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 Daemonic summoning

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goofydk
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PostSubject: Daemonic summoning   Tue May 13 2014, 10:13

Hey guys!

A friend of mine forwarded this to me. New psychic powers for Chaos. It does seems a bit OP if it is true. Many rumours going around now, anyone heard anything about the new psychic phase?

https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/t31.0-8/p843x403/10333547_10152489684194954_3873038486156362195_o.jpg

goofydk
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Daemonic summoning   Tue May 13 2014, 10:18

Moved to Warhammer 40,000 Discussion as not DE-related - Count Adhemar

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D34m0nSp4wn
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PostSubject: Re: Daemonic summoning   Tue May 13 2014, 10:41

It seems ridiculously OP unless the phase is changed to make it much harder to get those powers off, or much much easier to deny the witch.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Daemonic summoning   Tue May 13 2014, 11:09

Rumours are that you roll as many dice as you wish (up to your maximum) to cast a power and need a 4+ for every warp charge that the power costs. Opponents can use their own dice to dispel, needing a 6+ (with +1 per mastery level of the dispeller). Given the high warp charge cost of most of the summoning powers, if this is true then it will be quite hard to get any of those powers off more than once or twice per battle.

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D34m0nSp4wn
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PostSubject: Re: Daemonic summoning   Tue May 13 2014, 11:20

Is that needing a total of 6+? So you could reliably 2 dice deny the witch roles?

Personally I don't know why they seem to be reinventing the wheel with the Psychic phase mechanics, the WFB magic mechanics seem to work fine to me and could just be reused.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Daemonic summoning   Tue May 13 2014, 11:37

@D34m0nSp4wn wrote:
Is that needing a total of 6+? So you could reliably 2 dice deny the witch roles?

You need a total of 6+ on any one die, not the total of all dice.

Allegedly.

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D34m0nSp4wn
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PostSubject: Re: Daemonic summoning   Tue May 13 2014, 11:53

That's fine if you have psykers but completely OP if you don't as you will effectively have to use all of your dice ( seeing as you will have between 1 and 6) in order to statistically be confident of at least one 6+ roll. Net result is that you get to attempt to deny a single power per turn. If your enemy takes two psykers at level 3 they could potentially have 12 dice to play with. They are unlikely to need more dice that the warp charge cost, but conservatively could get away with warp charge cost + 1 extra dice which would enable them to cast three warp charge 3 powers per turn of which you get to choose one to try and deny.

All the rant/ramble boils down to the fundemental flaw in that proposed/rumoured system that there is no inherent linkage between the difficulty to deny and the difficulty to cast which makes it very very very broken against any non-psychic race.

The only way that can be rectified is to provide DE/TAU with options for anti-pysker equipment that increases our mastery for the purposes of denying, however that will then become an auto include that effectively reduces our overall available points as it wouldn't bring anything additional to the table unlike enemy psykers who can shoot and assault etc.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Daemonic summoning   Tue May 13 2014, 12:07

@D34m0nSp4wn wrote:
That's fine if you have psykers but completely OP if you don't as you will effectively have to use all of your dice ( seeing as you will have between 1 and 6)  in order to statistically be confident of at least one 6+ roll. Net result is that you get to attempt to deny a single power per turn. If your enemy takes two psykers at level 3 they could potentially have 12 dice to play with. They are unlikely to need more dice that the warp charge cost, but conservatively could get away with warp charge cost + 1 extra dice which would enable them to cast three warp charge 3 powers per turn of which you get to choose one to try and deny.

Assuming what I've read is correct I don't agree with what you're saying. Two ML3 Psykers would have 7-12 warp charges to play with. With 4+ required for each WC of the power, statistically you need twice as many dice as the WC cost of the power you're casting. So, at best, they would be able to cast 6 WC1 powers, 3 WC2 powers or 2 WC3 powers per turn. That's not really any different to what they can do now and, if those powers are blessings, you would not have any ability at all to Deny them. At least with the rumoured changes you could attempt to Deny one or two of those powers even if you have no Psykers of your own.

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D34m0nSp4wn
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PostSubject: Re: Daemonic summoning   Tue May 13 2014, 12:56

The rumour I had read included the mastery level bonus for casting, which I notice now you hadn't included in yours. Not including that would definitely be an improvement. Even so my point still stands that there is inherent imbalance caused by not having a link between the difficulty of casting and the difficulty of denying.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Daemonic summoning   Tue May 13 2014, 12:58

I agree. I can't see that needing 4+ to cast and adding your mastery level would make sense though. Any of the 'big guys', like Ahriman, Eldrad etc would be casting automatically and even a ML2 psyker is going on a 2+.

Hoping that the rumours are wrong or that we're missing something as this seems a bit of a mess.

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D34m0nSp4wn
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PostSubject: Re: Daemonic summoning   Tue May 13 2014, 13:01

I had assumed that a 1 was still going to be a fail no matter what but it still sounded OP to me.
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