year now, and I think a lot of us are finally catching on to how out of date it is, but it's still a pretty good codex, just a little frayed at the edges, worn out in places, somewhat bleached out, a hole here and there...

@Expletive Deleted wrote:

I don't care about the heldrake, I can't hide in my boat, I can't hide in cover...

Yeah, but that's pretty much how it was yesterday. It's not as if hiding in a transport made you safe. If the heldrake didn't explode it with its D3+1 vector strike, something else would. It's actually a little bit better now, because the heldrake only gets one shot at the raider with its vector strike, and even D6 hits on the passengers is better than the number that usually die in an explosion. It's still terribly overpowered against us, but maybe a little bit less so.

@Expletive Deleted wrote:

Also, our boats explode 16% less of the time. Yeah, that's better than it was, but our boats are still death traps.

Maybe, but slightly less deathy death traps than they were before. It may not be great, but it is better. Besides, we always knew that Dark Eldar were fragile, and that's fine. Just maybe not so fragile that two or three whole units die every turn. Smile

@AvInNebr wrote:
I have a question about the snap-shooting after jink...

Is that just the vehicle that has to snap shot or is it passengers as well? I'm assuming it doesn't affect disembarks/charges the next turn either as that hasn't been mentioned anywhere that I've seen...

It doesn't say anything about the passengers, so I think they can still shoot normally!
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PostSubject: Re: 7th Changes for Dark Eldar - a review   Fri May 23 2014, 14:05



I really don't think it has sunk in to many yet how devastating flamers hitting passengers really is. While we are thinking of ways to send our incubi in on our new harder to destroy raiders, the helldrakes of the world are licking their lips at the thought of toasting our guys alive with no save possible.

Do blasts hit as well? Wait, don't answer me, I don't want to know!

Lets think of some flamer weapons and units in our raiders that will suffer.

Wyches- No saves unless they rolled up a feel no pain. None. nada. against all flamers.

Warriors- Toast as well EXCEPT against Liquifiers that happen to roll a "6"

Wracks/ grots- Toughness boost, but again, only feel no pain.

Incubi- Helldrakes, Doomscythes, that chaos breath thing, liquifiers... the list of pain continues.

And heaven help us if a unit of burna boyz ever even comes CLOSE to an embarked Dark Eldar unit. They don't even need to hurt the vehicle, they will cook our troops inside!

Be prepared to see flamers replace hull weapons on vehicles due to this rule. Dark Eldar, Orks, even marines can be hurt by this.

I am scrambling to think of a decent counter, and the only thing that pops into mind is that new apoc formation, if that is allowed.

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