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 How do you deal with a player that's no fun?

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Wych
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PostSubject: How do you deal with a player that's no fun?   Sun Feb 02 2014, 02:57

So I had a pick up game at my game store last night, and you know, I was there to have fun. We exchanged some small talk and the like but the game went downhill from there.

First turn he penetrates my venom with a sniper rifle. He rolled a 4. "It explodes." "Nah brah, it's immobilized." I had to explain to him and showed him the rulebook that it's only AP2 when wounding. And after that he treated me like I was cheating him all game. Doesn't help when he charged my bloodbrides he lost four iron hands bikers at initiative six. I can understand him, being upset at poor rolling, but again, I was getting that vibe like he thought I was cheating him. Me personally, If I lose some amazing unit in an oddly terrible way I laugh. It's a game afterall. One of random chance.

So that was two hours of unpleasant hobbying. Afterwards I played a game with someone I knew who actually has fun with the game.

Anyone have any tips or tricks to make games against players who apparently hate the game more bearable? Pick up games are hit or miss in my area.

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lcfr
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PostSubject: Re: How do you deal with a player that's no fun?   Sun Feb 02 2014, 06:23

Them's the breaks with this game...me and a pal rolled into his lgs today for a change (we live about an hour apart, he's usually in my area for gaming/work/whatnot though) and what should be a relaxing morning turns into a really stressful affair as we're forced to basically fend off the local gamers there who think that it's a good idea to just bombard us with tips and advice and idiotic stories (and, of course, they're all carrying an obscene amount of gut weight exposed by all too small graphic tees).

This hobby is rife with the socially handicapped and downright obnoxious, the trick is to reach out and find the good souls, and stick to em. Deal with the awful at the tournament scene when you have to play them.
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ecam
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PostSubject: Re: How do you deal with a player that's no fun?   Sun Feb 02 2014, 07:48

my hobby center has put a ban on side seat gameing unles you invite some 1 or ask for help with a rule. they have allso put a stop to quiting a game part way though if your loseing as its no fun for the person whos winning. maybe have a chat with your hobby center to implement something like this. as for people who are bad sportsmen tell them straight if they start acting up that your there for fun chances are you will not play them agin anyways as they are bad players.
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PostSubject: Re: How do you deal with a player that's no fun?   Sun Feb 02 2014, 07:51

I am currently running into this situation now. I recently moved to a new state and thus had to find a new gaming group. The few times I have gone in there, I have to correct a few of the gamers I have played with some of the rules that my army (DE/Eldar) has or some of the basic BRB rules. I feel I am perceived as "that guy" in the store now because I feel they feel I came into their store and began changing rules, when in reality I was only playing by them, correctly.

As far as unhappy people, I have to say it is rather common with me and the Dark Eldar army. In the two areas I have lived and played, not a lot of people are familiar with the Dark Eldar codex. "You ALWAYS wound on a 4+?!" "Venoms shoot how many times?" It goes on and on. When someone hasn't encountered our codex, I definitely get the feeling they think I am lying and cheating. Often people wonder why others consider our codex subpar or the infinite wisdom on the internet thinks our codex sucks or is only good for helping out Seer Council.

In situations like above and the one you described, I try to be calm and just explain the rules clearly. You played it correctly and explained the rule clearly to your opponent, cant really do much more. Some people have entirely too big of egos when they play this game, and I think the guy in your example had his hurt a little bit. Feel confident in knowing you played it right and know that not everyone responds to things that way and generally people are glad they know the correct rule and wont continue to play it wrongly. But, you will always run into people like your opponent. Take solace in knowing you played it right, explained the rule, and showed them in the BRB where it was.
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PostSubject: Re: How do you deal with a player that's no fun?   Sun Feb 02 2014, 08:17

I have very similar experience as Yeeman. The general ignorance of DE abilities makes ppl go WHAAAA? Cannot blame them too much as DE are probably the least played army. In my group, the guys are great as a people, but, they tend to overreact. So I had to endure some battles where I brough VERY suboptimal builds. I would not even call them fun builds, because they were downright stupid. I beat them anyway though, because they always had a very defeatist attitude even before the battle. Luckily for me the new Tyranids came out and another guy from the group switched from Tau to DE. After some battles they are finally starting to understand the strengths and weaknesses of DE and the meta is shifting towards meeting us. But I have to tell you that they did not like me much when I told them to stop whining and start thinking. :-) But I was right. One guy already expressed himself in the way that he understands what I meant and I hope the others will follow.

As for rules, luckily. I never had any problems. Of course there are disagreements, but they are solved by a roll in the worst case scenario.

On the other hand - we have a small tourneys at local store, which are meant as fun games. Although there is a guy that brings two Wave Serpents and a Wraithknight. I am refusing to play against him, giving him an automatic win. Just trying to make the experience as unpleasant as he makes it for others.
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PostSubject: Re: How do you deal with a player that's no fun?   Sun Feb 02 2014, 10:03

I've been there many times in the 20+ years I've played this game. Unfortunetly, 6th edition brought in more problems then the later editions. Also, each dex has its special rules that not everyone knows. I've been thru everything y'all have posted and found that making my garage into a game room and just inviting people you have fun with has worked out for me. I know we all can't do this. Also doesn't fix every problem. I still have a few fellow gamers that have that blasted book glued to their hand every game. Contridictions happen on a weekly basis but we work thru them. My main grief came when they would call and ask what army I was playing and they would show with tailored lists, so.....I stopped telling them or would just bring a different army, boy did that cause problems like, you said you were bringing your elder so I made my list to fight them, now I'm gonna lose! Or I thought you would bring your necrons and we could team up, playing against your sisters of battle sucks.

My favorite happened at one of the last Ard boyz. I came up with a player of tau. He had never played against DE, our book was still new at the time. Being a good player even tho it was a tourney, I took him through a trip of my army. Showed him what each unit had and what they did. I didn't want any whining about I don't know your army. He was a great guy and we proceded. However at the end of turn 3 he wanted to concede, saying he just couldn't win. I stopped him a told him to not be so down and just enjoy hiself, it is a game after all. We finished it and I did destroy him but he laughed about it. The our next battle came up and the guy he drew turned out to be a power geek, offering no assistance and made it very unfun for him. He commented on how he would rather play people like me who are trying to have fun and not be such a fine gentleman. At the end of the tourney he shook my hand and thanked me for making it more barable. Funny part was I drew the fine gentleman and slaughtered his yellow marine list and the whining cominced. I reached my hand out for good sport and he laughed and walked away. Later I found he was telling everyone I cheated , which I didn't so I challenged him to a rematch, same list and mission and he refused and stomped off. Now he is one of my regulars and knows how to play, plus his apology was great.

The other ways if they have already started whining, I pick up my army and let someone else have them plus no back seat players are aloud to coach during the games.

Whew! Nice vent, thanks

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PostSubject: Re: How do you deal with a player that's no fun?   Tue Feb 04 2014, 00:20

In a recent team game I was playing against Gray Knights and Space Marines. The vanilla Marine player moved his Rhino 6", disembarked 6" - and the proceeded to move another 6". I asked if they were running, and both players told me flatly that's how disembarking works in 6th. Um, no. I would have let him run (probably), but not get a full 6" extra movement. After a nice discussion and looking at the very clear text in the BRB, all was well again.

My problem is that I know from posts in a local Facebook gaming group we all belong to that these guys play all the time. I'm supposed to believe that I'm the first one that called them out on this? The rest of the game proceeded with no problems, but I'm still left wondering...
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PostSubject: Re: How do you deal with a player that's no fun?   Tue Feb 04 2014, 01:05

Yeah this has turned into a bit of a venting thread, but that's not bad as it's something we all deal with. I'm a very laid back guy, so the last thing I want to get worked up over is a game. Two grown men playing with toys does not seem like something that should raise your blood pressure. Unless you're one of their wives.

And part of it is on the ignorance of Dark Eldar like Aurynn said. I've played three players here so far that could not understand night vision negates night fighting. Only one of them was rude about it. But to me it's all about the fun of the game. I'm certainly not an expert on every codex, and I don't want to be. When a tau player says, "I'm using his nova charge to yadda yadda." It sounds all made up to me. But if you treat your opponent like he's cheating because he understands certain rules your not familiar with, you're a, well, I never looked at the policy on profanity for the site, so I'll leave it to your discretion.

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PostSubject: Re: How do you deal with a player that's no fun?   Fri Feb 07 2014, 13:20

One my friend, who played Ultwe themed army (very cool, by the way) is a nice guy to play, he has lot of fun. B u t h e d o i n h i s t u r n s s o o o s l o w. When we last met we done only 3 turns. In about 3 hours! It`s so annoying...

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PostSubject: Re: How do you deal with a player that's no fun?   Fri Feb 07 2014, 16:10

@NHBandit69 wrote:
In a recent team game I was playing against Gray Knights and Space Marines. The vanilla Marine player moved his Rhino 6", disembarked 6" - and the proceeded to move another 6". I asked if they were running, and both players told me flatly that's how disembarking works in 6th. Um, no. I would have let him run (probably), but not get a full 6" extra movement. After a nice discussion and looking at the very clear text in the BRB, all was well again.

My problem is that I know from posts in a local Facebook gaming group we all belong to that these guys play all the time. I'm supposed to believe that I'm the first one that called them out on this? The rest of the game proceeded with no problems, but I'm still left wondering...

This is probably the worst kind. Those cheaters who "try their luck" and see if someone buys it, and if they don't, they act like nothing happened.
I met someone like this, and due to my tricky memory he managed to make me allocate wounds on wyches instead of my shadowfield archon, and it was only my second game (of 40k) and I somehow did believe him that I must do that, bringing down a few of my wyches who failed their 4++ instead of having reliably tanked them by the archon.
Later that game he told me that no need to roll for Nightfight, it just comes in automatically at turn 7, but I at least had prepared that someone could try to cheat me when it comes to night fighting rules, and I said that I don't think that's true.
He said something that I couldn't make out but didn't protest at all when I opened the rulebook and picked up a dice. Night fighting didn't come but at least I got to roll if it did.

Is usually worst if you only figure out after the game what had happened, makes you feel humiliated and overly cautious. Haven't seen that guy another time, but I still keep an eye on if he appears again at the same place.
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PostSubject: Re: How do you deal with a player that's no fun?   Fri Feb 07 2014, 17:35

@NHBandit69 wrote:
My problem is that I know from posts in a local Facebook gaming group we all belong to that these guys play all the time. I'm supposed to believe that I'm the first one that called them out on this? The rest of the game proceeded with no problems, but I'm still left wondering...

I've found that most of the players I've ever encountered playing Fantasy or 40K were not great on their rules knowledge, it may well have been legitimate ignorance on their part (with a dash of wishful thinking, perhaps).

I make it a point to be at least a little skeptical when someone is spouting rules that seem questionable or that I'm not immediately in agreement with - a quick reference to the rulebook often sorts it out though.
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PostSubject: Re: How do you deal with a player that's no fun?   Sat Feb 08 2014, 01:16

On rules being borked by players. I recently moved, and though I haven't had much time to play, had some rules discrepancies with the players in my new area. Not anything overly wrong as the rules could be interpreted the way they were playing. However, when I pointed out the rule and attendant FAQ's and had them read it, and a couple other rules besides, they altered the way they were playing. One was that the buildings were allowed to fire their weapons even if unoccupied, another was moving through there own models, also the gun emplacement being fired as an emplaced weapon, and last was the Reaver Jet Bike line was done by actual movement path rather than straight line movement. Misplayed rules are not always because a player is trying to get one over on you, it may just be that the area they came from played/interpreted it differently.

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PostSubject: Re: How do you deal with a player that's no fun?   Sun Feb 09 2014, 09:43

Interpretation is so important. I put a fair amount of trust in my opponent understanding his army better than I do.
Have just found out something potentially quite annoying. I have just come second in a tournament. This by itself is an amazing result. I am very pleased with how I played. But something about one of my losses didn't feel right...
I won 4/6 games. I lost heavily on a scouring mission to a Space Wolf player that used LOTS of Fenrisian Wolves to claim objectives. I held one objective to his 2. I do a little bit of research tonight and I find out, to my disgust, that Fenrisian Wolves can NEVER claim objectives. EVER. Which means, I won that game.
On top of this, the player was a difficult chap with odd rules interpretation.
EG- "If you shoot assault weapons, you can't assault me."
or
I resolve 2 power weapon wounds with my Khymare inv. save by rolling 2 dice getting a simultaneous 1 and a six. He says "That kills your inv save guy and then the next model." I beg to differ saying "I think he passed 1 save but the Khymarae is now dead." I tried to speed roll a little and it winds up costing me 5 minutes of back and forth BS.
Constant game stopping with niggles like this has been consistent in all 3 games I have had with this fella throughout my history at the local game club. I never want to play this guy again unless I have the misfortune of being drawn to play in a future tournament. And I may just flat out refuse even then.

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PostSubject: Re: How do you deal with a player that's no fun?   Tue Feb 18 2014, 02:38

I pretty much got into 40k (from warmachine) because my LGS crew are so awesome. They're all really supportive and there to have fun, but there is still a decent competitive spirit.

I actually kept away from the group for a while because they didn't play the game I liked (I drove 45 minutes to play WM/H instead of 5 to play 40k). Then I realized I just really like playing games with fun people, and I don't care too much what it is.


My advice? Slaughter his family in front of him, then torture him until his will to live breaks... OH CRAP! Uhhh, I mean, don't play with that dude again. Simple. Or tell him he was being a twat.

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PostSubject: Re: How do you deal with a player that's no fun?   Wed Feb 19 2014, 07:40

Well said! Nothing like brutality...uhh brute honesty, I mean

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PostSubject: Re: How do you deal with a player that's no fun?   Fri Feb 21 2014, 21:29

The biggest piece of advice I can give is always try to have fun and always talk it over. Some people don't want to talk; however, for those that are willing to do a post-game discussion, it can really help to mend the beating. Being upfront as well as admitting our own errors when they happen is all part of learning an extremely complex game.

I have yet to play a game of 6th edition where someone doesn't have to look something up since they can't remember how to play a specific rule under specific scenario (i.e. flatting out a vehicle means different things to different vehicles).

Again though - not everyone wants to listen let alone talk and other guys just want to be "that guy" and get all butthurt when they lose. Everyone else though can always turn a defeat into a learning experience when they realize their opponent is there to have fun.
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PostSubject: Re: How do you deal with a player that's no fun?   Sun Feb 23 2014, 05:59

Wow, I kinda feel sorry for those of you who have to deal with the bad players. In one regard I'm lucky that I have yet to encounter one, but in another I'm unlucky. I like to know the rules of games I play. When 6th dropped we had a touring the next week. I ran my DA and turbo-boosted during scout move, legal in 5th but not 6th. Normally not a big deal but we had rolled hammer and anvil. That mistake allowed my Death wing to deep strike turn one unearingly close to his deployment and slaughter him within a few turns. After the tourny I was able to sit down and go cover to cover a couple of times. I pointed out my mistake and we both laughed about it, now though I feel like they look at me like I'm that guy. As long as its not a codex rule I can normally answer it in good time. Every now and then someone will make a snide comment, but I just tell them fair is fair
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PostSubject: Re: How do you deal with a player that's no fun?   Sun Feb 23 2014, 12:53

Well Considering this has become a vent thread I will now share a most unpleasant game I had yesterday against some Chaos Space Marines.

I hadn't ever played this guy before so I didn't know what to expect and he was looking for game so the manager (who is a great guy) suggested I should take up the challenge and I said fine. He only had 1000pts on him so I said okay let me make up a list. My list was well rounded 2 warrior units in raiders 2 Wyches in Venoms a Haemonculus with some incubi in a raider and some scourges 1000pts on the dot with the way I did my upgrades. The I see his list and well my day got got a whole lot worse, he just casually takes 3 Hell Turkeys out and i'm just like WTF are you seriously taking 3 of those in 1000pts and he looks at me like nothing is wrong and just says yeah. He also had a Terminator armored Chaos lord and 3 20 man cultist blobs. We already set up mission (The relic) and terrain and stuff so to late to back out.

He has turn one, at least the Hell Turkeys are in  reserve right now, he runs everything forward toward the objective and passes to me. My turn 1 he stupidly put the Chaos Lord in front of the cultist he was with, one dark lance shot and one failed invul equals first blood and warlord for me and he stats whinging about dumb wound allocation and op lance then trash talks about how he still is going to table me he has 1 cultist blob left at the end of my shooting and now its his turn two.

Start of his turn two... no Hell Turkeys come on more whinging about rigged dice and how stupid this game is (never use store dice always bring your own) meanwhile I am trying to be sympathetic to the three Hell Turkey player but somehow its my fault. Needless to say he was tabled on turn two without the hell drakes seeing the board and I even offered a rematch but he just pack up and left after accusing me of cheating and using rigged dice more.

Well thats my vent chances are I will never see them again and hope this is the case.

End vent

Edit: Found a spelling and error and it was annoying me
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PostSubject: Re: How do you deal with a player that's no fun?   Mon Feb 24 2014, 00:47

Funny enough, I got into it with another player about rending a vehicle not being Ap2. He argued me up and down it was. I even said, "Look man, it's not a big deal, I'll remove the model this time. Just please Google it when you get home." He still refused. Luckily he miscalculated and the hit didn't even penetrate, so we played the game normally therafter. I almost want to change the topic to, "How do you tell a player they are wrong without making their butthole hurt?"

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PostSubject: Re: How do you deal with a player that's no fun?   Mon Feb 24 2014, 00:52

Very rarely can you tell someone their wrong without them getting butt hurt or having them accuse you of trying to cheat
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PostSubject: Re: How do you deal with a player that's no fun?   Mon Feb 24 2014, 06:51

3 helldrakes in 1000 points... first, congrats on smashing the d-bag before he could roll hot enough to deploy that nonsense. At our club, we say that 3 drakes on the table is the point where you can smack the guy in the face!
Second and this may or may not ring true for others around the world, but CSM players lean on helldrakes too much. It is predictable that they will pack at least one. Perhaps deservedly, the dragon is very good, but generally to win a game, grabbing objectives and holding them helps. It sounds like he left about 150 points, if that, in the kitty for the exact thing that counts at the end of a game. Dumb. Your list was the perfect DE TAC list and look how well it fared!
Thirdly, I have found 2/3 CSM players I play against regularly to be quite arrogant. They are keen to boast how hot their product is and how awfully/quickly I am going to lose. Perhaps this army attracts narcissists and idiots alike. Overconfidence is typically their undoing when I run away with the win!

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PostSubject: Re: How do you deal with a player that's no fun?   Mon Feb 24 2014, 09:05

Initially I wanted to smack him in the face but I restrained myself and just tried to make sure I had fun with the game. He also had a Sorcerer but it was dis allowed by the manager for not at all resembling a sorcerer (the condition was terrible) and we had deployed so I didn't remove anything to compensate for his loss of some points. The Chaos lord was really kitted out and I think even cultist may have had some upgrades of some description, I don't know CSM codex very well.

We have other CSM players who are great to play against (they only ever run 1 Hell Turkey) so some people just create a bad image for an army which creates the stereotype of all CSM are d-bags that run 3 Hell Turkeys which for the majority just isn't true.

Now to keep this on point players that are no fun suck to play against so don't play against them but if it is unavoidable just make sure you have fun and just ignore them for the most part.
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PostSubject: Re: How do you deal with a player that's no fun?   Mon Feb 24 2014, 13:32

CSM is my second army, which I rarely play, but it's true a Heldrake is pretty much an auto-include. Maybe not at 1000 points but it's the best unit in the codex and it's simply good at everything. Leaving it out would be akin (not quite though as the power level isn't anywhere close) to leaving venoms out of our lists. But bringing three at 1000? I'm glad you wiped him off the table before his Heldrakes came out. If he were smart you'd have taught him a lesson about points on the table and reserves. But clearly he's not and he didn't.

I've noticed most players that aren't fun to play against tend to boast, are way too competitive, and generally run THOSE units. Most of the bad experiences I've had come from Tau and Eldar, and it's generally when they're not creaming me (when I'm actually providing them with a good match or *gasp* even winning), which they generally do with impunity. I used to think all Tau players were D-Bags until I found a guy who had been playing them since they were released. He runs competitive lists, but he plays to have fun, and doesn't just spam the most absurd units in the codex.

On that note, I've never met an Ork player who isn't a hoot to play against.

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PostSubject: Re: How do you deal with a player that's no fun?   Mon Feb 24 2014, 16:27

I've come across one orc d-bag, and one csm that only brags when he runs his death guard, but he's undefeated with his deathguard so I over look it for that army
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PostSubject: Re: How do you deal with a player that's no fun?   Mon Feb 24 2014, 18:40

I just had to deal with a player like this at an event. Heading into the final round of the event i was on course to finish in the Top 3, I ended up playing a guard player. He argued with me about how barrage works, i showed him the section in the rules, he still thought you had to fire indirectly and full scatter to have the hits allocated from the center of the template. Wher ended up rolling off on it and it was in my favor. He tried to argue about how vehicle squadrons work and kept me from wrecking both his manticores with one blast, I decided not to argue that point since i still had three ravagers to finish the second one off. He demanded to see my codex to make sure my list was correct. He tried to claim that Marbo could go to ground although he is fearless. I still ended up winning as he had 4 models left on the board at the end of my turn 2 and they were falling back.

When it came to announce final result i ended up about 5-6th and i looked at my scoring, the guard player marked me a total of 5 points off for sportsmanship/army composition and i ended up 7 points behind the winner.
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