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Razorfate
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PostSubject: Possible 7th edition rules   Thu May 01 2014, 06:40

Hi fellow kin,

A rumour thread is started by our gaming group in Turkey. I do not know the source of the rumors and may be false as no source was given in the original thread:

Movement:
Run: D6 or 2D6 for Flying Monstrous Creatures that are Swooping.
Consolidations: 2D6 pick one, but you only consolidate on your turn. You can charge with your consolidation move. Opponent can overwatch. You only get to fight once per turn, so if you consolidate into a new combat you don’t get to fight, unless your fist combat didn’t fight (opponent flees).
Retreats: 6 + D6
Charge: 2D6, not affected by difficult terrain.
Move through Difficult: 2D6 pick one.
Charge through Difficult: 2D6 (The same, but -2 iniative).
Reserves:
Coming in from Reserves: If there is no enemy in 24” of a particular table edge, units from reserve that use this edge to enter the table can march an additional 12”
Flyers have the “Patient Hunter” special rule which means they can choose to stay in ongoing reserves.
Assault:
Flee: You can chose to immediately lose combat after Hammer of Wrath, before any blows are struck. Iniative roll off as if you had lost combat. If you win, you do a normal Retreat. If you lose, the unit is destroyed. It happens before pile-ins.
Overwatch: Must win or tie an iniative roll off to overwatch. Cannot overwatch if Gone to Ground or Pinned.
Charge through Cover: -2 to initiative unless assault grenades or unit being assaulted has Gone to Ground or been Pinned.
Initiative: All models strike at their common Initiative unless they are in a Challenge, or are using Unwieldy weapons like power fists. If a unit has 3 Power Fists, and 2 Chainswords they all strike at Initiative 1.
Hammer of Wrath: Counts as part of combat resolution.
Assaulting Vehicles and Buildings: If the vehicle doesn’t have a WS (walker), then you Sweep Attack them rather than Assault them.
Psychic Powers:
Most happen at the end of the movement phase rather than the start. You have to roll for Warp charges like fantasy (complexity 4?)
Psychic powers do not require line of sight.
Unit Types:
Jump Infantry - Can use jump packs in all phases. If In difficult, and you use Jump pack, must take dangerous terrain test. Jump Packs in assault give HOW but not Rerolls.
Chariots - can Sweep Attack
Bikes - can Sweep Attack
Vehicles - d6 S6 Hammer of Wrath and have Sweep Attack which seems to replace Tank Shock. Walkers do d6 S:Unit Hammer of Wrath. “Death or Glory” against vehicle sweep attacks mean all models in unit Snapshoot at rear armor, or all models within 3” do CC attacks against rear armor. Must take fear test or WS:1. If they fail to stop the vehicle, then they take 2d6 S6 Hammer of Wrath. Only get cover saves against other vehicles.
Light Walkers - Only do 1 Hammer of Wrath. I’m thinking Killa Kans, Scout Sentinal, War Walkers.
Swarms - Take d3 wounds to Template weapons (flamers).
Special Rules:
Fleet add an extra D6, and can discard a D6 in all random moves. No Rerolls.
Move through cover, and you ignore the effects of Difficult Terrain (6” move, no iniative penalty for assault), but not Dangerous.
Shrouded: -2 to BS
Stealth: +1 to Cover
Fearless: Cannot chose to Flee
Preferred Enemy: +1 to hit for both Melee and Shooting.
Bulky: gives Hammer of Wrath.
Hit and Run: Gives Sweep Attack, cannot leave combat.
Sweep Attack: Close combat attack in the movement phase can only hit ground targets, and can be hit back. Pause during movement, cannot be within 1”. Any model within 3” can attack, and then finish movement. No Pile-ins allowed. Can be part of a Run Move. You can still shoot after a Sweep Attack. Does include Hammer of Wrath.
Vector Strike: d6 S:Unit AP:- auto hits. Hits Rear Armor. Swooping must pass within 3” of model being vector strike (no longer have to pass over). Does not count as shooting a weapon. All hits are precision hits.
Look Out Sir: On a 2+ the next closest model takes the wounds. Only 1 Look Out Sir roll for all allocated wounds. Look Out Sir is available to all models with special weapons.
Regeneration: 4+ to recover a wound. Grants Feel No Pain.
Other Rules:
Snapshooting: -3 BS.
High BS: No Rerolls for BS > 6. 1 always misses, 6 always hits.
FOC:
HQ: 0-25%, must have 1 warlord
Elite: 0-25%
Troops: 20-75%
Fast Attack: 0-25%
Heavy Support: 0-25%
Secondary Detachments: 0-25%, it includes Allies, Fortifications, Formations, Lords of War and can also include units from your primary codex. You can have 3, but must pick one after rolling for game, deployment and first turn. The player who wins first turn must select first. See example below.
Allies: Allies are part of the Secondary Detachment, but count in Primary FOC. They do not have a troop or HQ limit, and you must have only 1 ally per Secondary detachment, but you can take formations from other allies.
Fortifications: Fortifications are part of the Secondary Detachment.
Formations: Formations are part of the Secondary Detachment, and don’t count in the Primary FOC.
Lords of War: If one player brings a Lord of war and the other player does not, the first player must declare his Secondary Detachment first, and the opponent has a chance to bring fourth Secondary Detachment. Any Heavy Support in this special Secondary Detachment do not count against the Heavy Support Limit.

Btw according to Nafka, the 7th edition hits the stores in 24 of May. The facebook page of GW store in Liverpool:

https://www.facebook.com/GWLiverpool

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Lord_Alino
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PostSubject: Re: Possible 7th edition rules   Thu May 01 2014, 06:48

I accept whatever I just read.
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Barking Agatha
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PostSubject: Re: Possible 7th edition rules   Thu May 01 2014, 10:24

@Razorfate wrote:

Overwatch: Must win or tie an iniative roll off to overwatch.

Hurrah, wyches are saved! I find it hard to believe.

@Razorfate wrote:

Assaulting Vehicles and Buildings: If the vehicle doesn’t have a WS (walker), then you Sweep Attack them rather than Assault them.

So wyches could move to within 3" of a vehicle, stop to attack it with haywire grenades, then shoot at someone else or run into cover or even maybe still charge (it isn't clear) all in one turn?

@Razorfate wrote:

Bikes - can Sweep Attack

Okay, so Reaver Jetbikes can turbo-boost, stop in the middle of it to fight a sweep attack, and then finish the turbo-boost blade-vaning the survivors, or even another unit if you want?

@Razorfate wrote:

Snapshooting: -3 BS.
High BS: No Rerolls for BS > 6. 1 always misses, 6 always hits.

My Archon's snapshots hit on a 3+?

@Razorfate wrote:

Secondary Detachments: 0-25%, it includes Allies, Fortifications, Formations, Lords of War and can also include units from your primary codex. You can have 3, but must pick one after rolling for game, deployment and first turn. The player who wins first turn...
...must declare his Secondary Detachment first, and the opponent has a chance to bring fourth Secondary Detachment. Any Heavy Support in this special Secondary Detachment do not count against the Heavy Support Limit.

I didn't understand any of that.

I dunno, it all sounds like suspiciously good changes. I guess we'll see in about a month!
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Possible 7th edition rules   Thu May 01 2014, 10:39

To be honest I don't really believe much of that. Some might accidentally prove to be correct but I doubt very much it's got any real source behind it.

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PostSubject: Re: Possible 7th edition rules   Thu May 01 2014, 11:34

Quote :
Run: D6 or 2D6 for Flying Monstrous Creatures that are Swooping.

Really seems pointless giving FMCs a run move when the swoop considering how far the can move anyway.

Quote :
Charge: 2D6, not affected by difficult terrain.
I sincerely doubt it. Terrain will always have an effect on movement and assaulting. Otherwise its just stupid.

Quote :
Reserves:
Coming in from Reserves: If there is no enemy in 24” of a particular table edge, units from reserve that use this edge to enter the table can march an additional 12”
Flyers have the “Patient Hunter” special rule which means they can choose to stay in ongoing reserves.
Again, I really doubt it. Both rules here just make Reserves more complicated than the need to be, and just seem redundant.


Quote :
Flee: You can chose to immediately lose combat after Hammer of Wrath, before any blows are struck.
Iniative roll off as if you had lost combat. If you win, you do a normal Retreat. If you lose, the unit is destroyed. It happens before pile-ins.

Yeah, no. "Oh look, a way to avoid ever having to fight the rock hard combat unit" (Incubi). This right here would kill combat, if anyone can just back away from it. Necron combat units would never get a blow in, nor would many Nids.

Quote :
Charge through Cover: -2 to initiative unless assault grenades or unit being assaulted has Gone to Ground or been Pinned.
Well, this one at least makes SOME sense.

Quote :
Initiative: All models strike at their common Initiative unless they are in a Challenge, or are using Unwieldy weapons like power fists. If a unit has 3 Power Fists, and 2 Chainswords they all strike at Initiative 1.
No. Really, really no, as this would destroy many Marine combat units.

Quote :
Psychic powers do not require line of sight.
Definitely not. Can you imagine how overpowered this would make some armies? And completely screw over those two or three armies that have no Psykers at all?!

Quote :
Vehicles - d6 S6 Hammer of Wrath and have Sweep Attack which seems to replace Tank Shock.
Again, a heavy doubt. Allowing any vehicle to make a Sweep attack? And the same Strength regardless of size or armour value? Yeah, no.

Quote :
Walkers do d6 S:Unit Hammer of Wrath.
Because why let Carnifex's be special?

Quote :
Shrouded: -2 to BS
Stealth: +1 to Cover
Doubted. Why make one cover condition affect BS and not the other? makes more sense as cover saves add-ons.

Quote :
Hit and Run: Gives Sweep Attack, cannot leave combat.
Goodbye the only good thing about Hellions? Render the Stunclaw completely useless? Make some of the Baron's special rules meaningless? Yeah, no.

Quote :
Snapshooting: -3 BS.
Would mean some units can never fire Overwatch. No.

Quote :
FOC
I've spoken elsewhere, but I'll restate that I sincerely doubt the FOC is going to change to percentage. If this new set of rules is a simple update as the general consensus seems to think, this is too radical a change. Moving to percentage would only happen if the rules had a MAJOR overhaul.

Quote :
Fortifications: Fortifications are part of the Secondary Detachment.
Nope, they'll stay separate, because that way GW can make more money from you being allowed multiple thing from multiple sources.

Quote :
Lords of War: If one player brings a Lord of war and the other player does not, the first player must declare his Secondary Detachment first, and the opponent has a chance to bring fourth Secondary Detachment. Any Heavy Support in this special Secondary Detachment do not count against the Heavy Support Limit.
Nope. You know why, because it makes no sense! Both players agree the terms of their battle, and make theirs lists to play. Assuming one is going to suddenly surprise the other with a LoW and putting in a complicated rule to cover it is redundant. You might as well have a rule in case one brings a Special Character and the other doesn't, or one brings more Heavy Supports than the other.
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Barking Agatha
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PostSubject: Re: Possible 7th edition rules   Thu May 01 2014, 17:26

@Squidmaster wrote:

Quote :
Flee: You can chose to immediately lose combat after Hammer of Wrath, before any blows are struck.
Iniative roll off as if you had lost combat. If you win, you do a normal Retreat. If you lose, the unit is destroyed. It happens before pile-ins.

Yeah, no. "Oh look, a way to avoid ever having to fight the rock hard combat unit" (Incubi). This right here would kill combat, if anyone can just back away from it. Necron combat units would never get a blow in, nor would many Nids.

But if you try to flee from the Incubi and they catch you, your entire unit is destroyed, and they do have an Initiative of 5. That doesn't seem too terrible for the Incubi! What it does is to make Initiative much more valuable as a stat than it is now. I like that, because I play dark eldar Smile

Quote :
Quote :
Shrouded: -2 to BS
Stealth: +1 to Cover
Doubted. Why make one cover condition affect BS and not the other? makes more sense as cover saves add-ons.

Maybe having them do the same thing, and stack up, is redundant? And also, because Ballistic Skills above 5 need to provide some kind of benefit, so better snapshots are one, and this is another.

Quote :
Quote :
Hit and Run: Gives Sweep Attack, cannot leave combat.
Goodbye the only good thing about Hellions? Render the Stunclaw completely useless? Make some of the Baron's special rules meaningless? Yeah, no.

Surely with sweep attacks they would actually get better?

Quote :
Quote :
Snapshooting: -3 BS.
Would mean some units can never fire Overwatch. No.

'To a minimum of 1' would be a safe bet. Besides, overwatch is only two years old, and since when do we love it so much? Overwatch-lover!

Seriously though, this is just a typical reaction. We hear about some (alleged, and highly doubtful) changes and instead of trying to figure out how the game might work if they were made and thinking 'hmm, this might be interesting', we go 'No! Terrible! Bad! They'll ruin the game, yaaar!' Smile
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Razorfate
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PostSubject: Re: Possible 7th edition rules   Thu May 01 2014, 21:03

As i have indicated in the original post, these are rumors with as much salt as you can ever digest. But i have heard the sweeping advance rule before from another source. The same rule rumor has appeared in this thread and it kind of make sense...

I have asked the guy who started the rumor for its source and i will share it if i am answered.

Personally i liked the changes, and i think it benefits us much more than its hindrance.
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Its_Rumble
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PostSubject: Re: Possible 7th edition rules   Thu May 01 2014, 23:51

Theres a thread about this in the Rumor section.

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Razorfate
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PostSubject: Re: Possible 7th edition rules   Fri May 02 2014, 06:20

I am sorry if the thread is in the wrong section, please feel free to move it.
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Its_Rumble
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PostSubject: Re: Possible 7th edition rules   Fri May 02 2014, 06:44

Haha I was just letting you know there's another thread about this in the DE rumor section. Which means it is probably in the wrong section.

http://www.thedarkcity.net/t9177-6th-edition-being-pulled


Just in case you wanted to check it out!

It's perfectly fine I was just informing.

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PostSubject: Re: Possible 7th edition rules   Fri May 02 2014, 15:33

Thanks mate:)
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PostSubject: Re: Possible 7th edition rules   Fri May 02 2014, 16:55

@Barking Agatha wrote:
But if you try to flee from the Incubi and they catch you, your entire unit is destroyed, and they do have an Initiative of 5. That doesn't seem too terrible for the Incubi! What it does is to make Initiative much more valuable as a stat than it is now. I like that, because I play dark eldar Smile

I guess my argument there, is that its a safe bet the Incubi can kill most things in combat anyway. The CHANCE that a unit could run away is for me like Overwatch, its just another small chance of avoiding the death and getting to fire back. Ok the chances aren't great, but it's just another "Get out of combat free" card that I don't like.



@Barking Agatha wrote:
Surely with sweep attacks they would actually get better?
Honestly, gaining Sweep Attacks just turns them into slight worse Reaver Jetbikes. We HAVE a unit that can sweep past someone and attack them, and that's the Reavers. having Hellions do it too is fairly redundant in my eyes as its from a weaker unit.



@Barking Agatha wrote:
'To a minimum of 1' would be a safe bet. Besides, overwatch is only two years old, and since when do we love it so much? Overwatch-lover!
I like it when a unit of 10 Scourge with Shardcarbines uses Overwatch. Or when a full unit of Warriors on a Raider with Splinter Racks use it.



@Barking Agatha wrote:
Seriously though, this is just a typical reaction. We hear about some (alleged, and highly doubtful) changes and instead of trying to figure out how the game might work if they were made and thinking 'hmm, this might be interesting', we go 'No! Terrible! Bad! They'll ruin the game, yaaar!' Smile

As opposed to the VERY typical: "Oh, new edition rumours. Time to start spreading the stupidest rumours possible!"  Rolling Eyes 
We can say what we like, but we ALL know that happens. A LOT.  Very Happy
And as the Shatner once said: "The true fan is the one who complains the most and the loudest."
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PostSubject: Re: Possible 7th edition rules   Sat May 03 2014, 08:34

@Squidmaster wrote:

I like it when a unit of 10 Scourge with Shardcarbines uses Overwatch. Or when a full unit of Warriors on a Raider with Splinter Racks use it.

Shouldn't be a problem then, because BS4 - 3 is BS1, which is what they have now, and with their high Initiative they would be likely to beat the unit charging them, unless it's genestealers or something, and frankly they could use a break from Overwatch too.

@Squidmaster wrote:

As opposed to the VERY typical: "Oh, new edition rumours. Time to start spreading the stupidest rumours possible!"  Rolling Eyes 

I have my doubts about these rumours, but I don't think they're stupid at all. With these rules I could charge a squad of wyches into a squad of space meringues and be reasonably sure that they could make it there, without all the messing about with phantom grenade launchers, charging only from cover, and sacrificing someone else to soak up the overwatch first. Even better, it puts Tau back in their place. They would almost never get to shoot overwatch at charging wyches. Suddenly fighting Dark Eldar wouldn't be easy mode for them any more! Not to mention necrons, orks, and so on. Wyches need this (also genestealers, daemonettes, howling banshees, but wyches need it the most!)

@Squidmaster wrote:

And as the Shatner once said: "The true fan is the one who complains the most and the loudest."

I guess I'm not a true fan then, because what I see is solutions to many of our not-so-good units that have been hurt by 6th edition. Still doesn't help Mandrakes, of course, but then what could?
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PostSubject: Re: Possible 7th edition rules   Tue May 06 2014, 05:32

http://www.beastsofwar.com/warhammer-40k/warhammer-40000-7th-edition-rules-emerge/

Lots of changes. It seems that we can spawn trueborn and ravagers . I do not know whether to feel joy or sorrow
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PostSubject: Re: Possible 7th edition rules   Tue May 06 2014, 10:00

I just read that excerpt from WD and died a little inside. Seriously?! Just take whatever you want. Use any models you feel like. Utter crap!

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PostSubject: Re: Possible 7th edition rules   Tue May 06 2014, 10:41

Yeah, I agree with Count Adhemar here. The WD excerpt really makes the whole thing feel haphazard and shoddy. We'll see for sure when the rules come out, of course, but for now, I'm not sure I like throwing all balance out the window and just taking whatever.

On a second thought, though... could it really be any worse than it is now? Is there much difference in someone bringing six flying daemon princes instead of the five one can currently easily pull off? I honestly don't know - this is such a big change that it is hard to say how exactly will the things turn out. Really torn on this.

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PostSubject: Re: Possible 7th edition rules   Tue May 06 2014, 14:36

I feel very sorry since i read the article. It seems that GW tries to sell as much as possible before selling themselves as a company, they seem to just trying to increase the revenue and profits.

It is up to fanbase and tournament organizers to hold the balance while GW cares not a single bit...


Btw, there is a whole new phaze where dark eldar will not do a single thing without the allies.
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PostSubject: Re: Possible 7th edition rules   Tue May 06 2014, 14:56

@Razorfate wrote:
Btw, there is a whole new phaze where dark eldar will not do a single thing without the allies.

I'm hoping that we will have some mechanism to let us do something, even if it's only boosting our Deny the Witch rolls.

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PostSubject: Re: Possible 7th edition rules   Tue May 06 2014, 15:08

In the grim darkness of the future everybody dances round campfires holding hands and share scary stories of when there was only war.

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PostSubject: Re: Possible 7th edition rules   Tue May 06 2014, 19:09

At last I can finally field that Mandrake army I've been dreaming of....

On a serious note, is there any hint or idea of what the penalty will be for fielding an "Unbound Army"?
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PostSubject: Re: Possible 7th edition rules   Tue May 06 2014, 21:26

I am just going to stick with the regular FOC-based, "Battle Forged" army and games. I will probably try some Unbound games at some point for yuks, but I see many in my local meta sticking with the FOC for pick-up and tournament games and that will be fine with me.

I am really looking forward to the new Maelstrom of War tactical objectives. These sound like something that a guy on Dakka did and made freely available a few years ago, supposedly based on 2nd ed(? before my time). We used them in local tournaments and leagues and they were a lot of fun, added a lot more mystery and tactical thinking to the game, and the fact that they score at the end of each turn will make things much more dynamic, I think.
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PostSubject: Re: Possible 7th edition rules   Tue May 06 2014, 21:54

I think there's going to be a lot of that, Gobs. Despite the negativity that comes with every edition people always find a way to balance it and use the fun things. I'm actually getting pretty excited about the potential.

And I agree completely on the new objectives. The could really add some dynamism and make people have to think more. I love having the potential of things going wrong or well because you haven't planned ahead.

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PostSubject: Re: Possible 7th edition rules   Tue May 06 2014, 21:59

"Great news for all football fans: with the new rules, you can choose to either play "match-hardened", where you use a traditional 11-man line-up, but you get to use a metallic ball and your goalie has magnetised gloves...or you can play "Soccer Unbound" where you can have 11 goalkeepers, or your defenders can all carry tasers."
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PostSubject: Re: Possible 7th edition rules   Wed May 07 2014, 12:37

Dark Eldar will still have stuff to do in the Pysker phase, dispel dice! Psychic combo breakers! Think about it though, a lot of the combo's rely on successful pyschic powers, save up your spell dice and mess up there chances when rolling for crucial powers. All of a sudden their 2+ cover save isn't re-rollable and your packing template weapons (hopefully).
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PostSubject: Re: Possible 7th edition rules   Wed May 07 2014, 14:02

I think the Warbound/Unbound distinction will really be down to what the bonuses for being Warbound turn out to be. I know what I'd like or at least what I think would make sense (either a slight increase in available points or better Warlord Traits), but I have a feeling they will be the thing that actually decides if this is a blanaced move or not. Remaining optimistic.

As for the Psychic Phase, wouldn't it be nice if things like the Crucible of Malediction became mutli-use, and were our little thing to do in the Psychic Phase.....
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