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Elzadar
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PostSubject: Designing 40k 6.5   Tue Jan 21 2014, 17:00

My gaming group wants to adjust some rules to tweak the balance of 40k and make it more fun. These are the house rules we've come up with:

Quote :
Units coming from normal reserves are allowed to assault in the same turn, this excludes special reserves (e.g. deep strike, outflank, flank march and webway portals)

Infiltrating units are allowed to assault in the first turn


Units are allowed to assault out of a non-assault vehicle if the vehicle does not move that turn. A charge done in this way counts as a disordered charge.


If a non-assault transport vehicle gets destroyed then units that were within the transport are still allowed to assault, however this will count as a disordered charge.


Units are allowed to move their charge distance, even if it is not enough to make the charge.


Ignores Cover does a -2 modifier to the target's cover save, templates still ignore cover completely.


Units with the Interceptor special rule need to declare in their turn that they aregoing to intercept. They are not allowed to shoot that turn, but can shoot during the enemy turn as described in the rules.


Tau and Eldar are Allies of Convenience, not Battle Brothers.

Feedback would be appreciated

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PostSubject: Re: Designing 40k 6.5   Tue Jan 21 2014, 17:22

Elzadar wrote:
Units are allowed to move their charge distance, even if it is not enough to make the charge.
Does this mean my Ork Mobz could declare charges every turn against non shooty units in your backfield for an additional 2d6 movement every turn?

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PostSubject: Re: Designing 40k 6.5   Tue Jan 21 2014, 17:32

Thor665 wrote:
Elzadar wrote:
Units are allowed to move their charge distance, even if it is not enough to make the charge.
Does this mean my Ork Mobz could declare charges every turn against non shooty units in your backfield for an additional 2d6 movement every turn?

No because the rules already say they have to be able to reach it before declaring the charge.

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PostSubject: Re: Designing 40k 6.5   Tue Jan 21 2014, 18:28

So they do, I'd always thought that was covered in the 'if you fail to make the charge you don't move' thing.

So what's the purpose of allowing the extra movement then? Just to help run down jetbikes or something?

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PostSubject: Re: Designing 40k 6.5   Tue Jan 21 2014, 19:18

Thor665 wrote:
So they do, I'd always thought that was covered in the 'if you fail to make the charge you don't move' thing.

So what's the purpose of allowing the extra movement then? Just to help run down jetbikes or something?

because people complain it does not make sense they do not get to move at all. It also provides some sort of compensation for the overwatch they had to soak up.

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PostSubject: Re: Designing 40k 6.5   Thu Jan 23 2014, 18:01

Rules update:
Quote :

Units coming from normal reserves are allowed to assault in the same turn, this excludes special reserves (e.g. deep strike, outflank, flank march, daemon portals and webway portals)

A unit can charge after embarking from a vehicle, however this will count as a disordered charge unless it is an assault vehicle.

If a non-assault transport vehicle gets destroyed then units that were within the transport are still allowed to assault, however this will count as a disordered charge.

Units are allowed to move the highest die rolled for charge distance, even if it is not enough to make the charge.

Ignores Cover does a -2 modifier to the target's cover save, templates still ignore cover completely.

When a challenger declares a challenge, the opponent must first choose a challengee. If the challengee has a higher leadership value than the challenger, then the challenger has to take a leadership test. When failed he is not allowed to issue a challenge this turn.

Assault range is 4"+1D6, if you assault through difficult terrain you throw 2 dice and discard the highest.

Rules to be playtested:
First roll a d6 and then choose a Warlord Trait Table

Infiltrating units are allowed to assault in the first turn

Vehicle Damage Table:
1-2 Crew Shaken
3 Crew Stunned
4 Weapon Destroyed
5 Immobilised
6 Wrecked
7 Explodes!

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PostSubject: Re: Designing 40k 6.5   Thu Jan 23 2014, 20:36

Sorry to play a little of devil's advocate here.....

Units coming from normal reserves are allowed to assault in the same turn, this excludes special reserves (e.g. deep strike, outflank, flank march, daemon portals and webway portals)
I think some people might argue that Outflank and Webway Portals are two that you SHOULD be allowed to assault from. Maybe not Deep Strike, but certainly the others.

A unit can charge after embarking from a vehicle, however this will count as a disordered charge unless it is an assault vehicle.
Ok, but what exactly would be the BENEFIT of open-topped if everyone can assault?

If a non-assault transport vehicle gets destroyed then units that were within the transport are still allowed to assault, however this will count as a disordered charge.
This confuses me. So, if the vehicle is destroyed the unit that was inside can charge? But if it were destroyed, that would mean its the opponent's turn, so in your next turn of course you'd be able to charge because you're not in a transport anymore (unless you're pinned of course).

Units are allowed to move the highest die rolled for charge distance, even if it is not enough to make the charge.
I'd say either use the lowest die, or use half the rolled distance. No sense leaving this TOO open to being abused for extra movement.

Ignores Cover does a -2 modifier to the target's cover save, templates still ignore cover completely.
I'd be happy with that, but would suggest making it more complicated. Make it like FNP, and give various degrees of Ignores Cover (Ignore Cover 1, Ignore Cover 2, etc)

When a challenger declares a challenge, the opponent must first choose a challengee. If the challengee has a higher leadership value than the challenger, then the challenger has to take a leadership test. When failed he is not allowed to issue a challenge this turn.
Uh.....I'll be honest that one seems a tad pointless. Ok, the idea if to stop Squad Leaders tying up beefy HQ Characters, but end of the day I think that's half of what challenges are for. I think you'd be better off saying that Challenges can only be issued by the model with the highest Ld in a unit (so a Lord alongside a Sybarite would only be able to challenge with the Lord).

Assault range is 4"+1D6, if you assault through difficult terrain you throw 2 dice and discard the highest.
Having this contraditcs your own "failec charge" rule which talks about using the highest die rolled. If that were the case I'd suggest using half the rolled range instead.
HOWEVER I would say this was not a great one though, mainly because it reduces the effective range of combat-centric armies. Maybe make it Initiative + 1d6"? Or something similar?


Rules to be playtested:
First roll a d6 and then choose a Warlord Trait Table
So you roll then have the choice of three results? One per table? To be honest I'd be inclined against this. That makes the odds of specific results far lower, and takes out the randomness of the traits, which I think is their main point. Sure, some are useless for us, but that's warfare. It's weird and crazy and silly stuff happens (and Generals do silly things).

Infiltrating units are allowed to assault in the first turn
Against. Strongly. The last thing I want is a unit of Chaos Space Marine Chosen pounding into my lines turn one and completely screwing the game over. The rule against this exists for a reason, to stop specific units from completely tying up an enemy force in turn one. I remember when that used to be allowed in older editions, and it would completely screw up the game, both tactically and from the enjoyment perspective.

Vehicle Damage Table:
1-2 Crew Shaken
3 Crew Stunned
4 Weapon Destroyed
5 Immobilised
6 Wrecked
7 Explodes!
I have to ask, does this still apply to Penetrating Hits only? Are you retaining Glancing Hits/Hull Points? Because if you're intending that Glancing Hits will also use this chart, all you're doing is making it so that one lucky Space Marine can shoot down my Raider (whereas at the moment he can only dent it).
If it IS penetrating hits only, then I really don't bee much different in terms of the current table.




In my opinion.


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PostSubject: Re: Designing 40k 6.5   Fri Jan 24 2014, 00:52

Squidmaster wrote:
Sorry to play a little of devil's advocate here.....

Units coming from normal reserves are allowed to assault in the same turn, this excludes special reserves (e.g. deep strike, outflank, flank march, daemon portals and webway portals)
I think some people might argue that Outflank and Webway Portals are two that you SHOULD be allowed to assault from. Maybe not Deep Strike, but certainly the others.

Most people agree with you here, but I think it will alter the game too much for houserules. I might change my mind later on however.

Squidmaster wrote:
[color=#FF0000]A unit can charge after embarking from a vehicle, however this will count as a disordered charge unless it is an assault vehicle.
Ok, but what exactly would be the BENEFIT of open-topped if everyone can assault?

To not lose your attack bonus when you assault.

Quote :
If a non-assault transport vehicle gets destroyed then units that were within the transport are still allowed to assault in their next assault phace, however this will count as a disordered charge.

Units are allowed to move halve the charge distance, even if it is not enough to make the charge.


happy?

Assault range is 4"+1D6, if you assault through difficult terrain you throw 2 dice and discard the highest.
Having this contraditcs your own "failec charge" rule which talks about using the highest die rolled. If that were the case I'd suggest using half the rolled range instead.
HOWEVER I would say this was not a great one though, mainly because it reduces the effective range of combat-centric armies. Maybe make it Initiative + 1d6"? Or something similar?
[/quote]

Already heard similar comments. However this is on average better than what we have now. It just makes the chances for rolling extremely high and extremely low less.

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PostSubject: Re: Designing 40k 6.5   Fri Jan 24 2014, 00:52

Updated ruleset:

Quote :
Units coming from normal reserves are allowed to assault in the same turn, this excludes special reserves (e.g. deep strike, outflank, flank march, daemon portals and webway portals)

A unit can charge after embarking from a vehicle, however this will count as a disordered charge unless it is an assault vehicle.

If a non-assault transport vehicle gets destroyed then units that were within the transport are still allowed to assault in their next assault phace, however this will count as a disordered charge.

Units are allowed to move halve the charge distance, even if it is not enough to make the charge.

Ignores Cover does a -2 modifier to the target's cover save, templates still ignore cover completely.

a challengee can decline a challenge without penalties if he has a higher leadership value than the challenger

Assault range is 4"+1D6, if you assault through difficult terrain you throw 2 dice and discard the highest.


Quote :
Rules to be playtested:
First roll a d6 and then choose a Warlord Trait Table

Infiltrating units are allowed to assault in the first turn

When a challenger declares a challenge, the opponent must first choose a challengee. If the challengee has a higher leadership value than the challenger, then the challenger has to take a leadership test. When failed he is not allowed to issue a challenge this turn.

Vehicle Damage Table:
1-2 Crew Shaken
3 Crew Stunned
4 Weapon Destroyed
5 Immobilised
6 Wrecked
7 Explodes!

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PostSubject: Re: Designing 40k 6.5   Fri Jan 24 2014, 09:17

I'd say it looks better than what you wrote earlier, however there is one thing I'm quite confused about:

Quote :
Vehicle Damage Table:
1-2 Crew Shaken
3 Crew Stunned
4 Weapon Destroyed
5 Immobilised
6 Wrecked
7 Explodes!

I mean, how exactly are one supposed to roll a 7 on a D6?

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Dang! I was hoping Tyranids followed the Pokemon naming idea. A big Carnifex running around just yelling "Carnifex! Carni-Carnifex!" followed by a squad of termagants all saying "Termagant" to each other.
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PostSubject: Re: Designing 40k 6.5   Fri Jan 24 2014, 14:03

Saintspirit wrote:
I'd say it looks better than what you wrote earlier, however there is one thing I'm quite confused about:

Quote :
Vehicle Damage Table:
1-2 Crew Shaken
3 Crew Stunned
4 Weapon Destroyed
5 Immobilised
6 Wrecked
7 Explodes!

I mean, how exactly are one supposed to roll a 7 on a D6?

AP 1 and 2

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PostSubject: Re: Designing 40k 6.5   Fri Jan 24 2014, 16:14

Thing is I feel that's not really right, considering that weapons like krak missiles, rokkit lauchas and ion cannons only have ap3, even though they (and similar weapons) should IMO also be able to blow up a vehicle.

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shamroll wrote:
Dang! I was hoping Tyranids followed the Pokemon naming idea. A big Carnifex running around just yelling "Carnifex! Carni-Carnifex!" followed by a squad of termagants all saying "Termagant" to each other.
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PostSubject: Re: Designing 40k 6.5   Fri Jan 24 2014, 17:12

Saintspirit wrote:
Thing is I feel that's not really right, considering that weapons like krak missiles, rokkit lauchas and ion cannons only have ap3, even though they (and similar weapons) should IMO also be able to blow up a vehicle.

That's why I left it for playtesting, see if it works nicely.

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