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django_unchained
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PostSubject: Anyone else shuddering at the thought of a new book?   Wed Apr 23 2014, 21:15

I'm fearful for my venoms... I just have a feeling, come new codex our venoms are getting nerfed. What other units do you guys think might either get nerfed or buffed?
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Azdrubael
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone else shuddering at the thought of a new book?   Wed Apr 23 2014, 21:56

I think Venoms will be more expensive, but more or less same.

Im fearfull too. For some unexpected craziness.

Eldar book was kinda blanded to much, almost no point in any Exarchs now. CLear winner and losers. I'd love our book to retain internal balace, even if it wont bring super power with it.

Mandrakes will be nerfed.

Incubi buffed. Cause you know, books and such to sell.

SOme characters might suddenly dissapear.

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PostSubject: Re: Anyone else shuddering at the thought of a new book?   Wed Apr 23 2014, 22:17

whu? Exarchs are I6! Scorpion exarchs are awesome sauce.

I dont want a new Dark Eldar book but I would definitely not agree to the blandness of the new Eldar codex!

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Cavash
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone else shuddering at the thought of a new book?   Wed Apr 23 2014, 22:28

I do not want a new codex at all.

What I would much rather have was the last few years of 40k undone and for GW to alter their madness and make things balanced with good ideas instead of making silly rules and broken armies for the sake of money.

I think if there was a new Codex I'd be cautious at first. As long as it didn't suddenly become 'that new book that's horribly OP' I think I'd be happy. I hope they'd give Hellions a buff. I use them anyhow, but it's expensive to get a Hellion based army to work and I find that they don't do enough for the points spent.

In truth, I really wouldn't mind too much what they do to the rules as long as they leave the fluff alone. I like the fluff in the Codex and would be rather disappointed if they decided to go reworking things.

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PostSubject: Re: Anyone else shuddering at the thought of a new book?   Wed Apr 23 2014, 23:43

Cavash, most of my friends are still expecting to wake up and find the last two years of GW have all been a dream.

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Cavash
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone else shuddering at the thought of a new book?   Thu Apr 24 2014, 00:01

Ha, I know that feeling, Sky. Wink

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PostSubject: Re: Anyone else shuddering at the thought of a new book?   Thu Apr 24 2014, 00:08

I am ignoring the past year, and only playing 1,500 pure codex games, without flyers, and I am enjoying 40K much more than I was a month ago, when I nearly rage-quit.

I think our current codex is still very playable, so I do not fear a new one, as if I don't like it, I'll continue with the old!
My poor Skaven-Counts-As-Tyranids did not enjoy this luxury. My 5th lists didn't translate into 6th well, and as I refused to go triple Tervigon, I eagerly awaited the new Codex, expecting Genestealers to be fixed, Shrikes to get Winged Primes, and the whole army to get some sort of protection from shooting.

The lazy atrocity that was the new C:T, followed by pay-to-play PDFs within weeks, was an insult, and was what encouraged me to shun GW.

Assuming the new codex doesn't disappoint, I hope for new units and characters, just in time for the final wave of Raging Heroes TGG figures; then I can thumb my nose at GW, and have my sexy pirate girls all up-to-date; if not, then my girls will be used as my lists are now.

Win-win!  flower 
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone else shuddering at the thought of a new book?   Thu Apr 24 2014, 00:16

I love Highlander Tournament style. It looks SOOOOOOO fun

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django_unchained
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone else shuddering at the thought of a new book?   Thu Apr 24 2014, 00:23

I couldn't bring myself to play an outdated codex...
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Gorthaur
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone else shuddering at the thought of a new book?   Thu Apr 24 2014, 00:37

Well I like the thought of a full color, art and stylish book that would come with a new release. Some rules changes/dataslates and other stuff...not so much.

I think I would rather just see DE get another wave, VR bomber, plastic incubi and archon. But likely we will see a new codex, because GW is intent on getting all the armies in hardback. I would expect to see Vect/Dais get a plastic release this time around, and expect dual kits. And enjoy DEs somewhat decent pricing while it lasts.
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deep-sea-captain
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone else shuddering at the thought of a new book?   Thu Apr 24 2014, 02:32

I'd look forward to a new codex, mostly because I'd enjoy having a stylish hardback book! Rules changes though, I don't fear rules changes, but I'm not really crying out for them either, I'd just roll with it. I don't think they'd change to much anyway.
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wanderingblade
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone else shuddering at the thought of a new book?   Thu Apr 24 2014, 07:27

Tbh...

Yes, I am apprehensive, cos GW are good at making people feel apprehensive BUT

Now that we've got a decent chunk of 6th codices and rules it's actually starting to look reasonably balanced against each other. Tau shooting is still ridiculously strong but, much as people rag on Deathstars, the use of them does re-expose Tau to their weakness and keep them in line. Daemons, Space Marines, Guard - they're all strong, but probably not ridiculously so. Eldar made out like bandits in that they have the answer to virtually everything at a very reasonable or better price in their book but as they can only put out 1500 points a time, same as the rest of us, its not quite so bad.

Chaos Space Marines and Dark Angels got the crappy end of the stick but other than that... there is reasonable grounds for feeling optimistic. And there are internal balance issues to be sorted in our codex imo. Scourges and Mandrakes both need help. The Archon's Court is pointless. Hellions have issues. Our normal HQ section could benefit from expansion and more choices. Who doesn't want to take an Incubi Hierarch as a leader, or stick their Archon on a jetbike. In terms of external balance, there are points adjustments to make.

So... I'm not shuddering.
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Azdrubael
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone else shuddering at the thought of a new book?   Thu Apr 24 2014, 16:14

Quote :
whu? Exarchs are I6! Scorpion exarchs are awesome sauce

There is only point in Scorpion Exarch (but not much point in scorpions themselfs) and maybe swooping hawks exarchs.

Dire Avengers, Dark Reapers, Warp Spiders can and live without him just well. Stupid Exarch powers with that supposed challenge loving, i loved bladestorm power so much on DA. "Forging of Narrative".

You can and live without shee squad, and Dragon Exarch are tradeoff.

So all in all - exarchs arent very usefull if you dont plan on challenge with them.
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone else shuddering at the thought of a new book?   Thu Apr 24 2014, 16:28

I don't really fear nervs. But I'm almost dying out of curiosity.
The Question is: What cool old 'one-per-army' relics we can use,
to turn our victims into Shish Kebab.

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PostSubject: Re: Anyone else shuddering at the thought of a new book?   Thu Apr 24 2014, 21:41

I have just been done over by IG the new Astra Militarum. With their already voluminous shooting, some bright sparks decided they also needed psykers with divination and ignores cover orders! What a pleasant game mechanic Evil or Very Mad ! It is a bad idea to even assault guardsmen because they re-roll to hits in combat as well, once prescienced. Pair that up with re-rolls on armour saves, too ("Foreboding/forewarning", I can't remember). They WASTED my wyches, gladiatorial champions my butt!
RRRAAAGGGGGEEEE !!
That I made it through a hail of fire and overwatch, setting my girls up beautifully with a multi-charge, was skilful play. Where is the style in plasma/melta toting ignores cover vets and guardsmen? There wasn't any relative safety for DE even in melee. Where is AM's inherent weakness now?
I have spent hours upon hours working to earn, build and paint my DE army, only to be crippled so consistently badly by T3 that playing on is pointless. Our ship is listing and I ride that all the way down, down, down.  
Am I nervous about a new book? I love this dex, but games with DE have been a real struggle. That post about the last year being a bad dream, that's me, too.  It is a 6th ruleset issue, though moreso than it is an age issue. The game is in a great place for some, pure DE are not part of that club.
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django_unchained
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone else shuddering at the thought of a new book?   Thu Apr 24 2014, 21:49

Ive been doing well and winning RTs with my DE. Perhaps yiur issue was fielding wyches?
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone else shuddering at the thought of a new book?   Thu Apr 24 2014, 22:30

you're aware that the IG just would have allied in Divination if they weren't given it. So i think it a credit to the designers that they made the book non-reliant on other codex's. I personally think allies have really made for a different game, one that feels MORE like a game and LESS like imagination at play.

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Archon
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone else shuddering at the thought of a new book?   Thu Apr 24 2014, 22:50

Quite the opposite. Every time the Codex has been updated (Chapter approved updates in 4th and New Book in 5th) it has brought improvements. I am looking forward to the new opportunities it may bring. Not that I'm complaining about what we have now.
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Athalkar
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone else shuddering at the thought of a new book?   Fri Apr 25 2014, 00:25

I'm looking forward to a new book actually. As a whole the codex is performing okay, but some parts could really use an update based on the rule changes from 6th.

I doubt venoms will get nerfed. In addition to the limited troop capacity and the use restriction (cannot take unless unit of 5 for less) 6th brought in a host of nerfs to the venom: (1) Jink almost nullified the flicker field (2) s4 vehicle explosion, (2) shorter movement for effective fire from transported units, (3) distance it can move before units can disembark; and (4) as result of flat out being moved into the shooting phase, several existing DE vehicle upgrades had their effectiveness halved being limited to "in the movement phase" language. (I would have included 2 HPs; but under 5th glancing hits had about a 50:50 chance of destroying the venom anyway so pretty much status quo). In sum, assuming no change in function, I don't really see a need to nerf the venom.

Additionally, the venom is hardly over power compared to buffs received by other skimmer transports in their new Dexs.

I'd be curios to see what they do with mandrakes as there is no real simple "fix" to make them more desirable to play (and purchase).

Finally, more fluff is always awesome.


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PostSubject: Re: Anyone else shuddering at the thought of a new book?   Fri Apr 25 2014, 00:39

@Unorthodoxy wrote:
you're aware that the IG just would have allied in Divination if they weren't given it.  So i think it a credit to the designers that they made the book non-reliant on other codex's.  I personally think allies have really made for a different game, one that feels MORE like a game and LESS like imagination at play.

I strongly disagree. The ally mechanic isn't balanced.

Imperial Guard and Tau have 14 allies to choose from. In that, guard has 6, mind you 6 battle brothers.

Dark Eldar have 11? but only one that doesn't give the rule one eye open.

Tyranids can ally with no one.

That being said, game play wise Tyranids should have the most powerful stand alone codex on the shelf, because they can't just get rid of their inherent weaknesses with some trumped up alliance in a universe where everyone hates everyone (supposedly). That doesn't feel like a game to me, it feels like a ploy to sell more models. Blood Angels battle brothers with Necrons? Orks allied with Astra Militarium or Tau? Now that's imagination at play!


@DEFan I've been feeling like that as of late. It's just too easy to strip cover from everyone and it's only getting easier. Eldar were given some tools to handle this. Also, the firepower everyone can bring now is ridiculous. When I'm playing I don't feel like a glass hammer, I feel like a glass noodle. So I'd be excited for a new book, at best they address our problems, at worst, I get another army, or finally break down and buy eldar allies even though I hate them with a passion.

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wanderingblade
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone else shuddering at the thought of a new book?   Fri Apr 25 2014, 05:56

The concept of Ork mercenaries working with unscrupulous humans or, well, anyone who won't kill them on sight, is well established. Nothing unfluffy about that but that's slightly besides the point...

DEFan's post shows why we should want a new codex. Every codex has received a bump - its time we had that as well! Would making splinter rifles assault 2 24" help our problems? I don't know, but it wouldn't be out of line with a lot of the bumps that Eldar and Tau got for their guns.

That said, I think the Tactics forum needs a thread on those Guard swine...

p.s. I think can think of uses for every single Eldar Exarch; they're not must takes maybe, but they're not must ignores. Which I think is what everyone wants in terms of internal balance, right...?
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone else shuddering at the thought of a new book?   Fri Apr 25 2014, 18:09

Regarding Allies in 6th - I think the only truly broken aspect of it is battle brothers or at least the ability to have IC's join BB units. Too many deathstar combinations - and when you add in things like JetSeer Council-style lists, it's just a huge mass of WTF?

Back on topic though - I'm wary of a new codex. Overall, I think it's going to be a good thing since every codex that has came out after DE and CSM has been good. The exceptions to this are Tau and Eldar which were pushed a bit too much. Nids broke the previous army structure but the book, as a whole, provides a lot of options and versatility which makes for a more interesting army.

For DE - I can see some things changing (i.e. Venoms going up at least 10pts) and possibly some rules/models being removed; however, I also see the overall book getting buffed or at least remain balanced. I can see the WWP going away or, at the very least, being altered. I can see a reissue of the Razorwing/Voidraven to allow for a Voidraven. I can also see new Wych and Warrior kits to allow for Bloodbrides and Trueborn respectively.

I think my largest fear with a new book would be something that makes less sense than Eldar/Dark Eldar battle brother - like introducing psykers into the codex. I would rather see Coven HQ buffs to units than adding in Psykers. Overall though, I'd be perfectly happy if they did almost no effort on the new book but made it color, added the warlord traits, and shortly afterwards released a Coven-focused supplement.
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone else shuddering at the thought of a new book?   Sun Apr 27 2014, 21:11

@Unholyllama wrote:
 Nids broke the previous army structure but the book, as a whole, provides a lot of options and versatility which makes for a more interesting army.


.........
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone else shuddering at the thought of a new book?   Mon Apr 28 2014, 12:28

@Unholyllama wrote:
I think my largest fear with a new book would be something that makes less sense than Eldar/Dark Eldar battle brother - like introducing psykers into the codex.  I would rather see Coven HQ buffs to units than adding in Psykers.

Uh, Psykers in a DE Army? I wouldn't use them, even if that means, I'm going to loose every single match...
I think, I would prefer mercenaries. Or fast assault coven units. What a haemi could do with some springs?  bounce 

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PostSubject: Re: Anyone else shuddering at the thought of a new book?   Mon Apr 28 2014, 13:34

@Unholyllama wrote:

I think my largest fear with a new book would be something that makes less sense than Eldar/Dark Eldar battle brother - like introducing psykers into the codex.  I would rather see Coven HQ buffs to units than adding in Psykers.  Overall though, I'd be perfectly happy if they did almost no effort on the new book but made it color, added the warlord traits, and shortly afterwards released a Coven-focused supplement.

Well if rumors are true, and that in the new edition there is actually going to be a psyker phase, I don't necessarily want psykers, but we'll likely need something. We've done fine without psykers for the longest, but I'm not sure how missing a whole phase might effect our competitiveness. Even if it's just something like the dwarves in fantasy, where you don't have magic users, but you're really good at shutting them down. But that all depends on future developments!

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