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 FINALLY: Path of the Archon

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Braden Campbell
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PostSubject: Re: FINALLY: Path of the Archon   Sun Apr 13 2014, 23:59

@Tengu wrote:

Are there any Archons left?

Lord Malwrack and Mistress Baeda are still around, and as much in "love" as ever. Wink
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Lady Malys
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PostSubject: Re: FINALLY: Path of the Archon   Mon Apr 14 2014, 01:08

Quote :
Lord Malwrack and Mistress Baeda are still around, and as much in "love" as ever.  Wink 
Hurrah! Who says romance is dead. Wink

Well, looks like I am in a minority for really enjoying all three Dark Eldar Path books Very Happy I thought they were engaging and pleasantly fluff-compliant, and where they innovated, the additions made sense to me. Canon characters turned out enjoyably and Vect, who could easily have descended into moustache-twirling villainy, demonstrated some the intellect that got him where he is now. (He isn't a giant flying face by the way, that ziggurat is just his public address system.)

I appreciated the fact that the main Archons we saw all demonstrated very different styles of command - but my favourite is still Yllithian, for being a smartly-dressed, intellectual, devious, evil ... The only thing I wasn't entirely keen on, really, was the involvement of Chaos - for some reason, even though there were hints of it in all the books, I didn't expect it to be quite so involved. That's it really Smile

I am honestly surprised by the number of people who prefer Gavin Thorpe's Path books ... I don't think he is half as good at creating three-dimensional characters, and I have read quite a lot of his work. But at the end of the day I guess it comes down to what you like and what you enjoy.

All in all I want more! I'd love to see Andy Chambers write more about the other parts of the Eldar race, because I think he has the knowledge of the background and the command of the language to do them justice as he has done here Smile

Also, Motley. That is all.

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Dogmar
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PostSubject: Re: FINALLY: Path of the Archon   Mon Apr 14 2014, 15:41

I have to agree with you about the involvement of Chaos. Looking back at the books the hints were there, but I was slightly disappointed that it was that much.

Also
Spoiler:
 
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Trystis
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PostSubject: Re: FINALLY: Path of the Archon   Mon Apr 14 2014, 22:54

I liked the Dark Eldar path books more that the eldar path books also. Chaos was the true enemy in all 3 books, so I don't understand where it was only hinted at. It seemed pretty blatant to me. I would of liked to see the characters deal with another race though. I did like reading about the Kabal vs Kabal warfare in the last book. It really highlights how dangerous Commorrah is.

I like haemonculi so more information on their background was a welcomed treat.

I also liked how all the canon characters were represented, especially during the duel between Lady Malys and Motley. I was dreading that Vect would be in it because I thought he would be poorly represented, but he turned out well.

If you are interested in Motley you should read the Masque of Vyle. (This book is kind of expensive for its length but I did enjoy reading it. If you like harlequins and dark eldar fluff it's probably worth it)
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Tengu
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PostSubject: Re: FINALLY: Path of the Archon   Wed Apr 16 2014, 20:52

Dogmar, YES.

Angvere sussed it.
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Dogmar
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PostSubject: Re: FINALLY: Path of the Archon   Wed Apr 16 2014, 22:39

Sorry, "sussed"? Kind of like "guessing"? So, she was indeed right. It really makes sense if you look at the changes to the character since the discovery of the vault, but for my love for Motley as a character I really wanted my Solitaire theory to be true Wink
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Tengu
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PostSubject: Re: FINALLY: Path of the Archon   Wed Apr 16 2014, 22:49

Number two.
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Siticus the Ancient
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PostSubject: Re: FINALLY: Path of the Archon   Thu Apr 17 2014, 20:07

After getting done with the book today, I must say I enjoyed it. I really like how Andy Chambers handles the Dark Eldar, and it was a pleasant touch to see some newcomers that had previously been seen in White Dwarf pages such as Sythrac and Khromys. The archons were all quite distinct in their specific ways of being useful to Vect, and Vect himself, well... I certainly gained more respect for the character. Though we saw a glimpse of his own thought process, I felt he still mostly remained shrouded in mystery in a good way.

While some have expressed that the Chaos influence was not something they liked, I very much enjoyed the small hints of all gods having their agents and who they were. Even the Dark Eldar cannot escape the Great Game of Chaos forever, and that they would so subtly create themselves a new playground in Commorragh was to be expected. I mean, how could possibly the Great Deceiver keep away from such a maze of thick intrigue and not pluck and pull at some strings of Fate to make it all the more interesting?

Everyone got what they deserved, more or less. I am glad Bellathonis seemed to have wormed out from certain, terrible death even this time, though I am a little sad about Kharbyr.

Oh, if only Mandrakes were as impressive on tabletop as in Chambers' writing... same goes for our poor old Decapitator. So little common with the model that appears, gets shot at and quickly dies.

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Archon
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PostSubject: Re: FINALLY: Path of the Archon   Tue Apr 22 2014, 14:46

I enjoyed this trilogy, though I think Path of the Renegade was the best of them.  It was nice to see the inner workings of Commorragh and the interactions between all the differing Archons.  I would love to see more books, maybe one featuring the Archon with the Djinn-Blade from the lower tiers (I forgot her name) rebuilding her Kabal in the wake of the Dysjunction.

All in all, in was nice to see some Eldar who take action, rather than sit around and whine all day.  I tried to read the Craftworld Eldar trilogy, but the characters just seem horrible.
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Mngwa
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PostSubject: Re: FINALLY: Path of the Archon   Tue Apr 22 2014, 14:51

Well i'm done reading.

Was a good trilogy, but I don't think I can pick a favourite that easily. Maybe Incubi because it featured a lot of Motley as well as a little more outside of Commorragh.

Castigators sound awesome (I am forced to make conversions for them and field them through CWE allies someday now) and nice that the solar cults were featured too, if not that in depth.
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Khain mor
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PostSubject: Re: FINALLY: Path of the Archon   Wed May 07 2014, 18:33

Somehow I missed this thread...and I bought the book first day it came out, somehow my local GW for once had bought it, in english too (80% of the people in the GW prefer french)

Loved the book, enjoyed it a lot, read it twice actually.

Loved the part on castigators, I don't even have the new wraithguards, got some old ones. I'm going to have to buy a lot of those lol, some for my eldar, some for my DE as castigators.

They don't even need to be in the codex, seeing where the current rumors are heading about unbound armies, allowing you to field pretty much anything.

Another very fun thing about this book I really enjoyed as a concept, and could be a beautiful army: the mandrakes, pretty much a full army, with normal mandrakes, elite mandrakes, ur ghuls squads, grots. Some excellent potential for a themed army, not effective, but purely as a model army could be beautiful.

Motley is awesome, enough said about that.

Another thing I noticed from the 3 books actually, how Coven units need more work, we need permanent troop wracks, some elite wracks and some more Flesh constructs besides the talos, cornos and grots. I'd also add another higher Heamonculus step and diminish the points of the 2 current heamonculi choices, make the basic heamonculus warlock like both in cost and effectiveness.

Vect's Ziggurat sounds awesome, I also enjoyed a lot of the descriptions of the DE fortresses, definetely want to make such a terrain (a full GW table, edges of the table would be walled, obviously a fortress intended for apoc, armed with many many guns.

______________________________________________________________________________

I liked this trilogy a lot more than the eldar one. I liked the 3 books of this trilogy, the eldar trilogy I only enjoyed the first and last, the second one...I just couldn't identify with the main character. I've always been a hardcore scorpion fan, I loved the first book, the last book contained so much fun, so many different eldar factions, not to mention tons of DE stuff, I'd say that for both trilogies both the last books were the best.

Now Back on the De trilogy, the incubi book was awesome, If I had to pick one warrior type on a craftworld it would be scorpion, if it was in Commorragh I'd go with an incubi. Now the first book was very entertainming too, plenty of fun stuff happens.

Overall I'd say the DE trilogy is a lot better because it has more action, not that I didn't enjoy reading about a civilian craftworld life, but it was a bit less good.

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Bulwyf
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PostSubject: Re: FINALLY: Path of the Archon   Tue Jan 06 2015, 20:17

I finally got around to finishing off the last of the trilogy on my Kindle last night and was impressed. I enjoyed the series and thought Chambers did a better job at DE than any writer in BL before him.

I do have one question though: am I the only one that thought Xagor's odd behavior at the end of the book was because  Kharbyr had in fact switched souls with him when the Talos attacked? It just seemed bizarre to see how Xagor was reacting so differently around Bellathonis after that event.

My favorite character by far in the books was Morr. It was refreshing to see some sense of honor in the DE society and as a long time fan of the TT army it was good to have some meat behind arguments as to why Incubi don't simply turn on their Archons half the time as the rest of DE is inclined to do so.

Frankly I wish Morr and  Kharbyr (assuming he's not Xagor) had found a way to survive and thrive at the end of the series but a series like this doesn't bode well for anyone involved. We knew Vect was going to remain at the top no matter what the narrative would go into. It would be nice in the upcoming codex if they explored sub realms more thoroughly and actually gave new units and kings/queens/tyrants of other sub realms that don't owe Vect loyalty and simply exist on their own.
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Azdrubael
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PostSubject: Re: FINALLY: Path of the Archon   Tue Jan 06 2015, 20:45

Ok, after reading first book and skipping second i tried to read Path of Archon.

I had to give up on it somewhere before the middle part, so much i dislike how author depicted Dark Eldar and their characters. Vect is a cliche villain, his twin is pathethic, Archons are stupid and most of the iconic Dark Eldar units are plain statists waiting for their bullet/blade etc...

Overall im saying i dont like how Andy Chambers writes, i enjoyed every Dark Eldar story there is, i liked Tale of Torturer, i liked Dark Eldar in the Ultramarines book, i liked Dark Eldar in the Path of Outcast book. But the series dedicated to Dark Eldar i just plain hated it.

I've read a lot of warhammer literature at this point, almost every book of Horus Heresy and only long forgoten C.S. Gotto managed this horrible writing. My personal opinion naturally, im seeing many actually enjoyed those books.

After reading this book i know nothing more about Kabals, Wych Cults, Hellions, Scourges, Reavers, Ravagers, Raiders, Commoragh etc. All of those were mentioned only briefly, and if i didnt know who or what Hellions or Reavers were i would never even guessed when i was reading the book.
But anyway they appeared only for a fraction of time to die very soon at the power of author.

I do know more about chaos-worshipping dark eldar, deamons of slaanesh imposing as dark eldar, corrupted wraithguards enslaved by one particular dark eldar etc...so much special snowflakes that actual interesting stuff, you know, truly Dark Eldar stuff not this surprise inspiring moments, got left behind.

Was quite the opposite when i was reading Path of Eldar. The story was plain - farseer trying to prevent destruction of her craftword. But the depth of the story and complexity and codependancy of characters was superb. I knew a lot about Craftworld Eldar after those books.

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PostSubject: Re: FINALLY: Path of the Archon   Tue Jan 06 2015, 21:01

I'm not a fan of Vect in general simply because I find it illogical that a realm of denizens so inured to betrayal and murder no one is simply going to live that long. I'm sure this is GW just giving a faction a dedicated leader but I can understand your problems with how Vect was portrayed.

The only defense I can give for it is that this series really showed that Vect would go to any lengths including the complete annihilation of all DE simply to stay in power. Vect is a cliche tyrant because, well, he was created to fill that exact role by GW. I'm not sure how much leeway Chambers had in "humanizing" him much in the same way in the HH series we haven't had much if at all in the way of reading what the Emperor is really thinking.

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Azdrubael
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PostSubject: Re: FINALLY: Path of the Archon   Tue Jan 06 2015, 21:18

Quote :
we haven't had much if at all in the way of reading what the Emperor is really thinking.

That is for the best, it is very powerfull move. Some thing must be shown, some must be hidden, for the sake of truly quality writing. There are some clues about what he could be thinking and some free getaway like in Outcast Dead book, but you can portray Emperor accurately enough in the end. That would require some time to think and that is good.

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PostSubject: Re: FINALLY: Path of the Archon   Tue Jan 06 2015, 23:06

That same process applies to Vect though. He's IIRC the oldest living creature in the galaxy that is not Chaos touched or full on Chaos possessed, demon, god, etc. We didn't get a great deal of his thought processes in these books as well. The only thing that really shone through was his ability to use any and all weapons to stay in power and he could not care less if it killed off everything alive to do it.

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PostSubject: Re: FINALLY: Path of the Archon   Tue Jan 06 2015, 23:08

But he saves the city and thats all that really matters

If Commoragh falls, the Webway will collapse
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PostSubject: Re: FINALLY: Path of the Archon   Tue Jan 06 2015, 23:41

I actually finished the series a while back. Anyone who knows me might think that speaks volumes for how good a series it is, as I don't like to read very much. Well they would be wrong.

I finished it, because it was Dark Eldar. The same reason I've watched every Transformers Michael Bay movie. I'm a fan of the source content, it got some fan service, and I like for things that I am a fan of getting fan service, so I threw money at it.

Now it's nowhere near as bad as the last two transformers movies. It's okay, nothing special. But if you crave more Dark Eldar, this is one of the only few ways to get it. Before this series, we didn't have enough content to fill one of those nifty little omnibuses.

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The Strange Dark One
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PostSubject: Re: FINALLY: Path of the Archon   Mon Jan 19 2015, 17:57

There are few books which really appeal to me and even less which I really enjoy. Today, I finished Path of the Archon and I think the whol trilogy was amazing, just exactly my taste.

To be honest, when I bought Path of the Renegade I did not expect too much and expected an alright story which happens to be about Dark Eldar, but it was much more than that.
For me, it was a believeable and coherent world with all its details and a lot of interesting characters and nasty ideas.

The more I progressed through the trilogy the more interesting I found the books to be and Chambers constantly added new things to the story which kept the story fresh and gave me the impression of a real, living world.

The schematizing nature of Yllithian, Malixian's colourful character and Bellathonis with his own agenda.
My favourite character was Morr. Initially, he was only one killer among many, but the more we learneed about him, the more it seemed that he was a tragic monster/hero more than anything else.

And seeing the world from the point of few from a Talos Pain Engine and a Chronos Parasite Engine? I love it.
Morr, Motely, Vhi and Cho were unique characters who grew to me with time.


I can understand why many didn't seem to like the books, but I'm glad Chambers did it the way he did. I don't want to get explained how alien and abstract commoragh looks like, I've read more than enough H.P. Lovecraft Cthulhu stories for that.

I also tihnk that you cannot compare the books, as every book showed a different facet of the Dark Eldar (which he also mentioned in the epilogue).
Imo, the ending was excellent and PotA was one of the few books which didn't give me the impression that the ending was rushed and not fleshed out, it came all nicely together.

Btw. I actually liked the portrait of Vect. I just watched Death Note and I find it pleasently refreshing to see a master manipulator/planner without beign too unbelieveable.

Anyway, I liked being a part of Commoragh for a while.
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PostSubject: Re: FINALLY: Path of the Archon   Mon Jan 19 2015, 19:12

@Azdrubael wrote:
I rate it very poorly actually.

Compared to the brilliant series about craftworld Eldar these books just doesnt bring anything really satisfying, but insted delivers C class sci-fi with villans speaking mighty phrases to the imaginary audience (which there isnt often).

Like the Incubus yell at the almost empty and slaughtered Eldar cave - the blood fued is not forgotten, awwrhhh, grrrr! Yeah man, why did you even tell this, they all kinda dead...and so on...

In short craftworld series explored what is already established about Eldar in detail, enriching the backgound, while Andy Chambers just tried to add something with little regard to what is known about DE.

He just have to tell about Slaanesh worshipping Archon, even when it is kinda set that warp-meddling is out of law. Well, in the first book you will see that it isnt, anyone can do it, and to hell with Vect.

Vect is just flying in a giant vessel projecting his giant face over the audience....sic!

Characters are one-dimensional and their motivation puzzles a lot. I know a phrase, if you want to be evil, you have to be very smart. Well, characters in the series arent smart, so they kinda fall being evil.

Overall a lot of little mistakes breaks immersions and i stopped reading at the middle of second book. The only good part about these books is cover-art, it is gorgeous.

I feel exactly the same as Azdrubael. These books lacked so much that I had expected and the characters almost felt too human.

If it's a trilogy and I stop reading in the second book the that's a testament to how much I didn't enjoy it, as usually I am fine to power through.

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Lady Malys
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PostSubject: Re: FINALLY: Path of the Archon   Mon Feb 23 2015, 04:29

Quote :

There are few books which really appeal to me and even less which I really enjoy. Today, I finished Path of the Archon and I think the whol trilogy was amazing, just exactly my taste.

To be honest, when I bought Path of the Renegade I did not expect too much and expected an alright story which happens to be about Dark Eldar, but it was much more than that.
For me, it was a believeable and coherent world with all its details and a lot of interesting characters and nasty ideas.

The more I progressed through the trilogy the more interesting I found the books to be and Chambers constantly added new things to the story which kept the story fresh and gave me the impression of a real, living world.

The schematizing nature of Yllithian, Malixian's colourful character and Bellathonis with his own agenda.
My favourite character was Morr. Initially, he was only one killer among many, but the more we learneed about him, the more it seemed that he was a tragic monster/hero more than anything else.

And seeing the world from the point of few from a Talos Pain Engine and a Chronos Parasite Engine? I love it.
Morr, Motely, Vhi and Cho were unique characters who grew to me with time.


I can understand why many didn't seem to like the books, but I'm glad Chambers did it the way he did. I don't want to get explained how alien and abstract commoragh looks like, I've read more than enough H.P. Lovecraft Cthulhu stories for that.

I also tihnk that you cannot compare the books, as every book showed a different facet of the Dark Eldar (which he also mentioned in the epilogue).
Imo, the ending was excellent and PotA was one of the few books which didn't give me the impression that the ending was rushed and not fleshed out, it came all nicely together.

Btw. I actually liked the portrait of Vect. I just watched Death Note and I find it pleasently refreshing to see a master manipulator/planner without beign too unbelieveable.

Anyway, I liked being a part of Commoragh for a while.

We seem to have enjoyed the books in very similar ways Very Happy These were books about Eldar which I could really appreciate, in part because they made good use of existing lore and Andy Chambers knows the 40k Universe more than well enough to extrapolate in ways that mesh with it.

I liked the way that we could see characters develop and change over time, and that there were different levels of power and competence - Kharbyr being an insight to what happens if you're not an Archon, Dracon or other powerful individual, or even very good at anything. Pretty much every Dark Eldar faction got some exposure (except Beastmasters, I think, but that's not a criticism) but in an organic way, so it didn't feel like crossing off a list ("Scourges - check - Wych Cult - check"). Instead I felt as if I got to see some of the scenery and culture of the Dark City, which is what I want from a good Dark Eldar story. The excursions into other Eldar cultures were just as good, I wanted to see more, but of course these are primarily Dark Eldar books. What was nice was how seeing these other cultures both illuminated them, and provided contrast to what Dark Eldar are and do.

Cavash and I differ on the opinion of the characters being 'too Human' (he knows this, we've talked about it Very Happy) - I honestly don't see it. To me they are quite Dark Eldar enough, and I enjoy seeing their schemes unfold / unravel and how they relate to each other. I would happily read another trilogy like this. Hint.


I particularly liked Yllithian, Sindiel (whom I wanted to both punch and hug, sometimes at the same time), Bellathonis, Morr interacting with Motley - everyone interacting with Motley; I think he might be my favourite overall. A certain fan-wielding Archon makes an appearance. And as for Vect, the old bastard comes across as Vectian as he needs to be, which is what he does.

I thought the characterisation was spot on. I would define well-made characters in these ways:

+ Could I talk to these people, is there enough personality to answer? - yes, although possibly from a distance as a lot of them are quite stabby.
+ Do they have motivations and goals? - Yes.
+ Do the above make sense in context? - Yes.
+ Is there enough context provided for that question to make sense? - Yes.
+ Are they individual enough to be told apart? - Yes.

In short I enjoyed visiting Commorragh - still wouldn't want to live there though Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: FINALLY: Path of the Archon   Sun Apr 05 2015, 12:40

I read the first one, the Renegade, which was nice.

But I'm really, really struggling with the second book (the Incubus one). I've been on the brink of putting it down and not picking it up anymore more than once. The way it's written, I can't get into it.. Every 2 pages they set a scene, and then when I get into the scene (and by the time they give you some information of what's going on, or when things start to move forward) they skip to the next. The book has been nothing but sequences of this over and over, and it's really annoying. Not my kind of writing.
The Pain Engines scenes are a good example of this. I don't like that feeling of reading and then having to assume that 'in the end this will probably lead up to something'.

I hope the third one is better. Although I doubt I'll read it after this..
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