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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Power from Pain   Sun May 18 2014, 21:22

If we get a new book, are there any changes you would like see made to the 'Power from Pain' rule?
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Deamon
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PostSubject: Re: Power from Pain   Sun May 18 2014, 21:48

I would like for vehicules to award pain token when they're destroyed. This would make PFP useful against mechanized lists.
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ligolski
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PostSubject: Re: Power from Pain   Sun May 18 2014, 21:54

I'd like certainly units to actually start with a pain token...especially the Talos and Cronos...just because they need that FNP so badly.

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Silverglade
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PostSubject: Re: Power from Pain   Mon May 19 2014, 00:11

I would vote for us getting a better FNP. Nothing crazy. Just back to the old rules of 4+

I REALLY don't think that will happen.

Sooooo. What do I realistically think we could see? If you look at what they did with IB for nids, they'll likely screw us. LOL so i would vote to at least not make it worse!.

I find that the furious charge is not a big deal, and I so rarely get a unit to 3 Pain tokens anyways, that it isn't such a big deal. So something better at the level 2 and level 3 would be good.
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Expletive Deleted
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PostSubject: Re: Power from Pain   Mon May 19 2014, 00:50

Make vehicles count would be a huge improvement. Either that or make it a universal buff with slightly worse effects. I.E. remove one unit your army gets a 6+ feel no pain, and it improves with each subsequent unit. Of course that would probably be overpowered and never happen. As it is, I only find power from pain really useful when I roll a 6 on the combat drug chart.

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Barking Agatha
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PostSubject: Re: Power from Pain   Mon May 19 2014, 07:11

I would make pain tokens more versatile and easier to get, but disposable. For example, instead of getting a pain token only when you destroy a unit, you get one every time your unit causes one or more unsaved wounds or hull points on a vehicle. Then, at any time, you may spend a pain token to receive a variety of effects, including FNP, Furious Charge, and Fearless, but also Hatred, Stealth, Shrouded, Twin-Linked, etc. Maybe if you spend two pain tokens you could improve your FNP to (4+), or even spend three to improve it to FNP (3+).

Also, maybe there could be equipment that is fueled by pain tokens, so that you could spend a pain token to resurrect a dead character, or re-roll a failed save, or make an attack Instant Death. I dunno, that sort of thing?
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Dragontree
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PostSubject: Re: Power from Pain   Mon May 19 2014, 07:22

@Barking Agatha wrote:
I would make pain tokens more versatile and easier to get, but disposable. For example, instead of getting a pain token only when you destroy a unit, you get one every time your unit causes one or more unsaved wounds or hull points on a vehicle. Then, at any time, you may spend a pain token to receive a variety of effects, including FNP, Furious Charge, and Fearless, but also Hatred, Stealth, Shrouded, Twin-Linked, etc. Maybe if you spend two pain tokens you could improve your FNP to (4+), or even spend three to improve it to FNP (3+).

Also, maybe there could be equipment that is fueled by pain tokens, so that you could spend a pain token to resurrect a dead character, or re-roll a failed save, or make an attack Instant Death. I dunno, that sort of thing?

This. I like this a lot. Great sounding mechanic and sounds in keeping with their tactical/fluid dynamic approach to 7th
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Devilogical
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PostSubject: Re: Power from Pain   Mon May 19 2014, 08:47

@Silverglade wrote:
I would vote for us getting a better FNP.  Nothing crazy.  Just back to the old rules of 4+

I REALLY don't think that will happen.

I hope it won`t come. Cuz if it will be - FNP will lost it`s ability to make trows agains power weapon, dangerous terrain etc.
5+ from everything, beyond Instant death is FAR BETTER, then a simple 4+ against usual CCW or enemy fire.

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Power from Pain   Mon May 19 2014, 09:17

@Devilogical wrote:
@Silverglade wrote:
I would vote for us getting a better FNP.  Nothing crazy.  Just back to the old rules of 4+

I REALLY don't think that will happen.

I hope it won`t come. Cuz if it will be - FNP will lost it`s ability to make trows agains power weapon, dangerous terrain etc.
5+ from everything, beyond Instant death is FAR BETTER, then a simple 4+ against usual CCW or enemy fire.

I think Silverglade just wanted the actual value of the FNP ability to go back to 4+, not have all the old rules back, which were indeed worse for us than the 6e version.

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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Power from Pain   Mon May 19 2014, 12:31

@Expletive Deleted wrote:
As it is, I only find power from pain really useful when I roll a 6 on the combat drug chart.

I'd also add Haemonculi pain tokens to that, but I definitely know what you mean. Usually I find that, if I manage to get a pain token at all, it's always on a unit that already had one (and, since I play shooting armies, any pain tokens after the first tend to be redundant).

@Barking Agatha wrote:
I would make pain tokens more versatile and easier to get, but disposable. For example, instead of getting a pain token only when you destroy a unit, you get one every time your unit causes one or more unsaved wounds or hull points on a vehicle. Then, at any time, you may spend a pain token to receive a variety of effects, including FNP, Furious Charge, and Fearless, but also Hatred, Stealth, Shrouded, Twin-Linked, etc. Maybe if you spend two pain tokens you could improve your FNP to (4+), or even spend three to improve it to FNP (3+).

Also, maybe there could be equipment that is fueled by pain tokens, so that you could spend a pain token to resurrect a dead character, or re-roll a failed save, or make an attack Instant Death. I dunno, that sort of thing?

That's a really interesting idea. Out of interest though, when you spend a pain token would the entire unit get the benefit - or would you have to spend one pain token per model?

@Devilogical wrote:
I hope it won`t come. Cuz if it will be - FNP will lost it`s ability to make trows agains power weapon, dangerous terrain etc.
5+ from everything, beyond Instant death is FAR BETTER, then a simple 4+ against usual CCW or enemy fire.

Not really.

In my experience, there aren't many things the new FNP protects us against that the old FNP wouldn't have as well. Protection against Ap1/2 rarely matters because such weapons are frequently S6+ anyway - and so deny FNP by virtue of being double-toughness.

On the other hand, we're now more vulnerable to small-arms fire, blasts/flamers, exploding vehicles etc.

Although, the new FNP is a lot better for our MCs. It makes me wish we had better MCs...  Rolling Eyes 
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Barking Agatha
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PostSubject: Re: Power from Pain   Mon May 19 2014, 18:42

@The Shredder wrote:
@Barking Agatha wrote:
I would make pain tokens more versatile and easier to get, but disposable. For example, instead of getting a pain token only when you destroy a unit, you get one every time your unit causes one or more unsaved wounds or hull points on a vehicle. Then, at any time, you may spend a pain token to receive a variety of effects, including FNP, Furious Charge, and Fearless, but also Hatred, Stealth, Shrouded, Twin-Linked, etc. Maybe if you spend two pain tokens you could improve your FNP to (4+), or even spend three to improve it to FNP (3+).

Also, maybe there could be equipment that is fueled by pain tokens, so that you could spend a pain token to resurrect a dead character, or re-roll a failed save, or make an attack Instant Death. I dunno, that sort of thing?

That's a really interesting idea. Out of interest though, when you spend a pain token would the entire unit get the benefit - or would you have to spend one pain token per model?

The entire unit, of course! Just as it is now, except that the pain token is spent. And you choose which benefit you get when you spend it. And there would be more benefits to choose from. And you get pain tokens every time you wound things.

And pain tokens could also be used to fuel certain pieces of equipment. For example:

Agoniser, S: As user, AP3, poisoned(4+), or spend a pain token to change its profile to S: As user, AP2, posioned (3+).

In that case, only the model armed with that particular piece of equipment receives the benefit.

Or Port-a-pod (Haemonculus only): Not useable in combat. Spend a pain token at the beginning of your Assault phase to restore an Independent Character killed earlier in the battle to life with full wounds.

In that case obviously only the restored character gains the benefit. Smile
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Dethdispenser
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PostSubject: Re: Power from Pain   Mon May 19 2014, 18:49

This may be the mechanic we are looking for. A modified version of Power from Pain. That is essentially our Psycher phase.
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Power from Pain   Mon May 19 2014, 18:57

@Barking Agatha wrote:

The entire unit, of course! Just as it is now, except that the pain token is spent. And you choose which benefit you get when you spend it. And there would be more benefits to choose from. And you get pain tokens every time you wound things.

Splendid, just thought I'd check.

@Barking Agatha wrote:

And pain tokens could also be used to fuel certain pieces of equipment. For example:

Agoniser, S: As user, AP3, poisoned(4+), or spend a pain token to change its profile to S: As user, AP2, posioned (3+).

In that case, only the model armed with that particular piece of equipment receives the benefit.

Or Port-a-pod (Haemonculus only): Not useable in combat. Spend a pain token at the beginning of your Assault phase to restore an Independent Character killed earlier in the battle to life with full wounds.

In that case obviously only the restored character gains the benefit. Smile

I wish I hadn't read this.

Now I'll inevitably be disappointed when I read the actual Power from Pain mechanic.  Crying or Very sad 
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Barking Agatha
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PostSubject: Re: Power from Pain   Mon May 19 2014, 19:30

Dare to dream Smile
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Devilogical
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PostSubject: Re: Power from Pain   Mon May 19 2014, 19:45

@Dethdispenser wrote:
This may be the mechanic we are looking for. A modified version of Power from Pain. That is essentially our Psycher phase.

100%

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