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Tengu
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PostSubject: Trigger Warnings   Thu May 22 2014, 21:16

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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: Trigger Warnings   Thu May 22 2014, 21:42

I find some of the author's points valid, and others to be pretty silly.

The question of whether they serve any true helpful purpose is certainly debatable - the suggestion that society is suffering by trying to shield the weak is laughable. We have a trigger system in effect here and I, personally, have felt no restriction in my writing, and if people would be happier avoiding it if warned of what it contains, so much the better for us both methinks.

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Lady Malys
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PostSubject: Re: Trigger Warnings   Thu May 22 2014, 22:19

As the person who suggested trigger warnings here, I agree with Thor.

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PostSubject: Re: Trigger Warnings   Thu May 22 2014, 22:22

I too feel no restriction in my writing, but then, I have never written anything extreme.
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PostSubject: Re: Trigger Warnings   Thu May 22 2014, 22:40

I never write to the extreme, only to the X-treme. An 'x' being the most extreme of all letters, followed closely by 'z'.

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PostSubject: Re: Trigger Warnings   Thu May 22 2014, 22:57

I've written extreme things, but only in the violent sense and I've not posted them here. They tend to be based around Incubi and are purely for cathartic reasons. When I read back through them when notin an enraged mood I tend to be shocked.

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PostSubject: Re: Trigger Warnings   Fri May 23 2014, 10:36

I don't see the problem with trigger warnings. Surely they're better for everyone? (unless it ends up a bit health-and-safety-check mad, of course!)
In a PG-13 setting like TDC they're a necessity. In a university? I would agree with them in the case of anything likely to cause or to bring up a traumatic experience for someone, but not for, say, depiction of consensual sex or foul language.
I don't agree with the argument that they're to try and prevent causing offense to someone, but I think that we need to use some common sense to judge whether we're going to cause harm to others- mental or otherwise.
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Barking Agatha
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PostSubject: Re: Trigger Warnings   Fri May 23 2014, 15:08

I don't think they have a problem with trigger warnings per se, as much as with the underlying premise that everyone has a right to never feel uncomfortable. This could affect the discussion of ideas by giving people the right to not hear what they do not want to hear, and worse than that, if I don't like what you are saying for any reason, all I have to do is to say that it makes me uncomfortable and describe you as 'triggering' to make sure that no one listens to you, instead of actually having to debate you.

In order to avoid being given an x-rating, writers, speakers, and teachers would just have to avoid ever saying anything even remotely provocative or controversial, and that would be bad.  
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PostSubject: Re: Trigger Warnings   Fri May 23 2014, 20:11

They are basing that on a presumption that people wouldn't, to use your example, desire to see things that are rated X.

All evidence available points to the contrary.

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Lady Malys
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PostSubject: Re: Trigger Warnings   Fri May 23 2014, 21:13

Quote :
I don't think they have a problem with trigger warnings per se, as much as with the underlying premise that everyone has a right to never feel uncomfortable.

I cannot be held responsible if other people choose to conflate triggering with merely feeling uncomfortable, but I would prefer it if you did not for the purposes of this discussion.

As an aside I would also be a lot less offended by you, personally, BarkingAgatha, if you did not choose to trivialise what happened to me, but you are of course free to state your own views. If I have misunderstood you, feel free to say so too.

Quote :
In a PG-13 setting like TDC they're a necessity. In a university? I would agree with them in the case of anything likely to cause or to bring up a traumatic experience for someone, but not for, say, depiction of consensual sex or foul language.
I don't agree with the argument that they're to try and prevent causing offense to someone, but I think that we need to use some common sense to judge whether we're going to cause harm to others- mental or otherwise.

This seems about right to me. I will briefly explain why. It is a PG-13 setting, and was designated so by the site makers roughly three years ago.

If you (from here on, by 'you' I mean 'a person') look at my original request for trigger warnings, I have very calmly and sensibly asked for them for informational purposes, so that people can make a clear, informed choice about what they read.

At no point did I make a call for content to be banned.

I did not ask for censorship.

I even said that a person might be able to use these content warnings as a means to search positively for what they contained. Example: "It's been a long day at work today! A read of some really gory fighting will wash the strain away - now where is that story with the battle ..." and so forth. I personally can find a good battle cathartic. Now I have an easy means to find one, if I want it.

No-one is being being asked to censor themselves by this. They are being asked to be adult and sensible and empathetic enough to make the responsible choice to inform potential readers of the kind of story they might wish to read, or to avoid. It is functionally no different from organising books in a library into sections: Horror, Erotica, Science Fiction and so on. But as a story may have several themes, this is a more informative method without having subsections proliferating on the site. It takes moments.

The other point, of course, is that the rules of this site - to which every user must sign up and agree - state the level of content that will be found here. So a person would usually, and reasonably, know what to expect, just by seeing these rules. These rules, for the record, do not state "except for the fiction section".

I, as I so often state in jest, do not make the rules.

The fiction section has never been called to abide by these rules. And I did not respond by trying to make it so.

Rather than tell anyone not to write the stories they want to write, I asked for a means by which anyone could tell that some stories were not going to match the site rules, rather than taking a lucky guess that they would be followed. This is the polar opposite of trying to get stories censored.

I am not trying to prevent anyone from having their fun. I am asking for the training-wheels level of responsibility to be honest and up front about it and tell people first.

If someone has a problem with informed choice, then the problem runs far deeper than a dislike of trigger warnings.

I have stated what I feel eloquently enough in the first thread that I do not wish to debate it more here, but I could not just let this stand as it was clearly aimed squarely at my head.

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Barking Agatha
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PostSubject: Re: Trigger Warnings   Fri May 23 2014, 21:37

Oh, absolutely. I was only explaining what I think was the point of that article. Their conclusion is debatable but they do have a point, in that people can often take a good idea too far.

EDIT: Lady Malys, I did not mean to imply that I have a problem with trigger warnings on this site. Certainly I get up to all sorts of things in my writing that I would not consider appropriate for everyone. I didn't even realise we were in the 'Stories and Art' section, I just checked on 'Posts since your last visit' and went, 'Oh, that's interesting'. A thousand sorries!  Sad 
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Lady Malys
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PostSubject: Re: Trigger Warnings   Fri May 23 2014, 22:24

Apology accepted, Barking Agatha, thank you for responding to correct my misperception for me. It's good to know we are on the same page Smile

All things can be played out to extremes by fools, but I think that we are thankfully as short on fools here as we are long on talent.

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PostSubject: Re: Trigger Warnings   Sat May 24 2014, 04:49

Just to repeat, I completely missed the subtext of the conversation. I thought we were just chatting about modern culture for no particular reason, and I should have known better. I think maybe I'll be quiet for a good long time now, while I go and hide my head in a bucket!  Sad
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PostSubject: Re: Trigger Warnings   Sat May 24 2014, 17:15

Please don't do that - too many of us are waiting to know what Meeran will do next Smile

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