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 New Psycher Phase - How will Dark Eldar match up

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Creeping Darkness
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PostSubject: Re: New Psycher Phase - How will Dark Eldar match up   Mon May 19 2014, 10:05

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Plenty of armies are now capable of upwards of 30 mastery levels all the way to over 40. Then add that d6.

The rules may well allow you to take more psykers, but it doesn't change the fact that each psyker is less able to manifest psychic powers than before.

If someone brings 40 mastery levels to a game of 7ed, then they are looking at getting no more than 20 off successfully in any given phase, on average, and substantially less if there are any powers requiring two or more warp charge. The same army in 6ed would comfortably manifest 30 powers, or more if the psykers have better Ld or other buff wargear.

Moreover, taking more than 4 or so mastery levels is subject to diminishing returns. All those free primaris powers those ML 1 psykers get? Wasted, because there are no spare dice to cast them.

Sure, you can't deny everything anymore against that sort of army, but you never could. Now at least you can have a crack at denying blessings, often the most effective powers. I'd call that a draw at worst.

I'll grant that if someone wants a psychic battery generating a huge amount of dice simply to make sure that one or two powers go off (or quash any opposition psychic phase), there's not going to be any stopping them.

And I'll grant that psykers may compare favourably with wizards in warhammer. I don't know, I haven't played Fantasy, so I don't know how badly broken Vampire Counts were.

But this isn't about if psykers are better or worse than wizards in fantasy. It's about whether they are better or worse than they were in 6ed.

The fact that unbound armies can take whatever they want, including unlimited psykers, is an entirely separate issue. Me, I'd rather load up on something that didn't get nerfed.

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PostSubject: Re: New Psycher Phase - How will Dark Eldar match up   Mon May 19 2014, 10:11

Oddly if someone really spams psykers then it will improve the effectiveness of the crucible. I doubt it will ever be good or anything but if some is taking like a bunch of psykers you may actually make your points back with it.
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PostSubject: Re: New Psycher Phase - How will Dark Eldar match up   Mon May 19 2014, 10:26

Creeping Darkness wrote:
Quote :
Plenty of armies are now capable of upwards of 30 mastery levels all the way to over 40. Then add that d6.

The rules may well allow you to take more psykers, but it doesn't change the fact that each psyker is less able to manifest psychic powers than before.

That won't really matter though as most of the low level psykers will be there simply to provide bonus warp charges or to be sacrificed to summon massive amounts of daemons.

Quote :
If someone brings 40 mastery levels to a game of 7ed, then they are looking at getting no more than 20 off successfully in any given phase, on average, and substantially less if there are any powers requiring two or more warp charge. The same army in 6ed would comfortably manifest 30 powers, or more if the psykers have better Ld or other buff wargear.

Seriously, how many psychic powers were ever cast in a turn in 6e? Probably half a dozen at most? Now you can pretty much guarantee getting all those powers off with zero chance of being dispelled simply by throwing more dice at it than your opponent has available to dispel.

Quote :
Moreover, taking more than 4 or so mastery levels is subject to diminishing returns. All those free primaris powers those ML 1 psykers get? Wasted, because there are no spare dice to cast them.


You'll still have plenty of dice to throw. Let's take an example - DE vs CWE Seerstar. With 2 Farseers and 8 Warlocks for a combined ML of 14, so not even anywhere near the 40 that was mentioned above.

Roll a d6 in the Psychic Phase, get a 5.

The DE army will have 5 Warp Charges and the Eldar will have 19.

Each Warlock automatically has Conceal as well as another random power so they can just cast that with one dice until it goes off, with no chance of perils. And then do the same with Protect. Say that takes 4 dice from their pool. That leaves them with 15 charges to get off whatever powers the Farseers want to cast, which should be enough to cast 3 WC2 and a WC1 power. Or they can throw extra dice at a couple of powers to force them through. Let's say they really want Fortune to go off so they throw 6 dice at it, statistically getting 3 successes (although possibly also a Perils - we don't know how Ghost Helms work yet). The DE player then needs to get 2 6's from a maximum of 5 dice to deny the power. Unlikely! Even if it is denied, the Eldar still have 9 dice to use with nothing to fear from DE dispels. Enough for a couple of WC2 powers and maybe a WC1 if they're lucky.

I think armies with strong psykers will be even stronger in 7e and armies with no psykers will be very, very much worse off.

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PostSubject: Re: New Psycher Phase - How will Dark Eldar match up   Mon May 19 2014, 11:11

Count Adhemar wrote:

Each Warlock automatically has Conceal as well as another random power so they can just cast that with one dice until it goes off, with no chance of perils. And then do the same with Protect. Say that takes 4 dice from their pool. That leaves them with 15 charges to get off whatever powers the Farseers want to cast, which should be enough to cast 3 WC2 and a WC1 power. Or they can throw extra dice at a couple of powers to force them through. Let's say they really want Fortune to go off so they throw 6 dice at it, statistically getting 3 successes...

What would stop them from doing that now, in 6th?

At least in 7th you'll have 5 dice for a chance at preventing at least one of them.
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PostSubject: Re: New Psycher Phase - How will Dark Eldar match up   Mon May 19 2014, 11:23

There's nothing to stop them in 6e and still nothing to stop them in 7e, as you'll still have effectively zero chance of stopping anything a strong psyker army actually wants to cast. Which I why I'm puzzled by comments that psykers are being nerfed. On the information available to us, they aren't! We're also presented with our new Alien Daemonic Overlords, the new and improved Fateweaver Flying Circus. Daemons only taking perils on 6's when using Malefic powers seems to be the green light for Daemon 40k where Fateweaver brings as many minimum size units of Horrors as possible and then uses them to summon more Horrors. Any units that get whittled down to the last 1 or 2 daemons are then sacrificed to summon a Lord of Change who then summons more Horrors and so on and so forth. If the days of Tervigons spawning unending swarms of Termagants were bad, this is worse!

Do you think Daemons weren't selling well or something?

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PostSubject: Re: New Psycher Phase - How will Dark Eldar match up   Mon May 19 2014, 12:53

Quote :
Now you can pretty much guarantee getting all those powers off with zero chance of being dispelled simply by throwing more dice at it than your opponent has available to dispel.

If you don't mind the rest of your psykers not doing anything, sure. Seems an expensive way to make something work to me, especially when in 6ed it mainly just worked for no extra charge.

(Sorry about the non-author quoting, am on my phone and can't remember the tags Sad )

Quote :
You'll still have plenty of dice to throw

You'll have more powers than dice. That's my point - you'll not be able to cast everything. And given also that the absolute best case is 50% of your dice translating into successfully cast powers, you will be lucky to get off even half of the powers that you have.

Do the freebie powers and ability to choose to increase the power of certain spells increase the versatility of the average psyker? Absolutely they do, and that is a massive benefit. But I don't think it makes up for the loss of powers successfully cast per phase.

It's not denying that will stop powers from going off. It's going to be a rarity for us to deny more than one or two powers per game. What is stopping the powers being successfully cast is the lack of dice, and the difficulty of success. Since to get better odds of a successful cast you need more dice, if you choose to do so you get fewer attempts to cast.

Perils is another factor; admittedly, I'm assuming it will be bad enough to act as some kind of deterrent, which it may not. But given Perils... throwing six dice has over a 25% chance of perils. Since it triggers on 6s, that mostly comes out of otherwise successful casts. In fact it's counter productive to throw more than 4 dice on a two dice power, due to the higher risk of perils.

Those summoning spells, that everyone is worried about? At warp charge 3, throwing six dice has a 42% chance of succeeding without perils, and then only if you are already a demon and only suffering perils on a double 6. If you have even one deny dice available (likely!), that drops to 38%.

So say a demon army wants to play matryoshka? Maybe it starts with about 18 dice from 14 or 15 ML... In two turns it might get three spells cast successfully, and Perils twice. I reckon we can handle that.

Bear in mind that all of these unbound super-psyker armies are getting their ridiculous ML counts by taking fewer guns. Given equal points expenditure in either, I'd much rather face the psykers than the guns. At least guns work more or less the way you want them too.

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Do you think Daemons weren't selling well or something?

On that, we agree Smile

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PostSubject: Re: New Psycher Phase - How will Dark Eldar match up   Mon May 19 2014, 13:13

Creeping Darkness wrote:
Quote :
Now you can pretty much guarantee getting all those powers off with zero chance of being dispelled simply by throwing more dice at it than your opponent has available to dispel.

If you don't mind the rest of your psykers not doing anything, sure. Seems an expensive way to make something work to me, especially when in 6ed it mainly just worked for no extra charge.

The other psykers don't need to do anything. They are there to provide warp charges. Nothing else.

Quote :
Quote :
You'll still have plenty of dice to throw

You'll have more powers than dice. That's my point - you'll not be able to cast everything. And given also that the absolute best case is 50% of your dice translating into successfully cast powers, you will be lucky to get off even half of the powers that you have.

As I said above, when did an army cast more than half a dozen powers per turn in 6e? Seestar was probably the one that needed to cast the most and they had 3 spells they really needed to get off and 10 psykers to cast them.

Quote :
Do the freebie powers and ability to choose to increase the power of certain spells increase the versatility of the average psyker? Absolutely they do, and that is a massive benefit. But I don't think it makes up for the loss of powers successfully cast per phase.

Again, you're not losing out on the number of powers successfully cast. If anything, that is increasing! The only thing you 'lose' on is the percentage of available powers, and that is a pretty meaningless stat.

Quote :
It's not denying that will stop powers from going off. It's going to be a rarity for us to deny more than one or two powers per game. What is stopping the powers being successfully cast is the lack of dice, and the difficulty of success. Since to get better odds of a successful cast you need more dice, if you choose to do so you get fewer attempts to cast.


See above. There will be no lack of dice for psyker-heavy armies. Plus, having lots of dice is a double whammy as not only do you get to cast all of your powers you also get to stop anyone else from doing so.

Quote :
Perils is another factor; admittedly, I'm assuming it will be bad enough to act as some kind of deterrent, which it may not. But given Perils... throwing six dice has over a 25% chance of perils. Since it triggers on 6s, that mostly comes out of otherwise successful casts. In fact it's counter productive to throw more than 4 dice on a two dice power, due to the higher risk of perils.

Those summoning spells, that everyone is worried about? At warp charge 3, throwing six dice has a 42% chance of succeeding without perils, and then only if you are already a demon and only suffering perils on a double 6. If you have even one deny dice available (likely!), that drops to 38%.

Perils will be worked around by sacrificing models in a unit with Brotherhood of Psykers. Either that or you simply swap your 100 point psyker for a 230 point Lord of Change.

Quote :
So say a demon army wants to play matryoshka? Maybe it starts with about 18 dice from 14 or 15 ML... In two turns it might get three spells cast successfully, and Perils twice. I reckon we can handle that.


I really think you're underestimating the ability, particularly of daemons, to get spells off successfully. Also, the chain effect of summoning creatures who can in turn summon more creatures.

Quote :
Bear in mind that all of these unbound super-psyker armies are getting their ridiculous ML counts by taking fewer guns. Given equal points expenditure in either, I'd much rather face the psykers than the guns. At least guns work more or less the way you want them too.

The difference is that these units get stronger as the game goes on. By the end of turn 2 you could easily be facing a daemon army with several hundred points more than you.


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PostSubject: Re: New Psycher Phase - How will Dark Eldar match up   Mon May 19 2014, 13:53

Count Adhemar wrote:
Creeping Darkness wrote:
Quote :
Now you can pretty much guarantee getting all those powers off with zero chance of being dispelled simply by throwing more dice at it than your opponent has available to dispel.

If you don't mind the rest of your psykers not doing anything, sure. Seems an expensive way to make something work to me, especially when in 6ed it mainly just worked for no extra charge.

The other psykers don't need to do anything. They are there to provide warp charges. Nothing else.  

Quote :
Quote :
You'll still have plenty of dice to throw

You'll have more powers than dice. That's my point - you'll not be able to cast everything. And given also that the absolute best case is 50% of your dice translating into successfully cast powers, you will be lucky to get off even half of the powers that you have.

As I said above, when did an army cast more than half a dozen powers per turn in 6e? Seestar was probably the one that needed to cast the most and they had 3 spells they really needed to get off and 10 psykers to cast them.

Quote :
Do the freebie powers and ability to choose to increase the power of certain spells increase the versatility of the average psyker? Absolutely they do, and that is a massive benefit. But I don't think it makes up for the loss of powers successfully cast per phase.

Again, you're not losing out on the number of powers successfully cast. If anything, that is increasing! The only thing you 'lose' on is the percentage of available powers, and that is a pretty meaningless stat.

Quote :
It's not denying that will stop powers from going off. It's going to be a rarity for us to deny more than one or two powers per game. What is stopping the powers being successfully cast is the lack of dice, and the difficulty of success. Since to get better odds of a successful cast you need more dice, if you choose to do so you get fewer attempts to cast.


See above. There will be no lack of dice for psyker-heavy armies. Plus, having lots of dice is a double whammy as not only do you get to cast all of your powers you also get to stop anyone else from doing so.

Quote :
Perils is another factor; admittedly, I'm assuming it will be bad enough to act as some kind of deterrent, which it may not. But given Perils... throwing six dice has over a 25% chance of perils. Since it triggers on 6s, that mostly comes out of otherwise successful casts. In fact it's counter productive to throw more than 4 dice on a two dice power, due to the higher risk of perils.

Those summoning spells, that everyone is worried about? At warp charge 3, throwing six dice has a 42% chance of succeeding without perils, and then only if you are already a demon and only suffering perils on a double 6. If you have even one deny dice available (likely!), that drops to 38%.

Perils will be worked around by sacrificing models in a unit with Brotherhood of Psykers. Either that or you simply swap your 100 point psyker for a 230 point Lord of Change.

Quote :
So say a demon army wants to play matryoshka? Maybe it starts with about 18 dice from 14 or 15 ML... In two turns it might get three spells cast successfully, and Perils twice. I reckon we can handle that.


I really think you're underestimating the ability, particularly of daemons, to get spells off successfully. Also, the chain effect of summoning creatures who can in turn summon more creatures.

Quote :
Bear in mind that all of these unbound super-psyker armies are getting their ridiculous ML counts by taking fewer guns. Given equal points expenditure in either, I'd much rather face the psykers than the guns. At least guns work more or less the way you want them too.

The difference is that these units get stronger as the game goes on. By the end of turn 2 you could easily be facing a daemon army with several hundred points more than you.


To be honest, NO ONE knows what perils will do to a psyker or his unit. We know its a table and its been said by the development team to be nasty if you fail. Furthermore, if you ever fail a power its rumored to end the use of the power for the game...is that true? Who knows. However, what I do believe these two ideas bring forth is the idea that we just don't know everything about the psychic phase yet...a lot of details are missing that ultimately mean a lot. GW has said its MUCH more tactical than before, and by your description of the phase count it doesn't seem all that tactical at all...so this leads me to believe that we are missing a important puzzle.  

Also I'm curious where you heard/read that daemons only perils on 6's with the malefic powers, I had only read that people perils on ANY doubles! Ultimately, the summoning spells shown generally require a whole bunch of warp charges to be successfully cast...this will be harder than a leadership check while also considering that perils could blow up a unit for all we know.

edit:
Also we don't know the other table for daemonology...it could smote daemons right off the battlefield with ease for all we know, acting as a balance against daemon spam.

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: New Psycher Phase - How will Dark Eldar match up   Mon May 19 2014, 14:03

ligolski wrote:
To be honest, NO ONE knows what perils will do to a psyker or his unit. We know its a table and its been said by the development team to be nasty if you fail. Furthermore, if you ever fail a power its rumored to end the use of the power for the game...is that true? Who knows. However, what I do believe these two ideas bring forth is the idea that we just don't know everything about the psychic phase yet...a lot of details are missing that ultimately mean a lot. GW has said its MUCH more tactical than before, and by your description of the phase count it doesn't seem all that tactical at all...so this leads me to believe that we are missing a important puzzle.  

Also I'm curious where you heard/read that daemons only perils on 6's with the malefic powers, I had only read that people perils on ANY doubles! Ultimately, the summoning spells shown generally require a whole bunch of warp charges to be successfully cast...this will be harder than a leadership check while also considering that perils could blow up a unit for all we know.

edit:
Also we don't know the other table for daemonology...it could smote daemons right off the battlefield with ease for all we know, acting as a balance against daemon spam.

The bit about daemonology perils is on the GW website here. Basically anyone other than a Daemon suffers perils on any roll of a double when casting Malefic powers. For Sanctic powers, it's anything other than Grey Knights, which does lead me to believe that there will be anti-daemon powers in there, probably similar to those in the GK codex.

You are right however in that we do not yet have the full picture. I'll be very surprised though, given what we do know, if psyker heavy armies do not get stronger in 7e.

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PostSubject: Re: New Psycher Phase - How will Dark Eldar match up   Mon May 19 2014, 14:07

I guess one nice thing is that we perhaps have less to fear from summoned Bloodthirsters than most.

"Oh no - not toughness 6! How can we possibly defeat... SPLINTER WEAPONS AWAAAAY!"

(There's my monthly Optimism Quota satisfied.)
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PostSubject: Re: New Psycher Phase - How will Dark Eldar match up   Mon May 19 2014, 14:09

I'll be curious to see, given that the psychic phase happens after the movement phase, whether a summoned FMC can arrive in Swooping mode.

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PostSubject: Re: New Psycher Phase - How will Dark Eldar match up   Mon May 19 2014, 14:31

Count Adhemar wrote:
I'll be curious to see, given that the psychic phase happens after the movement phase, whether a summoned FMC can arrive in Swooping mode.

Guess it will help my Hemlock to do more terror on the battlefield  Smile 

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PostSubject: Re: New Psycher Phase - How will Dark Eldar match up   Mon May 19 2014, 16:56

Count Adhemar brings up many of the aspects I too believe potentially increase the power level of psykers significantly. One of the biggest is the dice pool mechanic. Some of us have seen this play out before and what basically happens is the lesser psykers feed the more powerful ones to ensure the highest power spells are all cast rather than having to choose due to the individual psykers mastery level restriction. Its almost like prescience in the sense of force multiplication. The phase strongly encourages participation to compete.

I wasnt pleased when I first read of the phase but im warming to the idea and either way I have no problem finding ways to exist within the system. Im just predicting psykers to be even more powerful and prevalent than in 6th. I do think its likely though that GW has changed prescience from the primaris power of divination, if C:AM is any indication.  

I do think though that some are seeing the psychic phase as a straight nerf to things like fortune powered deathstars when this is only really true IF you invest in significant psychic defense. Multiple chances at rolling 6 is better than current, for some, but still not what id call reliable banking on your opponents roll of a d6 (random = bad). Granted fortune as it stands is not that easy to stop now for some but keep in mind there are 6th edition counters if people choose to invest in them, such as talisman of arthas moloch, rune priests, Ld debuffs etc although for most this requires allies.

What has really changed is the limit on a particular psyker. They have become far more versatile with the controller able to put the power where he needs it instead of wasting a little per psyker. This type of system lends itself to 'more is better' even more so than now.
As a player that uses spiritstones of anathlan extensively I can attest to the value of being able to slang multiple 'value' powers. For example, being able to reduce ML costs to cast fortune, mind war and hallucination all from one guy is ridiculous. The new system is essentially like a blanket spiritstones. Let that sink in for a second.
Consider a similar ML 3 psyker with puppet master, hallucination and invisibility. Nasty sucker and currently capable of throwing 2 of the 3. In 7th all 3 can be cast by virtue of his buddies dice, plus the primaris power will be an extra. Now consider the power level of the one lore we have seen.

All that said I really do like what the change does for CSM even if it is not the fix they need, it is still quite a boost. Nids I believe will get a decent boost as well.  DoC otoh are going to be a problem.

Ultimately we need more information before we freak out but from where I sit it looks like 7th edition is gearing up to be the age of the psyker.
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PostSubject: Re: New Psycher Phase - How will Dark Eldar match up   Mon May 19 2014, 23:42

Count Adhemar wrote:
Again, you're not losing out on the number of powers successfully cast. If anything, that is increasing!

If you are keeping the number of powers successfully cast or static, then unless you were in the habit of running a whole pile of pointless caddies, you will be investing more points to do so.

Granted, Jetseer-stars may have been running pointless warlocks purely as ablative wounds, now they get to be ablative wounds that are also psychic batteries. If you were never casting spells with those warlocks, you haven't lost all that much.

Still, it is harder to cast WC 2 powers than it used to be. Allow me to illustrate:



(oops - I forgot to label the x-axis. It shows the number of dice used)

Compare the spread with how easy it was to cast powers in 6ed:



If a psyker wants to throw 6 dice at a WC 2 power to get the maximum chance of success, that chance of successfully casting is still lower than the chance of passing a Ld 10 check. And almost a third of those successes will have a bonus Perils! thrown in (and 26% of all attempts).

So, he consumes three times as many resources to cast at lower efficacy and more risk to himself. How is that any scarier than what we are up against now?

Count Adhemar wrote:
Plus, having lots of dice is a double whammy as not only do you get to cast all of your powers you also get to stop anyone else from doing so.

Now this is definitely a concern. It means that armies with intermediate psychic ability will be crushed in the psychic phase by armies with overwhelming psychic abilities, while having a smaller proportionate impact on their opponent, meaning that the expenditure on psykers is mostly wasted points.

I'm starting to think that the only winning move in the psychic phase is not to play.

ligolski wrote:
To be honest, NO ONE knows what perils will do to a psyker or his unit.

Very true, and if Perils! is only a minor nuisance, then psykers are a lot better than if it is a disaster. I'm hoping for the latter of course, but not overly invested.

But yes, it's all speculation for another week or so. But what speculation we have! Smile

Brom wrote:
Ultimately we need more information before we freak out but from where I sit it looks like 7th edition is gearing up to be the age of the psyker.

2nd Ed was the age of thep syker. To be honest I don't think this will come close.

But it is fun to freak out, so why not Smile
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PostSubject: Re: New Psycher Phase - How will Dark Eldar match up   Tue May 20 2014, 02:02

hey creeping darkness, I think you forgot the perils stat in the chart you made for 7th edition Smile


Also count, a screenshot on GW's page shows that GK CAN use sanctic powers...just not malefic

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PostSubject: Re: New Psycher Phase - How will Dark Eldar match up   Tue May 20 2014, 03:14

No omission ligolski - succeed + perils is in orange, but for wc 1 or 2 it's impossible to perils on a fail. Since perils is only on a double six, it's a tax on successes these days.

Brom wrote:
As a player that uses spiritstones of anathlan extensively I can attest to the value of being able to slang multiple 'value' powers.

The spirit stone of Anathlan is going to be an even more valuable upgrade, and also the best way to (more) safely summon daemons...

edited for typo


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PostSubject: Re: New Psycher Phase - How will Dark Eldar match up   Tue May 20 2014, 08:54

ligolski wrote:
Also count, a screenshot on GW's page shows that GK CAN use sanctic powers...just not malefic

I know. It was on the page that I linked above  Very Happy 

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PostSubject: Re: New Psycher Phase - How will Dark Eldar match up   Tue May 20 2014, 14:56

Creeping Darkness wrote:
No omission ligolski - succeed + perils is in orange, but for wc 1 or 2 it's impossible to perils on a fail. Since perils is only on a double six, it's a tax on successes these days.

Brom wrote:
As a player that uses spiritstones of anathlan extensively I can attest to the value of being able to slang multiple 'value' powers.

The spirit stone of Anathlan is going to be an even more valuable upgrade, and also the best way to (more) safely summon daemons...

edited for typo

Derp of course...

also sorry count, i misread your comment into thinking that they didn't have access!

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Athalkar
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PostSubject: Re: New Psycher Phase - How will Dark Eldar match up   Tue May 20 2014, 19:38

Creeping Darkness wrote:
No omission ligolski - succeed + perils is in orange, but for wc 1 or 2 it's impossible to perils on a fail. Since perils is only on a double six, it's a tax on successes these days.
edited for typo

Based on the pages released by white dwarf yesterday, double sixes is only a perils for deamonology if your not either grey knights (sanctic) or daemons (malefic).  

The awkward language for perils on sixes ends with the caveate "whether the psychic test was successful or not."  To me that language implies that if you fail, you suffer perils.  



White dwarf link:

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/What's-New-Today-from-the-White-Dwarf-Team/2014/05/15/The-rules-of-war

(click on the images to see the adjacent pages of the rule book.)  

EDIT: Nevermind.... I misread it and am soooo wrong.

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PostSubject: Re: New Psycher Phase - How will Dark Eldar match up   Wed May 21 2014, 02:43

aurynn wrote:
We are still in the realms of rumours so dispelling mechanic is uncertain, but from what I read, I understood that if the Farseer rolls 3 successess and needs 3 successes to cast the spell, you only need to cancel ONE of his successess to dispel the spell.

Now that we are no longer in the realms of rumours: If the Sightseer needs 1 success to cast the power, and rolls 3 successes, you need to cancel all three successes to dispel it.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: New Psycher Phase - How will Dark Eldar match up   Thu May 29 2014, 09:44

Played first game last night. Was Dark Eldar/Eldar vs Necrons/Grey Knights. The Eldar had 2 Farseers (ML3) and a Warlock (ML1) and the GK had 3 units with Brotherhood of Psykers (ML1), one vehicle with Psychic Pilot (ML1), an Inquisitor (ML1) and a Grand Master (ML2). So, a pretty even match up!

Neither side managed to deny a spell that was not targeted against us, even by throwing our entire dice pool at a single spell.

Both sides tried to get some spells off against our opponents but the majority were denied (5+ deny and reroll 1's for GK, 4+ deny for the Eldar). We did have one hairy moment when the GK cast Cleansing Flame and Psychic Scream against the Eldar but the Farseers each used their Runes to give +2 to each Deny attempt, meaning Deny on 2+ so both powers were negated.

Perils were negligible. I think we had 3 Perils. The Eldar rolled a 1 but made the Ld test so simply took a wound, which was negated by the Ghosthelm. The GK Rhino rolled a 2 and took a glance and lost Sanctuary for the rest of the battle. The GK Grand Master amusingly Perils'd on an utterly pointless psychic power (Prescience on a model who was out of range of assault and his weapon) but rolled a 6 which gave him a 3++ save, Smash, Armourbane and Fleshbane but he was out of assault range so it made no difference.

Overall, we certainly cast fewer powers than the same army would have done in 6e but still generally managed to cast the buffs that we needed and failed to cast anything at our opponents. So pretty similar to 6e!

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PostSubject: Re: New Psycher Phase - How will Dark Eldar match up   Sat May 31 2014, 08:37

Well, lets say I want Beaststar army. Farseer lvl 2 and Eldard lvl 4 so 6 Warp Charges. Is there any chance to reliably cast powers vs Grey Knights? They can spam so many Warp Charges that I think he will deny me every spell. Seercouncil deathstar can get many WC, any other Deldar build that can compete against Grey Knights?

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: New Psycher Phase - How will Dark Eldar match up   Sat May 31 2014, 09:43

If you're casting against the GK then it will be tough. Pretty much every unit will be denying on a 5+, rerolling 1's. If you're just buffing yourself though I'd say you've got a decent chance to get your spells off.

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